2011 AHA NHC - whatcha got?

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Wow. The scores must be really competitive all over the place. Scoring over 40 and not placing is tough competition. But those are great scores SpanishCastleAle...
Thanks. I'm pleased overall except for the RIS (but it was my first RIS ever).

It appears my Helles had the higher score going into the mini-BOS (I scored 41.5 avg and the results sheet says highest score was 41) but that happens. I think once you get to mini-BOS it's merely a "this one is better than that one" thing. Must have been tight at the top in that category.
 
Some fine scores in there. Congratulations. I was looking to see if you’d go for a repeat with your ESB that scored gold in the final round last year. Good luck this year!
Thanks. I didn't have an ESB ready for NHC. Just Sunday I brewed an ESB for the US Open Beer Championship. Winners from the previous year's NHC get an entry into it. But it'll be up against commercial beers so I'm not expecting much.
 
I'm in!

I was late in getting signed up so I ended up having to send my brews to Madison instead of the old NE region. I was worried as there are some pretty serious lager brewers in the Upper Midwest.

My Orange Kitty Zoom, a std Amer. Lager took 2nd with 33 pts. Apparently went on to the mini BOS. It's actually modeled after a cheap Euro lager (Orangeboom) but there is no category for that.

My Kolsch took 1st with 39 pts! It's the first time I've ever entered it. It never has been ready in time. Even this was just 6 weeks from brew date to judging

My Marzen scored a 33. It was not my best effort

I submitted an Irish red out of curiosity. It was pretty average and very drinkable. It scored a 28
 
So, the day before an attempt to finish what they started four weeks ago, and they still don't have enough judges?
 
Max 43
Min 40.5
Avg 42

BTW, I think Dallas screwed those up. They should be for the whole category but if you look at them they are obviously just for the beers in mini-bos.

As for Saratoga. Hard to imagine there will be a first round again there any time soon. I could have judged 750 beers in less time with a few guys from my club. At some point you have to buck up and do three rounds each weekend and a couple of evenings during the week if that is the only way to finish. The more egregious sin was the round they judged over two days with beers sitting opened over night.

I think Dallas should probably not be used in the future. They have the judges but they clearly aren't interesting in judging the month after Blue Bonnet. But compared to Saratoga, Dallas look like champs.

I'll give Nashville a pass on not finishing in the first weekend because:

1. They had severe weather that weekend so a lot of people canceled plans to travel.
2. They man-ed up and kept judging through the week to get it done ASAP.
 
The more egregious sin was the round they judged over two days with beers sitting opened over night.

WTF!? Where do I get my refund... if my scoresheets are anywhere nearly as poorly done as last year, I'm going to raise holy hell with the NHC.
 
WTF!? Where do I get my refund... if my scoresheets are anywhere nearly as poorly done as last year, I'm going to raise holy hell with the NHC.

If you have any bad sheets you should feel free to email them to Janis and CC the local organizer. This is, ostensibly, the premier homebrewing competition in the world and I hope the AHA is serious about quality control.

My guess is Saratoga is already blacklisted. Too many things went wrong and it doesn't make sense as a site anyway (too far from areas with a high concentration of judges).

IMO, Philly is the natural place to do one out East but obviously you have to compel someone there to organize it. Some other cities like Cleveland make sense. Maybe even NYC if you could find a location. Not a ton of judges there but a lot of judges could get there on Amtrack and turn it into a fun long weekend. I was willing to fly to Denver to judge, having no nearby judging site, because they judging was within walking distance of a lot of good beer bars and breweries, in a city with great transportation walking distance doesn't matter as much.
 
Got my score sheets back from Indy earlier in the week. Wow, I got grilled, my west coast style IIPA received a 26.5, ouch!!

A national judge wrote that it didn't have enough malt back bone. I might be wrong here but west coast IIPA's aren't supposed to have malt backbone. Especially since I noted it was a west coast style.

