1st brew-no headspace in carboy

[busknuckle]

Hello. Glad to have found the place...

I made my first batch on 5/3. I'm doing an extract and following the recipe in "How to Brew" for Cincinnati Pale ale. While I felt that most things went well, I did make 2 mistakes that I'm not super happy about.

1. I never took a hydrometer reading, even though I have one. It might be because the book mentioned that it was not necessarily needed for an extract brew. After reading through the forum here, I see that it could have provided me useful information.

2. (the one I'm more worried about)
I have a 5 gallon glass carboy (I got it from a friend, and measured it out since he didn't know it's capacity). I followed all of the steps of aerating the wort and then pouring into the fermenter. The bad thing is that I added water to bring the level up to 5 gallons and then pitched the yeast. This was a foolish mistake of simple capacity. Some of the last of the yeast mixture came out of the top and spilled down.

I have bubbling, and have had so since 24 hours (almost exactly) from the end of the brew.

Question: will the fact that I have absolutely no headspace in the carboy cause a problem? I'm using a blow-off hose into a bucket of water. I check on it regularly to make sure it is neither losing liquid, nor over flowing.

Thank you.

 

[Riot]

As long as you have a blow off installed you will be fine. You may lose some liquid but that's nothing compared to an airlock clogging and hitting the ceiling. Guess how I know this

 

[brew_ny]

Guess how I know this

had it happen to you?

 

[TallDan]

If those two mistakes are the worst thing to happen on your first brew, you're in pretty good shape, overall.

If you already have a blowoff tube on it, you'll be just fine. There will be a lot of krausen going through the tube into your bucket, so you'll want to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't make a mess. Next time you know that you'll want to have either a smaller batch or a larger fermenter.

As far as not measuring the gravity before fermentation, no big deal, you'll only have an estimate of the alcohol content, but even 1% ABV difference isn't going to change much for you.

My first few brew days were pretty chaotic and made a huge mess. Now they're pretty relaxed and I have the place cleaned up in no time. It just comes with some experience.

 

[busknuckle]

If those two mistakes are the worst thing to happen on your first brew, you're in pretty good shape, overall.

If you already have a blowoff tube on it, you'll be just fine. There will be a lot of krausen going through the tube into your bucket, so you'll want to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't make a mess. Next time you know that you'll want to have either a smaller batch or a larger fermenter.

As far as not measuring the gravity before fermentation, no big deal, you'll only have an estimate of the alcohol content, but even 1% ABV difference isn't going to change much for you.

My first few brew days were pretty chaotic and made a huge mess. Now they're pretty relaxed and I have the place cleaned up in no time. It just comes with some experience.

If I want to brew a 5 gallon batch, do I need to use a different primary fermenter then? I have a 6 gallon bucket. Maybe me 5 gallon glass carboy is only good for secondary?

Or I guess...I'll have to use math (sheesh!) to cut recipes to fit my carboy?

Thanks for the feedback.
:beard:

 

[TallDan]

If I want to brew a 5 gallon batch, do I need to use a different primary fermenter then? I have a 6 gallon bucket. Maybe me 5 gallon glass carboy is only good for secondary?

Or I guess...I'll have to use math (sheesh!) to cut recipes to fit my carboy?

Thanks for the feedback.
:beard:

Yeah, pretty common in kits to have a 6G bucket for primary and 5G carboy for secondary. I have a 5g carboy that I use for cider (very little krausen with cider) and on the rare occasion (twice out of 28 batches) that I use a secondary fermenter. You'll find that most people on HBT don't see much value in using a secondary fermenter.

You will certainly be better off with a 6G fermenter for 5G batches. The fermenters I've been using lately for 5G batches are close to 7G.

 

[bloodysafety]

your first brew sounds like it went alot smoother than mine! By all accounts mine should have been infected but it wasn't! For example, my first hydrometer reading was taken by dropping my hydrometer directly into my carboy after sprinkling dry yeast in because I broke the cylinder almost immediately after getting it home. Not to mention my little boy put his filthy mitts in it while the kettle was cooling. I've found beer to be very forgiving... Your beer sounds active and healthy so I wouldn't worry about anything other than having the will power to wait for it to condition!

