advice/suggestions on a sweet stout

[Urban_Samurai]

Hi;
So the plan is to do an all-grain BIAB 5gal. batch of a sweet stout,

Grain bill:
6-row malt - 4.5lbs. (44%)
Coffee malt - 2.5lbs. (24%)
Biscuit malt - 2lbs. (19%)
Caramel/Crystal 60 - 0.25lbs.(3%)
Lactose - 1lbs. (10%)

Mash at 150F for 60min
Est. OG - 1.057 (Brewtoad)

Hops bill:
Polaris 0.2oz 60min
Fuggle 0.5oz 15min
Fuggle 0.5oz 5min
Polaris 0.8oz 5min
Fuggle 1.0oz flameout
Polaris 1.0oz flameout

Est. IBU - 33
IBU/OG - 0.55 (balanced)

Yeast:
Whitbread Ale (Wyeast 1099)

Est. FG - 1.017
Est. ABV - 5.2%

Additions:
Cocoa Powder 4oz boil 10min
Cocoa nibs 6oz 2ndary 7 days
Vanilla bean 1 bean 2ndary 7 days

Looking for a chocolate Mint cookie flavour. Used the lactose to combat the bitter of the cocoa powder and nibs, the vanilla bean to smooth out the chocolate.

Any help would be appreciated. Mainly I would like to know if it'll work towards what I want.

 

[Urban_Samurai]

bump

 

[badlee]

I think you may want to up your crystal60 to at least 5% for depth of flavour

 

[Urban_Samurai]

will the rest of the grain bill have enough diastalic (?) power to convert with the added crystal?

 

[ong]

I haven't brewed with coffee malt, so I may be out to lunch, but I think that's way too much of it. My understanding is that it's more or less a pale chocolate malt. I would maybe do a lb. of it, and 6-8 oz of roasted barley to bring up the roastiness and color. Just a hunch.

EDIT -- and mash higher, since you want a sweet stout with some body. Might let you dial back the lactose a bit, since you'll get more unfermentables if you mash at 154-156.

 

[Brew_Bro]

I'm with Ong on the coffee malt. I'd cut that back to 1 lbs. Also, I think the cocoa powder is going to add a lot of bitterness and overwhelm your sweetness goal, instead I would add about 2-3 lbs of chocolate malt and maybe .5 lbs or so black patent malt. Will likely bump up your OG a bit, but that wouldn't be a bad thing, would it?

Adding another couple vanilla beans, stripped and quartered, will also help bring a chocolate flavor out of the darker malts, in my experience.

YMMV

Peace

BB

 

[myndflyte]

I'm also with Ong in mashing at a higher temp, probably at least 153F. That'll leave some more complex unfermentables that'll help with the body and sweetness.

 

[Urban_Samurai]

I was using the coffee malt to bring in the choclate flavour without having the bitter coffee-ground flavour I get from chocolate malt.

Will the lactose not give body?

 

[Brew_Bro]

It will add body, as well as sweetness, though I've never used that much in a 5 gal batch. I'll generally tack on 4 to 8 oz. Again, though, that's me.

On the coffee malt, I'm dubious of it bringing in the chocolate flavor so much as bringing in, well, the coffee flavor; 2.5 lbs just seems like a lot to me unless you're specifically going for a coffee-flavored stout.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

will the rest of the grain bill have enough diastalic (?) power to convert with the added crystal?

Crystal malts are already converted and technically don't need to be mashed they would be steeped to extract flavor and sugars already present. We just throw them in the mash for convenience of not wanting to mash most of the grains and steep others. So whether you use more or less it should not affect your diastatic properties if your wort.


Sent from somewhere to someone

 

[myndflyte]

I would almost hold off on the lactose and mash at a higher temperature. Then when it's time to bottle, taste it and add lactose if you think it is needed.

Plus check this thread out: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/there-fix-sweet-stout-too-sweet-do-i-dump-383216/

He used less than 10% lactose and he complained that it was overly sweet. Granted he mashed at 154 F but you may want to be careful with the lactose.

 

[Urban_Samurai]

Ya I though using the lactose would combat the bitter from the cocoa additions but if I mash a little higher temp that will sweeten things a bit. And as you say, if I'm not happy at bottling I can add a little then.

 

[JKaranka]

I'd consider starting from scratch. That's a lot of malt for the pale to convert so it could end up high fg anyway. Add the lactose and it's definitely sweet, plus I'm not sure I'd use that amount of biscuit malt in anything as it's quite overpowering.

Have you checked milk stout recipes? For 1940 Mackeson it's one pound of lactose to 7lb pale, 1/2 lb brown, 2/3lb chocolate and just under 2lb dark invert sugars. Couple oz of bittering hops and another couple to finish. Attenuation of 60%, though! (Another reason to order a Ronald Pattinson book)

 

[Yooper]

As the others mentioned, it's WAY too much coffee malt. It's also a boatload of biscuit malt (way too much), and not enough crystal malt. It's just too many specialty grains altogether and not enough base malt.

I'd start over. I'd go with a nice base of a nice bready English malt, like marris otter. Definitely NO 6-row, as you want a warm malt flavor and not grainy 6-row. I'd increase the crystal for some sweetness to balance the roast, and use a pound of black malt or coffee malt for the roasty flavors. I'd use pale chocolate malt, 1/2 pound, to bring up some deep flavors without bitterness.

You want at least 68-70% base malt. The rest, like coffee malt, can be spread out something like this:

Base malt (NOT 6 row!)- 68%
Black malt or coffee malt- 9-10%
crystal malt (up to a pound or so), 60-80L 7%
pale chocolate malt 5%
lactose- 1 pound (or up to 10% by weight)

That should make you a nice sweet stout, without being overly roasty. Don't use biscuit malt, as it's very "dry" and will increase the harshness of the roasted malt flavors.

Mash at as high as 156 to enhance a rich body and mouthfeel.

 

[Urban_Samurai]

Well, thank you all for the input, it would seem the major area for concern is the grain bill! Is there anything to mention on the hop addition/choice? What about the cocoa nibs/powder? I understand that the cocoa powder can make things quite bitter, so should I for go the powder and concentrate on nibs? Is 2 vanilla bean sufficient for 5gal.?
I know that's a lot of questions but again thank you all!

Edit: Is coffee malt = pale chocolate malt?

 

[Yooper]

Well, thank you all for the input, it would seem the major area for concern is the grain bill! Is there anything to mention on the hop addition/choice? What about the cocoa nibs/powder? I understand that the cocoa powder can make things quite bitter, so should I for go the powder and concentrate on nibs? Is 2 vanilla bean sufficient for 5gal.?
I know that's a lot of questions but again thank you all!

Edit: Is coffee malt = pale chocolate malt?

No, coffee malt is more like black barley (not black patent). Pale chocolate is a less roasted chocolate malt, so it's not as roasty and acrid.

I don't know about chocolate and vanilla in beer, as I hate chocolate and don't use it even and foods. I know other brewers have used it, though!

 

[JKaranka]

I've used vanilla and two pods is enough. It's flavour and aroma peak about two months after bottling and it's quite noticeable. I soaked mine in rum and added to the fermenter once the krausen was gone as id dry hopping.