Oh well, competitions are a crap-shoot, there's always next year.
 
Got my score sheets back from Indy earlier in the week. Wow, I got grilled, my west coast style IIPA received a 26.5, ouch!!

A national judge wrote that it didn't have enough malt back bone. I might be wrong here but west coast IIPA's aren't supposed to have malt backbone. Especially since I noted it was a west coast style.

Oh well, competitions are a crap-shoot, there's always next year.

" Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels." There should be some malt there but it should only be there as a supporting role to the hops.

In general the judges won't see your special ingredients/info unless it is a category that allows/requires it. So putting something down for a IIPA shouldn't make it to the judges
 
Got my score sheets back from Indy earlier in the week. Wow, I got grilled, my west coast style IIPA received a 26.5, ouch!!

A national judge wrote that it didn't have enough malt back bone. I might be wrong here but west coast IIPA's aren't supposed to have malt backbone. Especially since I noted it was a west coast style.

Oh well, competitions are a crap-shoot, there's always next year.

From BJCP 2008 Imperial IPA:

"High to absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will generally support the strong hop character and provide the best balance."

I bet your IIPA tastes awesome. But if it doesn't fit exactly into the category...
 
BTW, I think Dallas screwed those up. They should be for the whole category but if you look at them they are obviously just for the beers in mini-bos.

As for Saratoga. Hard to imagine there will be a first round again there any time soon. I could have judged 750 beers in less time with a few guys from my club. At some point you have to buck up and do three rounds each weekend and a couple of evenings during the week if that is the only way to finish. The more egregious sin was the round they judged over two days with beers sitting opened over night.

I think Dallas should probably not be used in the future. They have the judges but they clearly aren't interesting in judging the month after Blue Bonnet. But compared to Saratoga, Dallas look like champs.

I'll give Nashville a pass on not finishing in the first weekend because:

1. They had severe weather that weekend so a lot of people canceled plans to travel.
2. They man-ed up and kept judging through the week to get it done ASAP.
I didn't realize those were supposed to be for the whole category but yeah they are obv just the top beers.

Why did they not use Atlanta this year? Have they done OK in the past? The locations this year sure made it a long trip for any Floridians to judge.
 
I didn't realize those were supposed to be for the whole category but yeah they are obv just the top beers.

Why did they not use Atlanta this year? Have they done OK in the past? The locations this year sure made it a long trip for any Floridians to judge.

Dunno, I assume nobody there wanted to do it.

Florida would be a good location, with three new Master judges in the last few months.
 
Max 43
Min 40.5
Avg 42

Hmmm, I sent my IPA (got a 39) to Dallas too, and had been wondering the same thing. And my scoresheet says it made it to the mini BOS round...maybe those are the scores of the three that moved on? In the chaos that is mini BOS some higher scores may have just gotten left out.
 
Hmmm, I sent my IPA (got a 39) to Dallas too, and had been wondering the same thing. And my scoresheet says it made it to the mini BOS round...maybe those are the scores of the three that moved on? In the chaos that is mini BOS some higher scores may have just gotten left out.

That makes sense, I think you are right.

If you look at first round results from last year, the intention is clearly to have the numbers represent all of the entries in the category.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...winners/2010-first-round-winners/south-region

Either way, not terribly important info and it will get corrected on the official results.
 
From BJCP 2008 Imperial IPA:

"High to absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will generally support the strong hop character and provide the best balance."

I bet your IIPA tastes awesome. But if it doesn't fit exactly into the category...

Thanks for the kind words guys. The hopiness of it is pretty absurd, used 21 oz. for a 5 gallon batch. It was the Hair of the Dog Blue Dot clone out of BYO's 250 Classic clone book.

Also, it did use pilsner base malt and I was 8th in the flight. I can see how it would "pale" in comparison to the others in the flight. Yuk yuk
 
Thanks for the kind words guys. The hopiness of it is pretty absurd, used 21 oz. for a 5 gallon batch. It was the Hair of the Dog Blue Dot clone out of BYO's 250 Classic clone book.

