Acidify Sparge Water or not

[AndyRN]

A few questions about this.

1. Has anyone brewed a batch with and w/o acidifying sparge water and noticed a desirable difference?

2. Are there certain beers, grains, etc... that benefit more from acidifying sparge water?

3. Or, is acidifying sparge water done more for certain water profiles than beer types.

 

[doug293cz]

Acidifying sparge water is done to keep the sparge pH from exceeding about 6. If the sparge pH gets high, and the temp is over about 170°F, you can extract tannins, which will make your beer astringent. Whether you need to acidify your sparge water depends more on your water's alkalinity than it's starting pH.

Brew on

 

[ajdelange]

1. I don't know. I haven't.
2. A beer with lots of grain and a low mash pH has more buffering capacity than one with less grain and a higher mash pH but the grain amount is a minor effect as, presumably, you will sparge with approximately the same amount of water per pound in each brew you do.
3. This is the major factor. High alkalinity water absorbs protons from the mash and results in increased pH. Each brewer should, for at least a few brews, track runoff pH and gravity during sparge to see how his water, his equipment and his technique effect end runoff pH. If you are reaching the desired terminal gravity before pH hits 6 you needn't acidify your sparge water. OTOH calculating 80% of the alkalinity divided by 50 times the number of liters of sparge water and adding that many mEq of acid is pretty easy to do and insures that you will not have a problem with this. You can get the same effect by treating all the brew water (mash and sparge) with acid prior to reach the desired mash pH. The same calculation will get you close and you adjust by adding either more acid or more water. This also zeroes out the water's alkalinity and simplifies mash pH calculations.

 

[mabrungard]

The need to acidify sparging water is directly dependent upon the alkalinity of the tap water. I now use RO water and don't have to acidify since it already has very low alkalinity. On the other hand, my water in Tallahassee was plenty alkaline and I had to acidify to knock that alkalinity down.

The need to acidify and reduce the alkalinity of the sparging water is not dependent upon the beer style being brewed. If your tap water has more than 25 to 50 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3), then you really should acidify. If your tap has less than 25 ppm alkalinity, then there is no need to acidify.

 

[ajdelange]

I wasn't very clear on point 2 in Post #3. The higher the buffering capacity of the mash the less likely it is that you will need to acidify the sparge water. Thus a mash you make to pH 5.3 is less likely to require acidification of the sparge water than one you make to pH 5.5. Lagers are usually mashed at higher pH's than ales. Thus ales are less likely to require sparge acidification than lagers. This is the only dependence on style that I can think of.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I wasn't very clear on point 2 in Post #3. The higher the buffering capacity of the mash the less likely it is that you will need to acidify the sparge water. Thus a mash you make to pH 5.3 is less likely to require acidification of the sparge water than one you make to pH 5.5. Lagers are usually mashed at higher pH's than ales. Thus ales are less likely to require sparge acidification than lagers. This is the only dependence on style that I can think of.

Sorry for pulling up an old one guys, just sort of sailing around sundry things to obsess about.

Today is not the day for me to try and bend my neurons from their usual slack state. Quick and easy: I plan to use a 3:1 RO:tap water for my pales, and it's got some salts, and a relatively small amount of 10% HCL. I plan to treat the whole water "cistern," as I think you know. Likely, I'll pour the blend of water into the HLT, mix in there, and pump the proper amount of strike water over to the MLT.

The quick and easy. I do not need to treat the sparge liquor any more, right? No phosphoric or lactic addition to bring the liquor to 5.7, or anything like that (which is what I used to do. All I used to do for the HLT water. But it begs the question, why do I want to dilute the salts and so forth set up in the mash water?). Is it solely dependent on the mash pH and it's buffering capacity, or have I created a water that won't produce alkaline effects (tannin, polyphenols), throughout the system?

 

[malhal]

1. My brews before acidifying sparge water had a woody tannic astringent after taste I and a few others could taste, some described it differently though, like green pea and cut hedges. The bad taste is in most commercial IPAs outside of USA where the use of acid is uncommon and not professionally practiced.

2. IPAs, pale ale malts (dark malts lower pH), heavy use of hops (hops raise pH).

3. Probably need more acid in a softer water profile.

 

[doug293cz]

1. My brews before acidifying sparge water had a woody tannic astringent after taste I and a few others could taste, some described it differently though, like green pea and cut hedges. The bad taste is in most commercial IPAs outside of USA where the use of acid is uncommon and not professionally practiced.

2. IPAs, pale ale malts (dark malts lower pH), heavy use of hops (hops raise pH).

3. Probably need more acid in a softer water profile.

I believe #3 is backwards. Harder water is usually more alkaline (hardness is mostly due to Ca [and to a lesser extent Mg] carbonate and bicarbonate), and thus needs more acid to shift the pH below 6.

Brew on

 

[mabrungard]

I believe #3 is backwards. Harder water is usually more alkaline (hardness is mostly due to Ca [and to a lesser extent Mg] carbonate and bicarbonate), and thus needs more acid to shift the pH below 6.

