2015 bjcp category? high abv kolsch

[BeardedBee]

Hello all! First post here. I am new to brewing and entering in my first competition soon. I am unsure how to enter one of my brews. I have brewed an all grain high abv kolsch beer using

Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2
Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)
White labs Kolsch yeast

I basically doubled the grain bill to achieve higher abv. What category would you all place this beer? It is a med-deep gold color, strong head, lacing is good, slight alcohol taste at the end. Could this pass as a Belgian Golden Strong Ale even if I used German grain?

I also have a spot-on Munich Dunkel, ESB, and Weissbeir that I am entering.

I appreciate y'alls help!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's impossible for anyone to give advice without knowing the proportions of grains - a 3% wheat beer is very different to one with 50% wheat - and vital statistics like ABV, FG, IBU etc.

The Belgians use a lot of pilsner, so that's not a disqualification in itself. Depending on the numbers, 24C Bière de Garde is a good ragbag category that might work, or 24B Belgian Pale Ale.

If the competition is based on the 2015 guidelines, then you may struggle to enter your ESB....

 

[BeardedBee]

It's impossible for anyone to give advice without knowing the proportions of grains - a 3% wheat beer is very different to one with 50% wheat - and vital statistics like ABV, FG, IBU etc.

The Belgians use a lot of pilsner, so that's not a disqualification in itself. Depending on the numbers, 24C Bière de Garde is a good ragbag category that might work, or 24B Belgian Pale Ale.

If the competition is based on the 2015 guidelines, then you may struggle to enter your ESB....

Thanks for the response.. so it is
93% 2 row Germ Pilsner
4.8% Germ Wheat malt
2.1% Honey Malt

ABV is 9.8%
FG was I believe 1.006
Unsure of IBU but I used 2 oz of Liberty at 4%AA
and 2 oz of Mt. Hood at 5.3% AA both at 60 min boil


Why would the ESB be a struggle? I was looking at 11C for that one

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hmm, 9.8% and 1.006? BGSA is probably your best bet, you're firmly in Duvel/Delirium territory there, it's too dry for eg barleywine and too strong for a lot of styles. Possibly one could view it as a kinda doppelbock, but I'd go for BGSA.

My point was that BJCP finally realised that ESB is not a style, 11C is Strong Bitter not ESB...

 

[dmtaylor]

This is a 34B Mixed Style Beer. The mixture is either 4C Helles Bock (my recommendation, regardless of yeast used) or 5B Kolsch, along with... wait for it... 17D English Barleywine.

Additional thoughts:

Can't combine with 22C American Barleywine because as soon as you say "American", then the judges almost always expect citrusy hops, which won't be there.

Can't say 25C Belgian Golden Strong because the yeast isn't Belgian and the beer won't taste "Belgiany".

Can't say 4C Helles Bock by itself because it's far too strong.

Can't say 17D English Barleywine by itself because it's too light in color.

Can't say Imperial Kolsch because there's not a style for that besides 34B as recommended above.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[ESBrewer]

Yes, a mixed style maybe. Grains and numbers come from a Belgian ale (Tripel/Golden) but Kölsch yeast probably won't give the same phenolic character, even if the original gravity is high. If you think it has some Belgian taste you could mix either of those Belgian styles (depending on taste) with the more neutral Kölsch so people will understand that it is not meant to be so phenolic. Then there are some minor American notes, namely American hop variants and honey malt that are not common in the above mentioned styles, but if it is an American competition so nobody probably pays attention to that.

 

[dmtaylor]

If the competition is based on the 2015 guidelines, then you may struggle to enter your ESB....

Interesting... in 2008, BJCP considered Fuller's ESB to be the quintessential example of what came to be 11C Strong Bitter... then suddenly in 2015, Fuller's ESB was stricken from the record and explained to be NOT a good example. Those fickle BJCP Grand Masters!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

17D English Barleywine....Can't say 17D English Barleywine by itself because it's too light in color.

A bigger problem is the FG - at 1.006 it will taste completely different to a barleywine which would typically be in the 1.020's or more.

Can't say 25C Belgian Golden Strong because the yeast isn't Belgian and the beer won't taste "Belgiany".

Yes, a mixed style maybe. Grains and numbers come from a Belgian ale (Tripel/Golden) but Kölsch yeast probably won't give the same phenolic character, even if the original gravity is high. If you think it has some Belgian taste you could mix either of those Belgian styles (depending on taste) with the more neutral Kölsch so people will understand that it is not meant to be so phenolic.

This is the real problem - although in the real world of a Belgian bottle shop it would be considered just another BGSA, foreign drinkers expect "Belgian" to mean POF+ phenolics. Which means that de Koninck and Rochefort aren't real Belgian beers, apparently. It's worth noting that even BJCP downplay the phenolics in 25C : "highly attenuated and features fruity and hoppy notes in preference to phenolics....Moderate to moderately low spicy, peppery phenols." So there's a whisper of phenolics, but it's really not a big feature.

So if you had to put it in an "actual" style, then it's probably BGSA, but given what people think "Belgian" means, then 34B Mixed Style is probably safer.

Then there are some minor American notes, namely American hop variants and honey malt that are not common in the above mentioned styles, but if it is an American competition so nobody probably pays attention to that.

And they're noble-ish hops going in at 60 minutes, they're not going to contribute any American notes.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Interesting... in 2008, BJCP considered Fuller's ESB to be the quintessential example of what came to be 11C Strong Bitter... then suddenly in 2015, Fuller's ESB was stricken from the record and explained to be NOT a good example. Those fickle BJCP Grand Masters!

To be fair, this is recognising they've made a mistake and trying to fix it. If you think there's an imaginary style called ESB, then of course you're going to use Fuller's as a defining example. It's just a shame there's no such thing as an ESB style.

 

[dmtaylor]

Fair enough, @Northern_Brewer, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Cheers!