2011 AHA NHC - whatcha got?

[remilard]

That is what is really ticking me off about this. Did anyone consider the consistent annual rise in entry numbers for this competition before putting a judging site in the middle of nowhere?

Forget re-brewing for me. I can't re-brew every beer I submitted and will almost certainly not have time if any should advance now. Same for most folks I assume. The NE got shafted...

If you are talking APA, IPA stuff and you keg I think you can rebrew this weekend. If you really want it, you can do three batches in a day.

Not saying this isn't a hardship, but if you do get a delicate beer through I say get it rebrewed and at least give yourself some options.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

If you are talking APA, IPA stuff and you keg I think you can rebrew this weekend. If you really want it, you can do three batches in a day.

Not saying this isn't a hardship, but if you do get a delicate beer through I say get it rebrewed and at least give yourself some options.

I agree and as you mentioned earlier, it does give some an advantage over others. I really didn't think my Mild would advance but it did and I've had time to procure the right yeast, make a starter and rebrew the batch already. I'll probably rebrew it again with the cake so I'll have the original plus two rebrews to choose from.

Oceait, now I have no excuses.

 

[smizak]

If you are talking APA, IPA stuff and you keg I think you can rebrew this weekend. If you really want it, you can do three batches in a day.

Not saying this isn't a hardship, but if you do get a delicate beer through I say get it rebrewed and at least give yourself some options.

My biggest problem is room for fermentation space. I can only do one carboy at a time. Granted, I would probably have to choose between beers if more than one advanced. It's more or less the principal I suppose.

 

[TC167349]

Judges came from as far away as Buffalo (me), but there just weren't enough judges or sessions to get it done. I think it was just too expensive and at the wrong time (lots of spring break) to get people to show up in Saratoga Springs. I think some internal politics of the club running it caused a short turnout from the locals. Hopefully someone else will volunteer to do it next year.

 

[smizak]

Judges came from as far away as Buffalo (me), but there just weren't enough judges or sessions to get it done. I think it was just too expensive and at the wrong time (lots of spring break) to get people to show up in Saratoga Springs. I think some internal politics of the club running it caused a short turnout from the locals. Hopefully someone else will volunteer to do it next year.

Good on you.

I would have joined in if I had the time, at least to steward. That's a long haul. Would love to judge, if I can ever get an exam spot. Three were just scheduled for B'lo next year and I think they're all filled, two for sure, didn't hear back about the third.

 

[AnOldUR]

Finally some hope for the Northeast . . .

Saratoga Springs, NY - Competition Completed May 4 - Processing 5/6

Might just see something by the end of the day?

 

[remilard]

Good on you.

I would have joined in if I had the time, at least to steward. That's a long haul. Would love to judge, if I can ever get an exam spot. Three were just scheduled for B'lo next year and I think they're all filled, two for sure, didn't hear back about the third.

Get on waiting lists, people drop out. It is typical for an exam to have 10 or more people on a waiting list and then there are empty seats on exam day. If you are on a waiting list and prepared to show up if you get a call at the last minute, you have an excellent shot. You have to take that risk though.

Under the current system, you pretty well need to know the guy sponsoring the exam because he will have the spots filled before it ever gets published on the BJCP calendar. The demand is that high.

Hopefully by sometime next year the new system (described in the top news item at the BJCP site) will be in place and the essay exam will only be for people trying for National or high. Certified and Recognized will be attainable via a MC/TF and a tasting exam, both with no limits on scheduling.

 

[y498yates]

I got called in from the bullpen to judge on this competition when our guys got overwhelmed. You would not believe the amount of work these two put in and the amazing number of entries. I know I'm a little biased, but cut the fellas some slack. We had 12 judges working on 4 tables for IPA's alone! Anyone who has judged knows that after the 12th IPA, fair judging starts to get a lot more difficult.

I'm going to be running the 16th Knickerbocker Battle of the Brews on November 12, 2011 and hopefully we'll have time to get enough judges to rate all our flights with a reasonable number of beers per judge. For those of you interested in judging [or brewing!] keep this date in mind. We can always use the help.

I don't know who won the show but I will say that the better beers in the 4 flights I covered over two days really set themselves apart from the rest. I know there were a couple of barrel aged beers that *I* really liked. Also, a good tip for anyone submitting beers, the Black IPA's that are becoming more and more popular are really tough to judge. Unless you have a tremendous beer, it will be tough to get that style through to the head table until the BJCP decides to make it a new style and gives us some better guidance. The rating spread between judges seemed to be universally most divided on this style. Take it for what it's worth!

Keep Brewing!

 

[y498yates]

As for Saratoga. Hard to imagine there will be a first round again there any time soon. I could have judged 750 beers in less time with a few guys from my club. At some point you have to buck up and do three rounds each weekend and a couple of evenings during the week if that is the only way to finish.

