Advice for a brewer who doesn't drink

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kombat said:
I don't bungee jump. I don't have any desire to.
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The only thing I could think of when I read this was that I wouldn't jump with a chord made from a person who studied the science of bungee jumping and manufactured them using good practices but never tested them. Sadly you didn't go there. It would have been funny... You had a lot of valid points and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter (just a Simpson's joke- Yes I watch The Simpson's) I mean no malice here just thought this was funny.

This is beer. So to say how I would feel about someone brewing beer they won't drink is tough but I'd accept it. I didn't read all 120 posts so maybe there is something in there that would change my mind regarding this guy's personality but at this point here's what I'd say:

Sobeer Brewer- I'd happily try any ale or lager you put in fromt of me. In fact I go to Partland once a year to visit family. They brew and would also love to try your beers. PM me and we'll get together next time I am in town. Isn't it frequently said on this board that we should let people like the beer they like or drink what they like? If they don't like the craft beer we make, then the more for us, right? I think this guy is great for making 'more for us'

Keep Portland weird my friend and I'll see you there.
 
sweetcell said:
i can't believe the amount of negativity and lack of acceptance in here. is it because people feel threatened by the OP's ability to brew but not drink??
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There have been some rude comments but I personally think the fair amount of been well thought out and written with points to obvious issues. You take this same story to a group of people and I guarantee you 95% or more people will have similar comments about the OP having some other issue at play.

That said, you have to understand this thread didn't start with the following:

"Hi all. I'm a brewer and love the art but I have a problem... I have a severe allergy to alcohol so I can't drink even a full pint of beer. I do get to take a tiny sip of my beer to taste it and tweak my recipes but I simply can't drink a full beer without breaking out in hives or going into anaphylaxis. Do you think other brewers would accept me in a brewing club or would they react oddly that I can't drink their beers and give them feedback?".

Instead it's a person that simply refuses to even take a tiny sip for no good logical reason, yet he was considering joining a brew club. He also said be engages in hobbies, absorbs as much info about it as he can then moves on. See the difference?


Rev.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that a blind person could LOVE to paint. That said, a blind person cannot have an intelligent discussion about painting or the visual arts in general. A blind person may even occasionally make a nice painting, however abstract, even one with real artistic merit, but he has no way to evaluate or improve his work, or grow as an artist.

It's always dangerous to say "You FAILED at self-expression," but in this case, like the hypothetical, it is absolutely impossible to determine that you have succeeded. People can say a beer is good or meets a style guideline, but unless you taste it, you'll never know if you got what you were going for.

Ultimately, you're intentionally putting yourself in situations where you're going to be judged. You don't have a history of alcoholism and don't know if you like the flavor of beer, yet you seek out situations where alcohol and drinking will inevitably come up in conversation. It's off-putting to interact with people who choose to engage in activities solely to bring attention to themselves. My best friend has identical attitudes toward alcohol that you do, which is irritating, but we don't drink or brew together, and he doesn't press the issue.

You're not forging an identity for yourself that is unique and interesting, you're forging one that is "hey, it's that guy that won't stop telling us that he doesn't drink."
 
I can understand the draw for someone that doesn't drink, it is a fascinating hobby. Like everyone else though I don't understand not at least tasting the product to get a feel of what ingredients do what to the beer.

I'm a mountain biker also and if someone told me they owned an expensive bike because they look cool but won't even sit on it because they're afraid they might hurt themselves I'd have the same reaction as many people here....
 
OP I say BLASPHEMY!!! Just kidding but this is a strange story. And you must be very generous cuz if I had to quit drinking for some reason I would not keep brewing just to give beer out. You must be some sort of monk or something.
 
It seems like the OP is leaving something out. Reminds me of born agains that won't say why they needed to be born again. Hey, if drinking leads to cocaine which leads to visiting a brothel and shooting heroine for 2 weeks with herpes infested prostitutes, i salute you for not drinking. But not drinking, or even sampling,because its "not part of my identity",but still BREWING, sounds a bit silly.
 
thisisjohnbrown said:
I am a programmer, and love art. Some of my favorite art pieces are things like fractal arts or randomly generated poetry or a painting that an autonomous robot creates. Those things intrigue me.


