2 Vessel BruControl RIMS 15 Gallon Brewery Build

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augiedoggy said:
I did not have good luck with the buck boost dc power converters they worked but seem to fluctuate. In fairness I didnt buy expensive ones. I went with a 5 or 7 amp 24v supply and a 3 amp 12v supply which was overkill but I had the same thoughts about using the 12v for other things like fans and such I even had a 5v supply in my panel while troubleshooting spikes from electrical noise.
Click to expand...

Same here, no good experience with boost dc converters but the reducing dc converters has been working great.
 
BrunDog said:
Several ideas here... I think that having multiple PS's gives you options for the future. Ideally everything runs off 12 or 24, but invariable there is going to be a 5V needed somewhere!
Click to expand...
I was going to run only 12v--all of my valves are 12v and I figured I could run any 5v stuff off of the MEGA, but I did not want to overload the MEGA's power circuits, so I bought a small 5v psu. Then I got a 24v voltage transducer, so I got a cheap boost DC transformer to run that from the 12v psu. The boost transformer blew a capacitor (and scared the sh*t out of me--I thought I'd shorted the big 240v wires or something!) the third or fourth time I powered it up, so now I have a 24v psu as well.
 
Okay, so I've kind of screwed up...

I was planning on controlling my brew system via wifi, and it has taken me this long to discover that it is not recommended. Definitely my fault. That said, I purchased a used Microsoft Surface Pro 3 to use as a touchscreen HMI. I have installed BruControl software onto it and activate the software. It has a USB 3.0 port, but no ethernet port.

Option 1 -- buy a USB to ethernet adapter to plug into the tablet, then buy an ethernet shield for the MEGA and connect to the MEGA that way
Option 2 -- connect to the MEGA using USB only

possible option 3, is the problem with wifi control inherent to all wifi or is it specific to the wifi shield? I have a spare wifi range extender that has 4 ethernet ports. I could connect the MEGA to the wired ethernet port of the range extender.

Feeling kind of dumb right now.
 
Gameface said:
Okay, so I've kind of screwed up...

I was planning on controlling my brew system via wifi, and it has taken me this long to discover that it is not recommended. Definitely my fault. That said, I purchased a used Microsoft Surface Pro 3 to use as a touchscreen HMI. I have installed BruControl software onto it and activate the software. It has a USB 3.0 port, but no ethernet port.

Option 1 -- buy a USB to ethernet adapter to plug into the tablet, then buy an ethernet shield for the MEGA and connect to the MEGA that way
Option 2 -- connect to the MEGA using USB only

possible option 3, is the problem with wifi control inherent to all wifi or is it specific to the wifi shield? I have a spare wifi range extender that has 4 ethernet ports. I could connect the MEGA to the wired ethernet port of the range extender.

Feeling kind of dumb right now.
Click to expand...
Small bonus question...

I purchased the arduino w/screw shield and external wifi shield from @BrunDog I'm assuming it is the screw shield that needs soldering to allow the additional (wifi, ethernet, whathaveu) shield to be added, but that I will be able to remove the wifi shield and add an ethernet one without soldering? If that's the case I'm totally good to go. I plan to use Brucontrol on the fermentation side somewhat soon and I'll just repurpose the wifi for that application. If not it's not the end of the world but will require some extra work.
 
Heck no... if we left that impression, apologies. We'll fix it - just confirm where you saw that. I know our manual states that it may not be ideal for timing critical tasks... but since then, we have learned that it is performing very well. No reservations on WiFi.
 
Shipping info received for my Spike Brewing order!
2x CF15 Unitanks w/heating and cooling package
2x 30gal custom kettles. Ordered on the 18th, shipped on the 23rd.
TONS of accessories.

Crazy fast turnaround for custom kettles.
 
I'll be able to plug my new equipment into my existing 50A panel and use it in manual non/brucontrol mode until I receive a few more items and get my panel built.

Penguin 1/2hp glycol chiller is on the way. This is something I strongly considered as a DIY project, but ended up going with a commercially built chiller.
 
So one of the packages from my Spike order got orphaned so my Mash Tun and both CF15 Unitanks got here today. Boil Kettle here on Monday.

I am somewhat slightly concerned about fermenting 15gal batches in the CF15 unitank. I thought total volume was 18gal, but the markings go up to 17 and there's only another 1/4 or so more space until the top.

Anyway, exciting day! I'll take pics soon.
 