The problem with doing too many beers/flights is that it isn't fair to the brewers. Your palate hits the wall at some point.

The more egregious sin was the round they judged over two days with beers sitting opened over night.

This is simply an untrue statement. You honestly believe a beer lover, never mind a home brewer and competition organizer, would allow this to happen??? Every single beer was opened at the table by the steward. Part of judging is judging the bottle and fill. You can't do that with a pre-opened beer... I can also tell you that they did a great job of keeping the beers at a good temperature. Nothing sat outside the cooler for longer than an hour and nothing sat in the sun.

 

[remilard]

The problem with doing too many beers/flights is that it isn't fair to the brewers. Your palate hits the wall at some point.

Three in a day is fine. I've done it many times myself.

This is simply an untrue statement. You honestly believe a beer lover, never mind a home brewer and competition organizer, would allow this to happen??? Every single beer was opened at the table by the steward. Part of judging is judging the bottle and fill. You can't do that with a pre-opened beer... I can also tell you that they did a great job of keeping the beers at a good temperature. Nothing sat outside the cooler for longer than an hour and nothing sat in the sun.

Stewards shouldn't be opening the bottles IMO, but that is a different issue.

It may be untrue, were you there every day until the judging finished so that you can say it didn't happen, because someone that was there said it did.

 

[doctorRobert]

Part of judging is judging the bottle and fill. You can't do that with a pre-opened beer... .

Can you elaborate on that? What does the fill and bottle have to do with the beer?

Thanks - I'm not being a smart ass I really want to know. I've heard arguements saying you can be marked down for over filling, but I thought that is what you wanted to do if you are filling from a keg.

 

[remilard]

Can you elaborate on that? What does the fill and bottle have to do with the beer?

Thanks - I'm not being a smart ass I really want to know. I've heard arguements saying you can be marked down for over filling, but I thought that is what you wanted to do if you are filling from a keg.

You look at the bottle and note things like a low or high fill, or a ring around the neck. That is not part of the judging unless it needs to be. If there is a problem with the beer, and what you noted about the appearance could be related, you can include that in your feedback. It is supposed to be the beer and not the bottle being judged. A lot of judges don't get that though. You'll occasionally get lectures on scoresheets if you fill high out of a keg. That is part of the variability of judging.

 

[y498yates]

No problem, this is where we learn, right?!

Check this link here for a pdf of the score sheet. If you look under the special ingredients section, there is a section there on bottle inspection.

Udpate: yeah, pretty much what remilard said. Really, *I* am just making sure I note if there is an under/overfill [which can affect carbonation] b/c it could change my comments if there is a flaw [flat or over carb to style]. I'm also not going to drink out of a bottle with a rusty cap [without wiping it off, anyway] or I will note if there was a poor seal.

 

[y498yates]

It may be untrue, were you there every day until the judging finished so that you can say it didn't happen, because someone that was there said it did.

Granted, I wasn't there for day 1 [I wasn't allowed to blow off my niece's Confirmation for beer judging ] but I was there for day 2. I know we opened all of our bottles at the table, as I said above, and nobody was recapping beers. I can say with 99.9% certainty that they weren't recapping on day 1 either, but I can shoot an email to the organizer to be 100% sure if you guys want me to.

 

[remilard]

Granted, I wasn't there for day 1 [I wasn't allowed to blow off my niece's Confirmation for beer judging ] but I was there for day 2. I know we opened all of our bottles at the table, as I said above, and nobody was recapping beers. I can say with 99.9% certainty that they weren't recapping on day 1 either, but I can shoot an email to the organizer to be 100% sure if you guys want me to.

You should be recapping them for mini-bos...

The allegation is that some of the beers were opened on day x, and the flight was finished on day x+1 such that for mini-bos some of the beers had been opened to be judged the prior day.

 

[y498yates]

Our mini-bos was done immediately, so recapping wasn't really necessary. We all judged our 10 IPA's, let's say as an example, and put our top 3 on the table. Then we rated those in order for a winner and went on to the next style.

There weren't any categories that carried over into a 2nd day. What they did, that was actually a really good idea, was rate all of the smaller categories first while they knew they had the judges. We took on some of the bigger categories on day 2 and knocked out a big chunk of the entries.

 

[remilard]

Our mini-bos was done immediately, so recapping wasn't really necessary. We all judged our 10 IPA's, let's say as an example, and put our top 3 on the table. Then we rated those in order for a winner and went on to the next style.

There weren't any categories that carried over into a 2nd day. What they did, that was actually a really good idea, was rate all of the smaller categories first while they knew they had the judges. We took on some of the bigger categories on day 2 and knocked out a big chunk of the entries.