I love analogies, so one more. An older person didn't grow up with the Internet, so it's easy for your grandparents to write it off, because it wasn't a part of their life.
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Art generated by a machine, and love to brew but have never drank beer?
That is even strange by Portland standards.
Probably weird by San Fransisco standards.

As for people who grew up without internet, that would be me and yet here I am.
Not scared of something new.

Face it, your life is based on trying to present an image. A strange image that you think is different and cool.
You have no idea of who you are or what you like.
You could probably benefit from some counseling.
Shave the beard, drink a beer, give up brewing and find something you like to do.
 
He's 30 which means he is old enough to be secure with himself and not have to "portray" an image to his friends. That argument is just stupid. Grow a pair and drink your beer you are so proud of. Maybe you're afraid it will suck and that all your so called friends have just been lying to you to make you feel better.

This thread is like a train wreck....I don't want to keep looking but I can't help it.

Something stinks here. The OP is either a religious nut that can't work out the details of consuming alcohol without compromising his principles or he's a 10 year old kid that "just doesn't like the taste" of beer.

Not trying to be a jerk, but what you're doing is not normal or even understandable.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe he's a heavy pot smoker. Lives in oregon, doesn't drink beer, digs fractals. Now that's something I can understand.
 
45_70sharps said:
Let's face it, the hot wings are good
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I think their wings are mediocre at best: fake butter & off-brand Tobasco. And there's better "scenery" at my local grocery store. Just my opinion.

As for the OP, somebody mentioned Aspergers earlier--seems close to the mark if you ask me. It would explain the appearance of "something missing.".

Regardless, do what you like--whether that's brewing without drinking, trolling, or eating bad wings :)
 
What if I joined an acting club, said I was a pretty good actor but that I don't like to watch movies or plays or television shows? I act because other people enjoy watching actors and in order to interact with them I act. I won't watch my own plays because I don't like plays. I don't like acting. I don't like actors. I just am one. A good one, from what I hear. Not that I would really know because I like acting so little that I don't watch myself or anyone act.

Do you think the acting club would be interested in having you as a member? You don't like what they do. You won't watch a second of what they do. No, not a damn second of it. That's how much you don't like it.

We all love beer. That's why we make it.

There's a difference between a painter who is blind and a painter who just refuses to look at paintings.
 
He never did answer the question as to whether he'd take a sip and spit it out.

I often think about ways I could brew more, but drink less. But by not having a sample, trying it out, you close off a third or more of your available information and feedback on what you do.

I used to be all about the beer styles, but slowly I'm twisting them up like pretzels. An APA should be accessible to BMC drinkers, so adding some rice and thinning it out and keeping the IBU's low with lots of flavor and aroma additions makes for a really awesome Pale Ale. Rice in a Pale Ale? Sure! Blend a well-aged super-malty IPA with a younger, fresher one with mega hops to replace the fresh taste that was lost during aging? Why not? Blending an IPA! Who else does that?! Crazy cool potential there! But do that without tasting it? You're just painting by someone else's numbers.

I could see myself brewing without drinking, but I couldn't imagine brewing without tasting. I see no logical reason why the OP would object to tasting his beers and spitting it out. And yet he hasn't ever answered the question as to why he doesn't or won't do so... and that question has been asked at least a half dozen times.

No beer drinkers, outside of brewers (home brewers, or commercial) have the palate to really give you good feedback. It gets them drunk? Doesn't make them vomit? It's a good beer. Only brewers... Yes, I say ONLY BREWERS, have the refined palates to genuinely spot glaring problems and resolve them. I can mash high, aerate the hell out of my finished beer, under-pitch my yeast, boil my hops until they taste like celery, boil my wort with the lid on, creating a ton of DMS, and it's only going to be the brewers who can say, "Oh hey. I recognize this fault..." because they've encountered it themselves. The regular drinkers will just say, "Hey! That's a good (free) beer, man!"