Also, it did use pilsner base malt and I was 8th in the flight. I can see how it would "pale" in comparison to the others in the flight. Yuk yuk

Interesting, I was going to find your previous post and suggest that using pilsner malt vs 2-row is a good way to make the malt come out in an IIPA without making it sweet. A little of something like aromatic and/or biscuit can work too. I like to use zero crystal malt.

21 ounces of hops is a lot but I do about 12-13 after the boil (whirlpool and dry) with hop extract for bittering and that usually does pretty well.
 
So some of you Dallas guys have gotten your score sheets back already? I'm still impatiently waiting.
 
So some of you Dallas guys have gotten your score sheets back already? I'm still impatiently waiting.

Leroy posted on the AHA Forum that he started scanning and emailing them then realized it was too labor intensive and snail mailed the rest. They had all gone out USPS by yesterday (Saturday).
 
Any word if Saratoga finally finished this weekend? And how many people are sending their entries to Seattle next year instead? :rolleyes:
 
Any word if Saratoga finally finished this weekend? And how many people are sending their entries to Seattle next year instead? :rolleyes:

Yeah I'm probably not doing Saratoga again.

As for Saratoga. Hard to imagine there will be a first round again there any time soon. I could have judged 750 beers in less time with a few guys from my club. At some point you have to buck up and do three rounds each weekend and a couple of evenings during the week if that is the only way to finish. The more egregious sin was the round they judged over two days with beers sitting opened over night.

Yikes. Did anyone hear what category that is? If my beer was in that group I'll be pretty angry... I was already a little disappointed because my main entry is meant to be drank fresh and has lost some character over the past month, but that is just ridiculous.
 
Any word if Saratoga finally finished this weekend?


:eek:

Re: Judges Needed To Finish NHC 1st Round - SARATOGA SPRINGS, NY - Help!
« Reply #2 on: Today at 03:06:33 PM » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Centpa,

They were able to judge most of the remaining entries over the weekend, but they have a couple left to judge. The organizer is trying to get those judged early this week. They are almost done.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers,
Janis
 
Yeah, I think everyone has been immensely patient considering the size of the task, but Saratoga just flat out dropped the ball. You can spin it how you want, but we are talking epic fail!

The entire nationwide release of entry notices for the next round is being held up now by Saratoga. New York has not helped itself in a bid for hosting the NHC with this showing. Why on earth didn't they put it closer driving distance to the city?
 
Yeah, I think everyone has been immensely patient considering the size of the task, but Saratoga just flat out dropped the ball. You can spin it how you want, but we are talking epic fail!

The entire nationwide release of entry notices for the next round is being held up now by Saratoga. New York has not helped itself in a bid for hosting the NHC with this showing. Why on earth didn't they put it closer driving distance to the city?

I'm not sure what is going on over there so I won't comment on it, but right now the release isn't to the point of being held up waiting for their results. The Nashville results are being processed now and the Canadian results are up next. They seem to take half a day to a whole (business) day to process so it won't be until probably Wed that they will be actually holding it up.

If they are able to finish up their judging tonight or tomorrow then I don't think there will be any delay. Personally I was expecting the results to be released on Thursday or Friday anyways since it does take time to assimilate each database into the master. IIRC last year there was even one database that was in some funky state that required an extra day or two of processing
 
Why did they not use Atlanta this year? Have they done OK in the past? The locations this year sure made it a long trip for any Floridians to judge.

Atlanta wanted and was ready but was not asked to host. Nashville was instead.

I was unfortunately unable to go up and judge. An 8+ hour round trip drive, plus >$200 for the hotel, plus $$ for food makes it a tough sell for my wallet and the wife.
 
Atlanta wanted and was ready but was not asked to host. Nashville was instead.

