A Hoppy Aamerican Saison

[KneeHighBrewery]

I'm looking to get a little creative with my next saison. Do you guys think I'm losing it?

Recipe: American Farmhouse Saison
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 4.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 6.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 43.5 %
5 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 43.5 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.7 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.3 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 14.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 10.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 3.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 2.9 IBUs
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 9 -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 10 -
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

 

[BrewKnurd]

What part are you worried might be "losing it"?

I might sub out some of the base malt and replace with some sugar to help dry it out a bit.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Depending on mash temp, there might not be a need to dry it out any, but it all depends on what the OP is going for. That 3711 is a beast, and will probably take this thing at or below 1.010 no matter what you do. Personally, I think this looks like a pretty cool recipe. I would try it as is and see how it turns out.

 

[Beernik]

Seems fine to me. Have you done late additions with Northern Brewer before?

 

[daksin]

Looks tasty- I'm weird in that I like NB as a late addition, but for a saison I would consider something a little less flavorful than NB for bittering.

 

[KneeHighBrewery]

Thanks for your feedback guys. After doing some more research, I went back to the drawing board. My original inspiration for this recipe was to make a Belgian style farmhouse saison, but hop it pretty intensely with American hops. This will also be my first foray into dry-hopping. I guess that's what I meant by "losing it," I didn't want to take on too much too soon.

That being said, what do you guys mean by 'drying it out'?

Here's my updated recipe:

Recipe: American Farmhouse Saison
Brewer: Justin
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 4.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.8 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.1 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 %
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 17.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 10.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 8 -
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

 

[TheZymurgist]

Dryness describes the level of sweetness on a spectrum between sweet on one end, and dry on the other. The lower your final gravity, the more dry the beer becomes, since more sugars are fermented out and converted to alcohol. Dryness also has an effect on mouth feel; usually the more dry a beer becomes, the thinner the mouth feel, whereas a sweeter beer will be more likely to be more full-bodied.

 

[TimmyWit]

By drying it out, they mean adding some simple sugar to encourage the FG to get really low; ~1.008 or less. There's a CYBI episode on Saisons and Jamil is real big on making it as fermentable as possible (low mash, sugar additions).

Also, straight from Brewing Classic Styles, page 207 on Saisons:
"A great saison finishes very dry; the most common brewing mistake for this style is not getting a dry enough finish. In order to get the beer to finish dry, the recipe must have a considerable amount of simple sugars."

Jamil calls for the Belgian strain in his recipes which Wyeast even admits is notorious for being stuck. It looks like you're using the French one so you may have better luck getting it reasonably dry without it.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=60

That being said, you're putting a reasonable amount of hops in the beer which may benefit from the beer not being too dry for the sake of balance. Also, the dryness is sort of a style guideline but your creation is sort of half way between a pale ale and a saison so do what you like.

If you're aiming to lean towards a saison rather than a pale, I think I might omit the dry hop. 3711 is supposed to enhance the use of aroma hops but I would worry that an ounce of Centennial might mask some of those nice aromatics that 3711 is supposed to put out.

It looks like a fun experiment. I can't wait to hear how it turns out.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Timmy brings up two really good points. You may want to limit the time on the dry hop to no more than 7 days. I think after that the hop aroma might be in competition with the yeast flavors. Also, since these beers tend to be drier, you want to restrain the bittering additions, but I think you've done that fairly well. You're looking at a bitterness ratio that tends towards the sweet side (rather than bitter), which will seem less sweet since the beer will ferment so low.