 

[Dlou84]

I have a 6.5 gallon carboy and two 5 gallons carboys. I've done a couple primaries in my five gallon ones since the other was in use. I even had a situation similar to this the first time I used it for primary. I think you can keep using it for primary if you like. You will just be used to having 4.5 gallons of beer instead of 5 and have lots of practice with the blowoff tube.

There are a lot of people on here that don't do secondary. I don't anymore. But there are also a lot of people who worry about leaving beer in primary with too much head space. There is always something to worry about you brewchild!

 

[Dlou84]

Dang It! Meant to type your brewchild. Where is the edit button?

 

[Takuie]

As long as you have a blow off installed you will be fine. You may lose some liquid but that's nothing compared to an airlock clogging and hitting the ceiling. Guess how I know this

There are two types of home brewers, those that have mopped beer off the ceiling and those that haven't...yet

 

[busknuckle]

Thanks for all the feedback yall.

Instead of asking here, I'll just say that I've seen enough forum comments talking about doing a secondary fermentation. I inherited 95% of my homebrew gear from my friends. The only visit to a LHBS yielded another comment about a secondary fermentor.

At this point, I don't really know the point of a secondary, or, (if it exists...a tertiary) fermenter. But I'm here to learn, and gather information.

Thanks again for the feedback.

On a side note...while I never finished my degree, I was a microbiology major...so I took (take) sanitation VERY SERIOUSLY. So much so that it almost prevented my starting.

 

[brewmesomewater]

Thanks for all the feedback yall.

Instead of asking here, I'll just say that I've seen enough forum comments talking about doing a secondary fermentation. I inherited 95% of my homebrew gear from my friends. The only visit to a LHBS yielded another comment about a secondary fermentor.

At this point, I don't really know the point of a secondary, or, (if it exists...a tertiary) fermenter. But I'm here to learn, and gather information.

Thanks again for the feedback.

On a side note...while I never finished my degree, I was a microbiology major...so I took (take) sanitation VERY SERIOUSLY. So much so that it almost prevented my starting.

As you have already figured out by now, as long as you have a blow off on you should be alright. What I would be worried about is the fact that you said you lost some of your yeast when you went to pitch it.

Being that you have provided 'How to Brew' is something you have referenced to, go to the chapter on yeast specifically regarding OG's and amount of yeast cells needed. I feel as if unless you have excellent attenuation, you may have underpitched. I know you did not gather an exact OG but refer to what the recipe said it was supposed to be to give you a starting point.

I personally do not use a secondary, BUT the purpose of a secondary is to aid in a cleaner overall product (aids in producing better flavors), the idea is to rack from the primary into a secondary carboy (whatever you ferment in) leaving the trub at the bottom of the carboy. Most brewers use the secondary for dry hopping as well. In my opinion with the use of hop bags, whirfloc, and cold crashing my beer comes out clear enough.

I feel as if you may ask this question so I'm going to provide an answer even if you were not interested. If you do decide to use a secondary, there will still be yeast in your beer. Do not worry when it comes time to bottle condition/keg. There will be plenty of little yeastys waiting for that priming sugar so they can eat it, and poop CO2.

-Clam

 

[RM-MN]

The main point of a secondary is to get the beer off the yeast before it can autolyze and give you a bad flavor. It comes directly from the big brewers who have to really watch for that since they have very large batches in conical fermenters. It very rarely happens at the homebrew level because of the much smaller volume of beer and the lack of conical fermenters for most of us.

Some people move their beer to get it to clear better but experimentation has shown that it really doesn't help as the yeast will clump up and settle out the same in the primary or maybe even better since the clumping of the yeast is not disturbed by the moving of the beer. Where a secondary will be a help is for additions of things that are intended to add flavor to the beer but would tend to sink into the yeast and get covered by the mass of yeast if done in the primary.