It takes at least 90 minutes to judge those 10 IPAs, best practice is to immediately recap the opened beers and put them back in the cooler. That way you aren't judging beer 1 which has been open for 2 hours in a 70F room against beer 2 which has been open 10 minutes in a 70F room.

I'm fairly sure the NHC site organizer handbook proscribes this method.

 

[y498yates]

I'm fairly sure the NHC site organizer handbook proscribes this method.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/MiniBOS.pdf

In a 1-bottle competition (such as the AHA NHC first round) or a 2-bottle competition (most competitions with a traditional BOS), the first bottle must be used for both the primary judging and the mini-BOS. It is very important that judges reserve enough of the entry so that it can be judged again. Quick recapping and cold storage will also help preserve the entry.

While I agree that you want the beers served at close to the same temperature, I don't know that recapping a 1/2 full bottle [at best] does much of anything to preserve the carbonation. Just for clarity, I place the cap back on the beer by hand [mostly to keep dust or what have you out] but I don't consider that "recapping" [you know, crimping the cap back on]. I will feel like an idiot if you meant the former rather than the later!

Interestingly, the guide also says this:

The mini-BOS judges are told the entry number and style, but not prior scores. Some competitions choose to re-label the bottles to disguise the identity of the entry so that judges will have a harder time using knowledge from the initial round of judging. This can be logistically difficult to manage, but may help ensure blind judging.

I don't know that I've seen this done before but I like the idea. [notes for KBOTB!]

 

[pkeeler]

Look, thanks to any judges who volunteered in Saratoga Springs. But there is no denying it has been a epic fail. Since some of the entry fee is to cover later rounds, the AHA should give 50% refunds to anyone whose beers made it to the second round but don't have time to rebrew. The idea that people should rebrew all their beers just in case is ludicrous. This effects everyone, as now people in other regions might move forward or win simply because so many Saratoga entries will not be in the second round.

Why not move back the second round date? Saratoga is one month late, at a minimum, move the second round entry date back one month.

This is a big important competition, but obviously the AHA and BJCP have not been taking this seriously. Why the limitation on sites anyway? Why have one site for the entire Northeast (what, 50 million people?) in such an out of the way place? How do you set up any site without knowing there are enough judges for 750 entries? Who is suppose to be organizing this stuff?

Thanks to any BJCP judge that helped out. However, anyone with BJCP certificaton within 100 miles of Saratoga Springs, who didn't help, should have their certification pulled.

While I'm on my soapbox, it is also an absolute disgrace that I have to come to this forum to get any news at all. You brew your beer, submit it, expect a scoresheet in the mail in mid-April, and they haven't even ended judging. Yet, nothing from the AHA (they have our emails and addresses) and nothing on their website at all. It is just a joke. There should have been an apology everyday and an update.

 

[Bokonon]

Why not move back the second round date? Saratoga is one month late, at a minimum, move the second round entry date back one month.

And reschedule the whole conference?

While I'm on my soapbox, it is also an absolute disgrace that I have to come to this forum to get any news at all. You brew your beer, submit it, expect a scoresheet in the mail in mid-April, and they haven't even ended judging. Yet, nothing from the AHA (they have our emails and addresses) and nothing on their website at all. It is just a joke. There should have been an apology everyday and an update.

An update page like this: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/competitions/national-homebrew-competition

That has been constantly updated as competition results were received and being processed?

 

[y498yates]

My understanding is that everything was turned in already. I believe they should have the site updated really soon.

As far as your comment about judges goes, it would have been nice to have more help but pulling cards seems a tad extreme!

Update: I was about to post the event link showing the update has gone through but bokonon beat me to it. Thanks, brother!

 

[remilard]

Results are up (except Lodi which has a repeat of Madison). I have Paul Sangster of QUAFF as the top qualifier with 9. Since he has homecourt advantage, he is the clear favorite.

Without seeing the Lodi results, but having heard how many they advanced, I think DOZE is looking good for club of the year. I didn't see enough Brewing Network entries to think they have DOZE beat, but they are very spread out and I'm not interested in counting them ATM.

 

[Beerrific]

Just as an aside to the last back and forth about re-capping....

These things are a life saver:


Granted, they will not hold carbonation for a whole bottle, but they prevent complete loss, limit excess oxygen, and will save your ass if you knock them over. If the beer scores over a 30 or so, cap it with one of these bad boys and who cares if you re-cap 5 per flight, you can reuse them.

 

[AnOldUR]

Results are up . . .

ChinOak IPA . . . movin’ on !

I don't know who won the show but I will say that the better beers in the 4 flights I covered over two days really set themselves apart from the rest. I know there were a couple of barrel aged beers that *I* really liked.

Not sure if I'm included in this compliment, but I'll take it anyway. Thank-you sir.

 

[Bobby_M]

Woooo!

 

[wonderbread23]

3 going to the 2nd round of NHC for me (all placed 2nd). Not too shabby.