Basically, the OP can certainly make a tolerable beer with his current approach, but without ever tasting it, he will forever lack the experience of brewers with a tenth of the batches under their belt. Drinking, or not, he WILL lack the feedback to confidently make a good product. But, if he joins a homebrew club, gets that feedback from talented brewers, he may get better... he might even make beer that he can be confident is tasty, but even then, he won't have a hope of become an "artist"... because he won't be able to create beers from within himself, based upon his own experience. To him, it's just data, and information. It isn't creative decisions about how to best brew something special. It's just recipes, tweaked by data received.

I understand not drinking. I don't understand why he would avoid explaining what he has against tasting his beer (and spitting it out). For all we know, every batch has a nasty infection and his friends are just too nice to say so, or too ignorant to identify the issue.

So why not swish a bit around in your mouth a little bit? Because you once got in a fight 15 years ago? Really? I once tripped while sucking on a red lollipop. I don't walk and suck on lollipops anymore. But if I were making lollipops, I'd sit in my easy-chair and see what my creation tasted like, even if I did rinse my mouth out immediately afterwards and brush my teeth twice. I would at least come as close as I could to enjoying it... so I could gain the knowledge of it.

Try making a cola without ever tasting one. You will brew twenty batches to get as close as two batches from somebody who actually tasted what they made. And along the way, you may even come up with some creative insight that allows you to take something in a totally different direction and create a new paradigm in colas. The person asking "Does it taste like Coca Cola?" will never think to create something better. The best he can hope for is a blind-leading-the-blind approach towards mediocrity. And even that will be a long struggle.

He still hasn't said what he has against swishing it around in his mouth and spitting it down the drain...
 
kombat said:
Uhm, I think psychologists call those behaviours "markers" for sadism.

What kind of sicko kills animals for fun, and doesn't even eat them?
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A lot of people hunt for what they call sport and do not eat what they harvest.I am not one of them and as long as they make sure the meat is given to someone who will eat it I could care less.

I do not care to hunt for something I don't eat.
 
I don't know what Romanian sounds like but I make recordings of myself reading Romanian poetry. Advice?

Drink the beer.
 
thisisjohnbrown said:
Alright, I've been lurking around the forums for over a year, and been brewing about as long, and I am ready to make a confession, because I want to know how to proceed.

I am 30, and I have only drank alcohol 4 times in my life, three at 15, once around 2 years ago, and never beer.

My personality is that I think something is interesting, and research the hell out of it to learn as much as I can, and then move on. My wife wanted to know what beers go with what foods, so I started reading about beer pairing, and then about the styles, and then about the process, and then about the details of the process, and eventually, after talking about it with friends for a year, decided I wanted to try it.

I have brewed 37 batches (I keep meticulous notes), all based on science and best practices. My wife and brother are my alpha tasters, and I smell the ingredients, but I have never tasted any of it. I get feedback on a recipe, and modify it based on what that feedback is.

I approach it as a grand experiment, my bottling name is Sobeer Brewing, as in sober beer brewing. I put codes on the bottles and built a website, and people can rate the beers and give feedback on them and request branches with changes after putting in those codes. I have had beer parties where I serve several beers to get friends and colleagues together. I brew every other weekend.

I know this all sounds crazy, and maybe it is, but apparently it fits my personality, because everyone who knows me accepts it as just an extension of me.

If you're still reading, that's impressive, because here's my question: How will other brewers take this if I start telling them?

I hand out in the brew shop and chat, and they offer me beers the have on tap and I either politely decline or (if she's with me) accept and give it to my wife and ask her opinion so I can tell them. I want to go to meet ups, but I have an anxiety about telling them all this when I don't drink with them while talking about this great hobby.

Am I destined to be on my own island, or will the community accept me for my oddity?
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Your not alone at all with this !! I thought I was the only one who doesn't really drink but brews like a maniac and I win bos and place all the time I'm also the president of a large HomeBrew club and recently was picked up as head brewer for bullmastiff brewery . All this and I haven't drank substantially in almost a year. Now I cannot claim to only have drank 4 times in my life but, I made a descion not to drink at the beginning of the year for medical reasons ( I had to have knee surgery and couldn't drink with the meds) and just stayed not drinking. I love to brew so much even though I don't drink right now I would never stop brewing. So your not alone and who cares what other brewers think if you drink alcohol or not it really does not matter in anyway shape or form as long as you enjoy what your doing. Keep on brewing and enjoy !!!
 