 

[busknuckle]

As you have already figured out by now, as long as you have a blow off on you should be alright. What I would be worried about is the fact that you said you lost some of your yeast when you went to pitch it.

Being that you have provided 'How to Brew' is something you have referenced to, go to the chapter on yeast specifically regarding OG's and amount of yeast cells needed. I feel as if unless you have excellent attenuation, you may have underpitched. I know you did not gather an exact OG but refer to what the recipe said it was supposed to be to give you a starting point.

I personally do not use a secondary, BUT the purpose of a secondary is to aid in a cleaner overall product (aids in producing better flavors), the idea is to rack from the primary into a secondary carboy (whatever you ferment in) leaving the trub at the bottom of the carboy. Most brewers use the secondary for dry hopping as well. In my opinion with the use of hop bags, whirfloc, and cold crashing my beer comes out clear enough.

I feel as if you may ask this question so I'm going to provide an answer even if you were not interested. If you do decide to use a secondary, there will still be yeast in your beer. Do not worry when it comes time to bottle condition/keg. There will be plenty of little yeastys waiting for that priming sugar so they can eat it, and poop CO2.

-Clam

Thanks for the feedback. I will follow up on the OG, but I'm not sure about what you mean regarding attenuation. I read the definition in "How to Brew", but I'm not sure how to tell. Are you saying I should take a gravity reading while the beer is in primary? I could do this. Or are you saying I should still take a FG and use the recipe reference numbers for FG to compare.

I read further into how to brew about fermenting. (I bought the hard copy) From what JJP says, I will likely lose "a couple of quarts of beer" (page 94, using a 5 gallon carboy)

FWIW...I did read up further on the reasons, as well as pros/cons of using a secondary fermenter.

 

[brewmesomewater]

Thanks for the feedback. I will follow up on the OG, but I'm not sure about what you mean regarding attenuation. I read the definition in "How to Brew", but I'm not sure how to tell. Are you saying I should take a gravity reading while the beer is in primary? I could do this. Or are you saying I should still take a FG and use the recipe reference numbers for FG to compare.

I read further into how to brew about fermenting. (I bought the hard copy) From what JJP says, I will likely lose "a couple of quarts of beer" (page 94, using a 5 gallon carboy)

FWIW...I did read up further on the reasons, as well as pros/cons of using a secondary fermenter.

I was referring to the table on page 68, table 8 in 'How to Brew' where the chart is already calibrated for a 5 gallon chart and states how many yeast cells are needed for that specific OG. What I am saying is that first off you need to see how many yeast cells are in the packet/vial you used and check the chart to see if even without the spilled yeast if you had enough for the job. More than likely, unless it was a 'big' beer you should be fine.

You will need to check the gravity once you feel fermentation is complete. I recomend a sterile turkey Baster, just pull some beer up and put in the graduated cylinder. Obviously the Baster will expose the beer used for a gravity reading to oxygen so just drink the sample after the reading. (Helps give you idea of what the beer will taste like as well)

But yes record your personal FG, and compare it to the designed recipes OG just so you can get an idea of how much attenuation you got, the ABV, etc.

 

[btbnl]

Since you're using extract your efficiency is 100% and you can calculate your OG provided you know your volume - which you do! In 5G of wort you'll get 0.0084 points of gravity for every 1lb of dry extract, or 0.0070 points for every 1lb of liquid extract.

OG measurements are important when you're mashing and sparging to extract the sugars from grain at an unknown (but definitely less than 100%) efficiency.

 

[GHBWNY]

In 10 days or so, check the FG. If it's close to the what the kit recommends, then you're in the ballpark. Let it ride a couple more days and check it again. If it's the same as the former measurement, it's done. Even at that, give it a few more days for the yeast to clean up any residual by-products. You could check FG again (just to make sure it's done), but chances are quite good that it is. You'll have good beer. Congrats on your first attempt!