I was unfortunately unable to go up and judge. An 8+ hour round trip drive, plus >$200 for the hotel, plus $$ for food makes it a tough sell for my wallet and the wife.

That is, to put it lightly, hard to understand. AFAIK Atlanta ran just fine last year. There is a good concentration of judges there. On paper (and now in practice) much better than many of the sites that were used.

Is the point just to move them around and let everyone get a chance (sorta like how people can't just lose in this competition they have to get a participation certificate)?
 
That is, to put it lightly, hard to understand. AFAIK Atlanta ran just fine last year. There is a good concentration of judges there. On paper (and now in practice) much better than many of the sites that were used.

Is the point just to move them around and let everyone get a chance (sorta like how people can't just lose in this competition they have to get a participation certificate)?

It is hard to understand. The only facts that I am certain about is that Atlanta was willing and expecting to host it again after 2 years of successful judging. My best guess at the other side of events was that Nashville had been asking in the past and in order to keep things fair they moved it there. (The South location has moved around in the past: FL, NC, GA, and now TN).

I think that is fine. I know a lot of great guys that are judges in TN and they put on some great local club-sponsored comps. But, it is just tough to have one location like that and you basically wall it off to judges participating. There are a lot of judges in NC, GA, and FL that probably did not make the drive for the reasons I said before.

750 entries will push the limits of almost any city to get judges out and seat 2 quality judges per entry. A lot of locations result in using novice, non-BJCP judges, which is not necessarily bad, but sometimes I think these novices are doing the organizers a favor more than wanting to learn to judge.

First year I sent in entries to the Nationals the scoresheets were crap. The novice judges mimic the crap that the "higher ranking" judges put down. At that point I decided that I wanted to start judging so that I could criticize. Judging is not easy, but properly filling out a scoresheet should be, if it is not easy, then stop judging.

Personally, at least in the south, it would make sense to split the judging sites to 2 or 3. To prevent it from becoming highly regional or a repeat of a club sponsored comp, you could split the location by categories. For example, Nashville could take cats 1-7, Atlanta 8-15, and Asheville 16-23 (or whatever, that is an example). You could even use one shipping location and have someone drive them (AHA could reimburse the gas or whatever). This way you have more quality judges and less work for those judges to do.

Or you could just have 2 locations with 400 entries each. The problem is not with cities willing to host, the problem is that 750 entries is too much.

Asking a judge to spend nearly $300 to go judge the regionals for 2 maybe 2.5 judging points is a lot.

(This should not be taken as a criticism of Nashville. It sounds like they did a good job. I am merely using it as an example as to how the system is set up to exclude a lot of judge and not guarantee success.)
 
Well why it is so puzzling is that there are no regions anymore. Nashville and Atlanta could both have been sites instead of choosing one and having Saratoga which makes no sense because there are no judges there and Dallas which Janis admitted she was reluctant to use because having first round there after Blue Bonnet has been an issue in the past.

If you have to use St. Paul, San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, Florida, Denver and Atlanta then who cares since the region concept is gone? Let's take advantage of this new region-less paradigm to pick the optimal cities and not geographically diverse cities.
 
I think the split judging sites isn't a bad idea. You have to receive everything in one place and sort it I think, and then ship (refrigerated) half of them to the satellite site.
 
If you have to use St. Paul, San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, Florida, Denver and Atlanta then who cares since the region concept is gone? Let's take advantage of this new region-less paradigm to pick the optimal cities and not geographically diverse cities.

I agree. And if you can get more cities to commit you can reduce the entries/city which will alleviate judging stress and result in a better competition for everyone (organizers, judges, and entrants) except maybe Janis.
 
having Saratoga which makes no sense because there are no judges there

That is what is really ticking me off about this. Did anyone consider the consistent annual rise in entry numbers for this competition before putting a judging site in the middle of nowhere?

Forget re-brewing for me. I can't re-brew every beer I submitted and will almost certainly not have time if any should advance now. Same for most folks I assume. The NE got shafted...
 

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