Aschecte said:
Your not alone at all with this !! I thought I was the only one who doesn't really drink but brews like a maniac and I win bos and place all the time I'm also the president of a large HomeBrew club and recently was picked up as head brewer for bullmastiff brewery . All this and I haven't drank substantially in almost a year. Now I cannot claim to only have drank 4 times in my life but, I made a descion not to drink at the beginning of the year for medical reasons ( I had to have knee surgery and couldn't drink with the meds) and just stayed not drinking. I love to brew so much even though I don't drink right now I would never stop brewing. So your not alone and who cares what other brewers think if you drink alcohol or not it really does not matter in anyway shape or form as long as you enjoy what your doing. Keep on brewing and enjoy !!!
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Hmmm... not so sure you and the OP have much in common, here.
 
petep1980 said:
If you're meticulous and into science try non alcoholic brewing.
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That's actually a really good call. NA beer is virtually uncharted territory in homebrew, and the stuff available on the market is terrible. If this guy could develop the field, thousands of homebrewers with doctors' orders would be grateful.
 
Pilgarlic said:
Hmmm... not so sure you and the OP have much in common, here.
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Not as a whole no we don't because I'm more like over the last year and will drink again. My point is that if you enjoy brewing despite not drinking more power to him or her whatever the case is. I accomplished more after I stopped drinking than when I was. Granted I had the expierence of tasting my recipes for years and learning the flavors first hand. Just to reiterate if they are enjoying the process and they have a reliable source for critique than they should continue and not feel segregated from the rest of the brewing community.
 
BrewerBear said:
A lot of people hunt for what they call sport and do not eat what they harvest.
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No no, I get it, I'm aware those people exist. I'm saying they're nutjub psychos with whom I would never associate, nor let anyone I cared about associate with.

People who think it's "fun" to kill things have a major mental problem, IMHO. It belies a serious lack of an ability to empathize with other living beings.

Anyway, enough off-topic ranting.
 
kombat said:
No no, I get it, I'm aware those people exist. I'm saying they're nutjub psychos with whom I would never associate, nor let anyone I cared about associate with.

People who think it's "fun" to kill things have a major mental problem, IMHO. It belies a serious lack of an ability to empathize with other living beings.

Anyway, enough off-topic ranting.
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You're a vegetarian I assume?
 
kombat said:
No no, I get it, I'm aware those people exist. I'm saying they're nutjub psychos with whom I would never associate, nor let anyone I cared about associate with.

People who think it's "fun" to kill things have a major mental problem, IMHO. It belies a serious lack of an ability to empathize with other living beings.

Anyway, enough off-topic ranting.
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I actually agree 100% with this statement you don't kill for fun or hang a head on the wall. I am a hunter and for every deer I tag I either eat it myself or I donate to the church to feed the poor who cannot afford food. As said though let's not derail the thread.
 
kombat said:
No no, I get it, I'm aware those people exist. I'm saying they're nutjub psychos with whom I would never associate, nor let anyone I cared about associate with.

People who think it's "fun" to kill things have a major mental problem, IMHO. It belies a serious lack of an ability to empathize with other living beings.

Anyway, enough off-topic ranting.
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We hunt , fish and forage to keep the freezers/pantry full. Besides it's much better eating than that pale, pinkish, saran wapped, styrofoam spanked crap they sell in the stores!
 
Hasn't this gone on long enough?
OP wants attention and all this is doing is giving it to him.
If we encourage him, he will persist.
What's next? A rancher for animal rights? A librarian who can't read? A gynecologist that doesn't like......
 
While I respect the op's decision not to drink,I question his motives. I found through alcoholics programs years ago that it wasn't my drinking that was the problem. It was drinking alone with my thoughts instead of sharing the time with my wife. The work friends I had seemed to love getting me drunk till the wee hours after work just to get me into trouble with my wife. 86'ed that stuff. I'm def happier now with how my wife loves my home brews,& we get some quality time.
You don't have to drink to get drunk either. Like they used to tell us,if you have to drink to be social,you're not a social drinker. You don't have to live up to the standards of others. Don't let them live your life for you. That's your job alone.
 

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