Probably, but not always.

There are natural waters that have hardness with little alkalinity and there is chloride and/or sulfate that pairs with the calcium or magnesium. These are waters with high 'permanent hardness'.

 

[oldschool]

I think the replies are accurate. But something to take into consideration-
Think about it a few ways. If you are acidifying sparge water ever, then why are you doing that? If you are concerned about high pH last wort and it’s necessary to stay under 5.8 or so then take some samples of during lauter and make adjustments either then or on the next brew. Or also another angle is a target pre boil pH or cold wort pH. Regardless there isn’t a cut and dry answer with many factors at play. If your alkalinity is higher and it’s a pale wort then the last wort may be high pH but homebrewers generally don’t extract so much that it’s an issue. Dark worts are less susceptible to pH rise etc.

What I do is pick targets and hit them or close. After a few brews you’re dialed in.

I use low alkalinity water and add acid in the kettle to get pre boil and cold wort pH in to a friendly range.

hope that makes some sense.

 

[Jeroen79]

I also acidify my sparge water, and i have the idea my beer got better with it, we have very soft water here so i use about 10ml Lactic Acid on 6L of sparge water.

 

[minmaxx77]

I also acidify my sparge water, and i have the idea my beer got better with it, we have very soft water here so i use about 10ml Lactic Acid on 6L of sparge water.

Do you also treat sparge water with brewing salts? Or you put all the salts into the mash water?

 

[malhal]

Do you also treat sparge water with brewing salts? Or you put all the salts into the mash water?

I suppose it depends on if your water profile is targeting initial water volume or fermenter volume. Because if you added salts to sparge water then some of those salts will get left behind in the grain absorption. Similarly if you added salts only to mash you'd have too much salts.

 

[Jeroen79]

Do you also treat sparge water with brewing salts? Or you put all the salts into the mash water?

i only acidify the sparge water, the salts go all in the brewing water.

 

[MicroMickey]

If you need to treat your water, treat ALL OF YOUR WATER. I also acidify my sparge water to pH 5.8 to alleviate the extraction of polyphenols (tannins). It's made a world of difference in my finished beer.

 

[VikeMan]

There are times it makes sense to add salts only to the mash. Suppose, for example, you want total chorides and sulfates at a certain level. You might find that building to some higher level (concentration) in the mash only results in hitting your target mash pH (from the calcium that comes along for the ride) and, when the mash is diluted by the un-salted sparge water, you get back to the levels (concentrations) you wanted.

 

[minmaxx77]

I suppose it depends on if your water profile is targeting initial water volume or fermenter volume. Because if you added salts to sparge water then some of those salts will get left behind in the grain absorption. Similarly if you added salts only to mash you'd have too much salts.

Wich water volume should be used for calculations? I calculated based on my total water volume and was thinking that due to the boiloff i will end up with higher salts amounts. Ratio will stay the same though.

it was my first attempt playing with brewing salts (used RO water since i dont know my well water profile yet). i measured out all the salts and divided roughly 70/30 to mash/sparge (19L/14L) Is this a decent practise or not?

 

[MicroMickey]

Wich water volume should be used for calculations? I calculated based on my total water volume and was thinking that due to the boiloff i will end up with higher salts amounts. Ratio will stay the same though.

If you start with the perfect brewing water and have no adjustments to make, the boil will evaporate only the water and the mineral/salt content will concentrate anyway.

 

[DBhomebrew]

There are no universal water treatment prescriptions. Your water, your recipe, your exact grains out of the bag will be different from any other brewer's or even your own batches'.

Strike water must have adequate alkalinity to bring the mash pH within proper range.

Sparge water must have a low enough alkalinity to stay within proper pH.

Overall water Ca levels must be high enough for good yeast health and flocculation.

'Flavor' ions come along for the ride with the Ca and their affects are arguable. I like a bit of Na for flavor as well.

How you approach the above is up to you. Some methods will work better for some brewers, others for others.

Mike likes to mix his water as one. I like to treat my strike water with enough of the total batch's salts to hit pH, then the rest of the salts go in the kettle. Nothing is done to my sparge water at all, it's RO with 0 alkalinity.

It's a bit like asking for driving directions. You need to input your starting and ends points. Without those, preferences like no highways or tolls mean nothing. With them, the preferences still don't matter all that much as long as you get to your destination.

 

[doug293cz]

Wich water volume should be used for calculations? I calculated based on my total water volume and was thinking that due to the boiloff i will end up with higher salts amounts. Ratio will stay the same though.

it was my first attempt playing with brewing salts (used RO water since i dont know my well water profile yet). i measured out all the salts and divided roughly 70/30 to mash/sparge (19L/14L) Is this a decent practise or not?

Your strike/sparge ratio is more like 58:42 [(19/33)14/33)], but then that's better than 70:30 anyway.

Brew on

 

[minmaxx77]

Thanks guys. Lot of great point to think about.