How to save 20gal of oversweet IPA

[Sean Provencher]

I brewed 20 gal a few weekends ago and during my mash the temperature overran. I was unfortunately not watching it so I can't say the exact timeline of things but it blew past its intended mash temp of 155. I run a 3 vessel spike herms system and my inkbird overheated and got stuck in the ON position after reaching temp.

I hoped that it had sat low enough for long enough to convert since I mashed in a little low, so I decided to finish the batch and everything else went well. I also added in some table sugar to balance it out a little... my efforts were not enough.

The beer was supposed to finish at 1.016 down from 1.071. Alas, it's stuck at 1.045. VERY SWEET.

I've tried putting in some alpha amylase which I had sitting around and it hasn't budged after 5 days.

Has anyone had success saving a beer in this situation? It's extreemely delicious although obviously too sweet to drink. Is "beta amylase" a better option? Is there something I can order?

HELP!
Thanks

S

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 gal
Boil Size: 25.90 gal
Boil Time: 75 min
End of Boil Vol: 22.40 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 20.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 29 Sep 2023
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Triple Daddy
Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.3 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 gal
Boil Size: 25.90 gal
Boil Time: 75 min
End of Boil Vol: 22.40 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 20.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 29 Sep 2023
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Triple Daddy
Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.3 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
23 lbs​	Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)​	Grain​	6​	44.2 %​	1.80 gal​
20 lbs​	Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)​	Grain​	7​	38.5 %​	1.56 gal​
5 lbs​	Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)​

 

[VikeMan]

Assuming the gravity is really stuck at 1.045 (not an uncorrected refractometer measurement)...

I know a commercial brewer who had a similar situation (though not as severe) who ended up pitching Brett (a blend of Brett strains IIRC). The result was not really an IPA, but it was a quite good funky beer.

 

[AlexKay]

Glucoamylase.

You could also pitch 5 packs of Belle Saison.

Give it a good long time with either approach.

 

[Sean Provencher]

Glucoamylase.

You could also pitch 5 packs of Belle Saison.

Give it a good long time with either approach.

Thanks! Which one moves faster? Glucoamylase?

 

[Sean Provencher]

Assuming the gravity is really stuck at 1.045 (not an uncorrected refractometer measurement)...

I know a commercial brewer who had a similar situation (though not as severe) who ended up pitching Brett (a blend of Brett strains IIRC). The result was not really an IPA, but it was a quite good funky beer.

It's definitely still pretty sweet. I could take a second measurement but the taste test is definitely nowhere near dry enough to drink. Brett's not a bad idea! Thanks. I'm guessing this would still take a couple weeks or a month to finish or does it work pretty quick?

 

[GoodTruble]

Sorry if you already said - but what original yeast?

I probably agree with the above suggestions of pitching belle saison (or other high attenuating yeast) or glucoamylase. But if you started with a high attenuating yeast, then the latter is probably better.

 

[Beerstein]

If you pitch glucoamylase (ie UltraFerm) it'll probably be too dry for you. That stuff is hard to calculate how much to add, and will take it to 1.000.

Belle Saison is probably a better choice.

Edit: I'd add some fermaid-O with the saison yeast.

 

[Sean Provencher]

Sorry if you already said - but what original yeast?

I probably agree with the above suggestions of pitching belle saison (or other high attenuating yeast) or glucoamylase. But if you started with a high attenuating yeast, then the latter is probably better.

Thanks! I forgot to mention, I pitched two different strains of saison yeast from a local lab in Canada called escarpment. Belle saison and old world saison. Both are diastatic and high attenuators. I'm thinking glucoamylase is the way...

 

[AlexKay]

You’ve already got saison yeast in there, and you know it was active at one point because some fermentation happened. Unless something weird happened to kill the yeast that you haven’t mentioned yet, it is slow but still alive in there. Raise the temperature (what was it originally?), keep the fermenter closed, and let it be for two to four weeks.

 

[Sean Provencher]

You’ve already got saison yeast in there, and you know it was active at one point because some fermentation happened. Unless something weird happened to kill the yeast that you haven’t mentioned yet, it is slow but still alive in there. Raise the temperature (what was it originally?), keep the fermenter closed, and let it be for two to four weeks.

I'm sorry, I mixed myself up- it was Nottingham. Non diastetic. I'm not sure how I had that brain fart. I mixed it up with another batch.

 

[GoodTruble]

Nottigham is usually very reliable and high attenuating. Something seems off here. Bad gravity reading, stalled fermentation, or something else. Your mash should not have resulted in a beer finishing this high. Before risking a 20g batch with gluco, I would try warming a bit and rousing the yeast just to see if the gravity starts moving again. If that doesn't work, try pitching a saison yeast to see what happens.

Beerstein is right that gluco will thin out a beer (not sure about 1.000 though).

 

[madscientist451]

Make a keg of seltzer with corn sugar and turbo yeast, add a hop tea or fruit flavor maybe citrus. It will be ready in 3-4 days. Then “blend in the glass” with your sweet IPA. Maybe not the most elegant solution, better than dumping 20 gallons of beer.