How easy would it be to go with a brewpi vs brewcontrol? I think the BCS could also be an option, I don't think I need any more I/O than it has.

Also, what is a good source for electronic valves that meet the needs of brewing?
 
I can’t speak for Brewpi but I do have a BCS-460 (older version than the new one). It’s been ok but I’m switching to BruControl for a few reasons:

1. The I/O is too limiting. On mine, it’s 6 outputs and 4 temperature inputs. Not enough for what I want
2. Communication is twitchy. I have tons of issues trying to connect to it over my wireless network. Really stinks when you drop communication right in the middle of a brew session. It works best when connected directly to your router via an Ethernet cable. Most people don’t have routers in their brewing area.
3. The PID control is limiting. You can only assign PID parameters to a single output and an output can have only one set of parameters. Makes it difficult to manage different batch sizes, flow rates, sparge water heating, etc.
4. The state based control isn’t intuitive. I learned how to make it work, but I’d like something more user friendly.
 
Wizard_of_Frobozz said:
I can’t speak for Brewpi but I do have a BCS-460 (older version than the new one). It’s been ok but I’m switching to BruControl for a few reasons:

1. The I/O is too limiting. On mine, it’s 6 outputs and 4 temperature inputs. Not enough for what I want
2. Communication is twitchy. I have tons of issues trying to connect to it over my wireless network. Really stinks when you drop communication right in the middle of a brew session. It works best when connected directly to your router via an Ethernet cable. Most people don’t have routers in their brewing area.
3. The PID control is limiting. You can only assign PID parameters to a single output and an output can have only one set of parameters. Makes it difficult to manage different batch sizes, flow rates, sparge water heating, etc.
4. The state based control isn’t intuitive. I learned how to make it work, but I’d like something more user friendly.
Click to expand...
So you already have all the valves and other sensors you need, mostly just switching to the software?

Do you mind if I ask where you got your valves?
 
Gameface said:
So you already have all the valves and other sensors you need, mostly just switching to the software?

Do you mind if I ask where you got your valves?
Click to expand...

No automatic valves...yet. Basic manual stainless ball valves for now. I will switch to Brundog’s proportional and motorized valves eventually.

I do have 4 temperature probes but I want at least two more to monitor my water temperatures in and out of the chiller. BruControl works with the thermistors that are part of my BCS system. I’ll repurpose them as well as the relay board, breakers, contactors, and enclosure.

So mostly reusing all my old stuff. Very little won’t get incorporated into the BruControl system. Just the BCS itself won’t be part of the new setup.
 
Wizard_of_Frobozz said:
No automatic valves...yet. Basic manual stainless ball valves for now. I will switch to Brundog’s proportional and motorized valves eventually.

I do have 4 temperature probes but I want at least two more to monitor my water temperatures in and out of the chiller. BruControl works with the thermistors that are part of my BCS system. I’ll repurpose them as well as the relay board, breakers, contactors, and enclosure.

So mostly reusing all my old stuff. Very little won’t get incorporated into the BruControl system. Just the BCS itself won’t be part of the new setup.
Click to expand...
I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.
 
Gameface said:
I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.
Click to expand...

Well, one of the things about BruControl that I like is that it’s pretty flexible and can easily grow as your system grows.

Starting out with just heater and pump control and building towards full automation.

It’s pretty “future proof” in that regard.
 
Gameface said:
I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what part of the process would it not be able to help with?
 
--Jason-- said:
Out of curiosity, what part of the process would it not be able to help with?
Click to expand...
Well, pushing a physical button is just as easy as pushing a virtual button. The advantage comes from the flexibility. But if I was going to keep my present system (which I can't because I sold it, buyer is deployed atm) I wouldn't be particularly motivated to switch to a software based solution. What I find most attractive about BruControl is the ability to automate.

And where I was somewhat uncertain about where this build was going earlier today I'm no longer as uncertain. I will be using BruControl and aiming to automate my brewday. I know the first few runs will not be run on a script, but I hope to move to a mostly automated process pretty quickly.
 
I'm excited to get my hands on the Quadzilla element.

I'm assuming but not 100% sure that it has 4 different elements, all wired separately? So I can tie them together or possibly run two off one SSR and the other two off a different SSR (or 4 separate SSRs if I wanted to go that way)?
 
Gameface said:
I'm excited to get my hands on the Quadzilla element.