 

[Takuie]

Watching FG is important. Instead of opening your fermenter everytime you need to take a reading, I installed spigots on all my fermentation buckets. Open spigot, pull sample. Does not disturb the brew, and leaves that precious protective layer of c02 right where it belongs, under the lid protecting the delicious liquid underneath.

I use the 3 day method. When I feel fermenting is complete(after a few brews you know when it should be close), I pull my sample, record the OG. Wait 3 days and repeat. If readings are the same, fermentation is complete.

I won't even get into the debate of secondary or not. It's mostly about what you feel works best for you. I will usually rack my heavier beers to a secondary, other than that, I leave in primary until it's time to keg.

 

[brick_haus]

I'll bet you have a little head space now!

 

[busknuckle]

Appreciate all of the feedback. Some new questions:

1. The carboy has developed the tiniest bit of space between the top of the vessel and the top of the liquid. This seems like it will make it tough to evaluate the exact amount of liquid when it comes to sugar priming for bottling. I will be taking a final gravity measurement. More of a vague statement than a question. Thoughts on the volume issue?

2. My brew day was May 3. I have read quite a few comments about primary fermentation being better at 3 weeks. This is not an option for me, as I will be out of town at 3 weeks, and it would become closer to 4 weeks. I'm leaning toward just going to bottles at 2 weeks, 1 day. Thoughts? (4 weeks seems too long for primary)

3. Specific reply to brewsomewater: I used Safale 05 for my brew. I rehydrated the yeast with the warm water range listed in "How to Brew" I'm not sure how to tell how many viable yeast cells went in. Does this info I provided tell you anything more?

 

[RM-MN]

2. 4 weeks in the primary is better than 2 weeks. It lets more yeast settle out so you get less sediment in the bottle and it counts toward the amount of time the beer needs to mature. I chatted with a guy who left his beer in the primary for 8 months and he said that still wasn't too long. Please note that 8 months is not my recommendation but 4 weeks doesn't seem like too much.

 

[balrog]

I second RM-MN's "> 2wks". If it's a "big" beer, OG>1.060 &/or the recipe specifically states being ~6% or more when finished, then longer in the fermenter is really required. For 5% or less beers, especially hoppy ones where flavor/aroma fades with a couple weeks, you don't want to let the hop character fade by leaving it in primary 6 weeks. But 3-4 weeks is a nice happy sweet spot for many who don't worry about things or have time to bottle.

 

[TallDan]

Appreciate all of the feedback. Some new questions:

1. The carboy has developed the tiniest bit of space between the top of the vessel and the top of the liquid. This seems like it will make it tough to evaluate the exact amount of liquid when it comes to sugar priming for bottling. I will be taking a final gravity measurement. More of a vague statement than a question. Thoughts on the volume issue?

2. My brew day was May 3. I have read quite a few comments about primary fermentation being better at 3 weeks. This is not an option for me, as I will be out of town at 3 weeks, and it would become closer to 4 weeks. I'm leaning toward just going to bottles at 2 weeks, 1 day. Thoughts? (4 weeks seems too long for primary)

3. Specific reply to brewsomewater: I used Safale 05 for my brew. I rehydrated the yeast with the warm water range listed in "How to Brew" I'm not sure how to tell how many viable yeast cells went in. Does this info I provided tell you anything more?

1. I don't bottle much, but I think you'll be fine with a pretty close estimate. Since you'll be putting it in your bottling bucket, you should mark the bucket now with gallon and half gallon (maybe even quarter gallon) marks so you can accurately measure it then.

2. I would definitely go 4 weeks rather than two. I actually don't think I've ever had a beer in fermenters less than 4 weeks.

3. i know this wasn't directed at me, but at this point, cell counts are water under the bridge. Maybe you under-pitched a little, but at this point there's nothing to do about it.

 

[brewmesomewater]

I would just get some priming tabs for this batch and mark my carboy for next time if this happened again and use priming sugar on the next