 

[remilard]

3 going to the 2nd round of NHC for me (all placed 2nd). Not too shabby.

Nice!

 

[y498yates]

These things are a life saver...

You know, we had a bag of those on the table and I only used them on the beers I mangled the caps on?

Not sure if I'm included in this compliment, but I'll take it anyway. Thank-you sir.

I'm guessing you probably are if you came out of Saratoga so congrats! You won't have any tasting notes from me, unfortunately, but I was a judge for the best in flight on those and they were damn tasty!

I saw someone else advanced with a Black IPA [2NobleDogs, maybe?]. As I said earlier, they are really tough to judge so that brew must have really knocked their socks off. Let us know how you do going forward!

3 going to the 2nd round of NHC for me (all placed 2nd). Not too shabby.

Way to go!

 

[Zen_Brew]

I've got two moving on to the second round and I will be in San Diego and have the full conference package. It would be sweet if I could sneak one into placing and be there when it's announced.

 

[AnOldUR]

I sent three up to Saratoga, but only my OIPA made it through. Another was an American Wheat that advanced last year and the last was the Orfry's Mild that was brewed as part of the HBT mini-comp. The Orfry's was past its prime for a session beer, but I'm a little disappointed that the Wheat didn't make it. Still, it's a tough competition, so I feel really lucky to have the one advance.

Notice that I'm the only one on the First Round Winners page who used HBT as their club affiliation. It’s sad that I ‘m not part of a local club, but even with its rough spots, I appreciate the knowledge and support I get from my “imaginary friends.” Thanks.







edit:
Just saw that pjj2ba got two through in the Madison Judging Center and also credited HBT. Congrats!

 

[2NobleDogs]

I saw someone else advanced with a Black IPA [2NobleDogs, maybe?]. As I said earlier, they are really tough to judge so that brew must have really knocked their socks off. Let us know how you do going forward!

My Black IPA did make it through. Thanks. Nobody was more surprised than I was. Got some good feedback as well. I'll keep you posted.

 

[SourHopHead]

My 1 entry did not advance. Funniest comment was my Cream Ale was pink. Must have been a long judging day. None of the 5 remaining bottles were pink.

 

[bovineblitz]

If you are talking APA, IPA stuff and you keg I think you can rebrew this weekend. If you really want it, you can do three batches in a day.

Not saying this isn't a hardship, but if you do get a delicate beer through I say get it rebrewed and at least give yourself some options.

May 8 and no results yet... def can't get a bottle conditioned beer done in time for round 2.

 

[Ender]

uhh, results are up. They were posted yesterday I think
http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...-competition/winners/2011-first-round-winners

 

[pjj2ba]

I sent three up to Saratoga, but only my OIPA made it through. .....
Notice that I'm the only one on the First Round Winners page who used HBT as their club affiliation. It’s sad that I ‘m not part of a local club, but even with its rough spots, I appreciate the knowledge and support I get from my “imaginary friends.” Thanks.

edit:
Just saw that pjj2ba got two through in the Madison Judging Center and also credited HBT. Congrats!

Back at Ya!!!
I was a bit concerned going to Madison. I was late registering and that was the closest region left. That plus I had my beers all JUST freshly kegged and carbed. I then hooked up a new CO2 tank, opened it, but forgot to turn the valve on. I pulled maybe 4-5 pints from each keg to clear out the yeast without realizing I wasn't adding any CO2 back. I only discovered this when I went to bottle, 4 days before the deadline to arrive in Madison. The lager got dinged for poor carbonation. That has now been fixed! This is the second time this recipe has advanced and I think this batch is one of the best.

I have high hopes for my Kolsch. I pushed the limits on flavor hops. I thought this and the judges agreed. That should tone done just right for the Nationals

 

[ayoungrad]

I sent three up to Saratoga, but only my OIPA made it through. Another was an American Wheat that advanced last year and the last was the Orfry's Mild that was brewed as part of the HBT mini-comp. The Orfry's was past its prime for a session beer, but I'm a little disappointed that the Wheat didn't make it. Still, it's a tough competition, so I feel really lucky to have the one advance.

Yeah, I had an American Wheat that scored a 44 and 1st place in a local competition in early April. Same batch and no advancing for me in NHC. Must be some incredible beers in light hybrid this year. Congrats to those that advanced....

 

[physast]

How is everyone getting the scores? Are these online?

 

[bovineblitz]

How is everyone getting the scores? Are these online?

No idea. Mine went to Saratoga.

 

[physast]

No idea. Mine went to Saratoga.

I sent mine to saratoga as well.

 

[2NobleDogs]

I sent mine to saratoga as well.

Not 100% sure about this but I think everybody got their scroresheets either through email or regular mail. Everybody except Saratoga. Those should be on their way.