 

[Sean Provencher]

Nottigham is usually very reliable and high attenuating. Something seems off here. Bad gravity reading, stalled fermentation, or something else. Your mash should not have resulted in a beer finishing this high. Before risking a 20g batch with gluco, I would try warming a bit and rousing the yeast just to see if the gravity starts moving again. If that doesn't work, try pitching a saison yeast to see what happens.

Beerstein is right that gluco will thin out a beer (not sure about 1.000 though).

Thanks this is a great solution. I have some belle saison too!

 

[mac_1103]

Before risking a 20g batch with gluco, I would try warming a bit and rousing the yeast just to see if the gravity starts moving again.

If that doesn't help I would transfer a couple of gallons to a smaller FV and try different things to see if anything works. Pitch a pack of Belle Saison. If that doesn't do anything add some gluco. If that doesn't work then it might be hopeless. Gluco is basically the nuclear option.

 

[Sean Provencher]

If that doesn't help I would transfer a couple of gallons to a smaller FV and try different things to see if anything works. Pitch a pack of Belle Saison. If that doesn't do anything add some gluco. If that doesn't work then it might be hopeless. Gluco is basically the nuclear option

Thanks for emphasizing this. I would have made it my first option. I'll start with saison.

I ordered some gluco last night, what's the pitch rate I should use?

 

[mac_1103]

I have 5 gram sachets that are very effective for a five gallon batch of brut IPA (i.e., it will let US-05 ferment down to <1.000), so I'd guess that a gram per gallon should be plenty. However, I've never tried to titrate glucoamylase. I suspect that it is very difficult to control (being an enzyme and being very stable at fermentation temps. The only way I know of to stop it is heat inactivation (70C/158F). So assuming that it worked and allowed the beer to ferment dry, then I guess in theory you could treat half of the batch, pasteurize that, and then mix it with the untreated half to get a FG of around 1.022. Again, maybe something to try with a gallon at a time.

 

[Mr. Vern]

I think this is how Hopslam came to be (sans high mash temp issue).. slow fermentation and a deadline. The brewer added honey to kick the yeast and maybe some extra hops to offset the residual sweetness. The rest is marketing history.

I was drinking when I heard that story FWIW

 

[Beerstein]

I have 5 gram sachets that are very effective for a five gallon batch of brut IPA (i.e., it will let US-05 ferment down to <1.000), so I'd guess that a gram per gallon should be plenty. However, I've never tried to titrate glucoamylase. I suspect that it is very difficult to control (being an enzyme and being very stable at fermentation temps. The only way I know of to stop it is heat inactivation (70C/158F). So assuming that it worked and allowed the beer to ferment dry, then I guess in theory you could treat half of the batch, pasteurize that, and then mix it with the untreated half to get a FG of around 1.022. Again, maybe something to try with a gallon at a time.

This is exactly what I'm worried about. It also depends what the dextrin content is. I suspect that "typical" dosing is actually too much to handle every homebrew case.

It's almost like you'd have to dose a small fraction wait a week, and keep repeating the protocol until your FG is in the ballpark you want.

My experience with glucoamylase is that it takes my beers to 1.000 or lower 100% of the time using a standard dose, even with 6 and 7 gallon batches.

 

[Beerstein]

Now that I'm thinking of it...maybe a solution is to separate [approximately] half the batch into a different fermenter, treat it with enzymes, let it finish fermenting, then blend back with the original. That you can adjust the ratio of 1.000 to 1.045 beer. [Then immediately cold crash after mixing]

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I had almost two quarts of fermented imperial stout (1.106 OG) that wouldn't fit in the kegs so I put it in a 2 liter soda bottle and just for grins added a teaspoon of glucoamylase and about that much of slurry and left it sealed tight sitting in the cellar.

A couple of months later that bottle was rock hard and the beer had gone from an FG of 1.023 down to 1.007 for an almost 13% ABV...and it was actually not bad at all. I was prepared for it to end up wicked thin - and it was thin, but not absurdly so. It was a pleasant surprise especially as we were hankering for some chocolate stout but were 150 miles north of my keezer

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

My experience with glucoamylase is that it takes my beers to 1.000 or lower 100% of the time using a standard dose, even with 6 and 7 gallon batches.

I suspect this would happen even if you lowered the dose. Like I said, it's an enzyme which means that it isn't consumed by the reaction it catalyzes. That plus its stability means that it will just keep going.

Now that I'm thinking of it...maybe a solution is to separate [approximately] half the batch into a different fermenter, treat it with enzymes, let it finish fermenting, then blend back with the original.

So you quoted my post without actually reading it? I suggested exactly that, except I threw in that you would probably also have to kill the gluco by heating the half of the batch that was treated.

 

[Beerstein]

I suspect this would happen even if you lowered the dose. Like I said, it's an enzyme which means that it isn't consumed by the reaction it catalyzes. That plus its stability means that it will just keep going.

So you quoted my post without actually reading it? I suggested exactly that, except I threw in that you would probably also have to kill the gluco by heating the half of the batch that was treated.

Sorry. I'm multi-tasking. I totally missed it. Great idea!