I'm assuming but not 100% sure that it has 4 different elements, all wired separately? So I can tie them together or possibly run two off one SSR and the other two off a different SSR (or 4 separate SSRs if I wanted to go that way)?
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing actually and if it can be controlled as a "single element" -- basically can quadzilla be wired up to a standard a single L6-30P plug?
 
popquizkid said:
I was wondering the same thing actually and if it can be controlled as a "single element" -- basically can quadzilla be wired up to a standard a single L6-30P plug?
Click to expand...
Looks like my delivery is coming in early so I'll have it in hand some time today. I'll take pics of the wires.
 
I know I have one but can't currently find a B type USB cable. Do I need to connect via USB first in order to get the arduino to connect to my wifi network?
 
The QuadZilla does have 4 independent elements. You can wire all four in parallel, or 2 pairs, or individual, and drive by 1, 2, or 4 circuits (SSR/contractor) respectively, according to your preferences.

Wiring all four into a single plug is admittedly a little tough - you need to use heat shrink tubing to guard the wires into the plug (the 4 metal jackets won’t all fit).
 
BrunDog said:
The QuadZilla does have 4 independent elements. You can wire all four in parallel, or 2 pairs, or individual, and drive by 1, 2, or 4 circuits (SSR/contractor) respectively, according to your preferences.

Wiring all four into a single plug is admittedly a little tough - you need to use heat shrink tubing to guard the wires into the plug (the 4 metal jackets won’t all fit).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm seeing that. Do you use a quadzilla element, and if so, do you run it on more than one SSR? I can pretty easily split it between two SSRs/contactors.

What had me concerned about that is PID control. I didn't spend a lot of time thinking it through, maybe there's a really easy solution, but I was worried about how to deal with it. Didn't know if one side would be run at a percentage (manual mode) and the other based on PID and if the PID would ever get confused and or you'd get some sort of runaway situation.
 
Kind of crappy pics so far, but it's something.

GCB406u.jpg


ZgB5kH1.jpg
 
Nice vessels!!

I power all four simultaneously and let the software do the work. The heater's primary intent is low wattage density for RIMs applications. You can limit the power output easily in software... for example, limiting the PID max output to 25% essentially turns the RIMs into a 120V source.

I suggest you power all four or 2 simultaneously. If you do split it into two... running two PID's with the same parameters is no issue - they will mirror each other.
 
So some car troubles are putting this on a temporary hold at the moment, but I have a question about the kind of cables people are using. I bought some 3pin XLR cable and I'm sure it will work for some things, but looks like not for everything.

It has a white wire, a red wire and then a bare ground wire that makes contact with the copper shielding. The RTDs I bought come with XLR cables (3-wire, red, red, white) so I'm covered there. But the thing I'm concerned about is the proportional valve. Now it seems like it might be okay because @BrunDog is saying he only uses 3 wires, 24v, ground and control. Am I okay with what I've got or am I going to need different wire for the proportional valves.

I'm good to go on the hydrostatic pressure sensors because they have 15' of wire already that I'll solder into the XLR connector.
 
Another question regarding the 3-way valves. They are powered 24v (open), 24v (close), ground. When connecting to a relay can I use a single relay that has a NO and NC output, or will I need to connect to one relay for open and another for closed? I purchased a 16 relay SPDT board and I have the room to do it either way.

81t-4QC9YSL._SL1500_.jpg
 
I’m a little confused by the XLR having a conductor which is a bare ground wire. If that’s correct, you won’t be able to use these for the RTDs. Can you post up a link or some pics?

Also, one relay per valve: one line to NO and the other to NC per your comment.
 
BrunDog said:
I’m a little confused by the XLR having a conductor which is a bare ground wire. If that’s correct, you won’t be able to use these for the RTDs. Can you post up a link or some pics?

Also, one relay per valve: one line to NO and the other to NC per your comment.
Click to expand...

Looks like this.
ke8ca5hlyfvyan2zeuic


I figure I can still use that as a ground wire? It just touches the shielding.
 
And I just want to make clear. For my RTDs I have the correct cable. I just want to make sure it's going to be okay for me to use that cable (I think it's microphone cable) if I use that bare wire as the ground. So for the 3-way valves where there is going to be a 24v open, 24v closed and ground, I'm okay using that bare wire as ground? And then with the proportional valves.

I am not using this cable for the hydrostatic pressure sensors or RTDs.
 

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