Adjusting grain bill for dark or wheat beers

[arnobg]

Since I have been in the world of all grain BIAB I have not done a stout or porter, but have ready these beers usually yield less efficiency than normal brewing. I realized too my 50% wheat beer yielded less efficiency.

How do you usually compensate for this? Do you use a rule of thumb number for adding grain, or change your efficiency in your software for these beers? I have my grain mill set at .028 for everything and would like not to change it as I get 80% efficiency on all my normal beers.

 

[newnick]

I don't have a mill so I can't make any suggestions on gapping one. I have made quite a few stouts and a few wits and haven't really had many issues with efficiencies. I have used a little to much water a couple times and have adjusted for that.

 

[mabrungard]

In my experience, efficiency is not really an effect of the water chemistry. Only if it was way off would efficiency suffer. Efficiency has more to do with the mashing method and procedures.

 

[arnobg]

In my experience, efficiency is not really an effect of the water chemistry. Only if it was way off would efficiency suffer. Efficiency has more to do with the mashing method and procedures.

I'm confused I didn't mention water, just grain bills and mash?

 

[chickypad]

I have not done a stout or porter, but have ready these beers usually yield less efficiency than normal brewing.

Just wondering where you read this, I've never heard of that. I certainly don't see it in practice. I'd guess the low efficiency on the wheat was a crush issue, lots of folks adjust their mill gap when crushing wheat due to the smaller kernels.

 

[newnick]

He is a water expert letting you know your water profile will not effect your efficiency.
You can use a fine crush with BIAB and the correct amount of water and you should get good efficiency. Might try mashing longer if your not.

 

[wilserbrewer]

A very high gravity beer, be it a stout or porter will typically be less efficient. As gravity goes up, it is more difficult to collect the same percentages of fermentables as with a beer with less gravity.

Wheat is a aller harder kernel than barley, and can be less efficient if not crushed adequately.

 

[arnobg]

A very high gravity beer, be it a stout or porter will typically be less efficient. As gravity goes up, it is more difficult to collect the same percentages of fermentables as with a beer with less gravity.

Wheat is a aller harder kernel than barley, and can be less efficient if not crushed adequately.

That's what it was I've been reading, thanks for jarring my memory. Higher gravity beers, which for me would be stouts and similar styles.

Anyways, since beersmith doesn't calculate this what is a general "rule of thumb" for compensating when brewing high gravity beers to hit your OG accurately as I do with normal beers?

 

[doug293cz]

Lauter efficiency drops with increasing gain bill weight. And since mash efficiency equals conversion efficiency times lauter efficiency, mash efficiency goes down proportionately. For batch sparge and no sparge it is possible to calculate lauter efficiency as a function of grain bill weight. The lauter efficiency is also a strong function of the grain's wort retention rate. The chart below shows how lauter efficiency varies with grain weight for different grain absorption rates. All curves assume 6.7 gal pre-boil volume. If you are doing 5 gal batches, you can find a line that matches your mash efficiency for a typical grain bill weight, and then read read the efficiency on that line for the higher grain bill weight of a large beer. This should give you a rough idea of how much to adjust your efficiency estimate for the larger gain bill. If doing 10 gal batches, divide your grain bill weights in half before going into the chart.



Brew on

 

[TexasWine]

Higher gravity beers, which for me would be stouts and similar styles.

I'd check out the BJCP Beer Style Guidelines. Most stouts are actually not what I would consider "high gravity". Irish, Irish Extra, sweet and oatmeal all are what would classify as normal range stuff, with Irish Extra coming in at the highest of 6.5% and an OG of 1.062. Heck, even the American stout has a max ABV of 7%.

I'm venturing a guess that's why folks are chiming in here saying they see no reduction in efficiency with dark beers. The grain bills just aren't that big for most stouts.

Just something to keep in mind. Many people equate dark beer with a high ABV, when in reality that's most often not the case.

 

[mabrungard]

I'm confused I didn't mention water, just grain bills and mash?

Oops! My bad. For some reason, I thought the original post had something on water quality in it. Apparently I can't read or comprehend.

Carry on.