1st BIAB complete-Suggestions to increase efficiency?

[jpb2716]

Good morning all.

Yesterday I brewed my first BIAB batch and I loved it! I enjoyed the process so much more than the extract brews I was doing before.

I brewed EdWort's Kolsch recipe (expected 1.052 OG) and shot for 70% efficiency but ended up getting 72% efficiency. I was excited that I was able to hit somewhat decent numbers. I had my monster mill set at .030" and I squeezed the bag after it drained. I did not sparge.

I of course want to improve my efficiency if possible so I am looking suggestions.

Thanks everyone!

 

[bransona]

I do BIAB 1.5 gallon batches, so this may be easier for me since I'm dealing with a smaller bag/amount of grain, but I've gotten as high as 90% by:

Double milling grains
Squeezing the CRAP out of the bag
Sparge with water enough to get you to your boil volume
SQQQQUUUUEEEEEZZZZEEE

Just don't hurt yourself, and I think you'll see great results. I don't fall below 80%, and it's glorious. Big, big, big beers

Brew on, my friend

Also, I maintain really good mash temps by keeping it in the oven, and I stir the grains about 4 times during the 60 minute mash, which I'm sure only helps efficiency.

 

[theseeker4]

I agree with the above. You really can't grind too fine with BIAB. And definitely squeeze every drop of liquid you can out of the grains. If you have issues improving your efficiency, maybe look into your water chemistry, but 70% is not bad at all for a first brew.

 

[jpb2716]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I forgot to mention that I did double crush my grain. Would it be worthwhile tightening up the gap on my mill?

 

[solbes]

72% is pretty good. You could tighten the gap a tad more, but I think you're actually at a good place. I have a .030" gap and do single pass. Vary from 72-89% based on grain bill size.

Despite losing some of the simplicity of BIAB by sparging, you do get a bump in efficiency. I have a 15 gallon SS kettle that I mash in, For grain bills of 11.5 lbs and smaller I can dunk it in a smaller 5 gallon stainless pot that has 2 gallons of sparge water. Stir it up, let it sit for 5 minutes, another stir and lift it out. I usually get a 5-10 % bump right there.

 

[bransona]

The finer the grain, the higher the trub. Double milling is usually fine. I use a doubled-over curtain for my bag, and it keeps my sediment fairly low, even when I use the 2-row I have that I would swear is milled to the point of being half-powder. I think mash temps and the squeeze-sparge-squeeze will get you where you want to be.

 

[bransona]

Check this graphic out on the difference in sparging and not.

 

[EJay]

One of the appeals of BIAB is the simplicity of no-sparge. In my opinion, consistency is more important than efficiency so long as your efficiency is reasonable. I wouldn't chase efficiency for efficiency's sake.

With that said, yesterday I was brewing the OctoberFAST recipe in my 5 gallon pot, aiming for a 2.5g batch. Because its a 90 minute boil, I was really stretching my limits - I couldn't full-volume mash with enough water left for boiloff.

i normally put my grain bag in a small kettle on a vegetable steamer to let it drain while I'm heating the main kettle to boil, then I add those drippings back to the pot. This time I did that but then i added about a liter of water afterwards back over the grain bag, and squeezed again. It was really just enough water to re-soak the grains, but the sugar extracted was dense enough that it raised the OG in the kettle when I poured those back into the main kettle. I calced mask efficiency north of 90%, which is higher than normal for me, but that number is sensitive to measuring volumes perfectly, which I am sure I did not.

So I am convinced that even a micro-sparge like this is pretty effective if you want to squeeze out a bit more sugar from the grain bag. I could have, and probably should have, done it several times - I still ended up low in volume but high in gravity so I just diluted in the fermenter to correct both.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

72% mash efficiency is good. You can probably get 80-85% if you can tighten down the grain absorption, or by reserving some of the water and doing a sparge. I like to mash around 1.75-2 qt/lb which helps me get a good conversion efficiency (typically ~95%) and leaves some water behind so I can get a good lauter efficiency (80~%) which nets me a good mash efficiency around 82% depending on recipe.

You can run some simulations in my calculator located below in the sig.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

One of the appeals of BIAB is the simplicity of no-sparge. In my opinion, consistency is more important than efficiency so long as your efficiency is reasonable. I wouldn't chase efficiency for efficiency's sake.

+1 this. Go ahead and crush finer and do a sparge. They do help. But once you settle on a method, stick with it. Don't get obsessed with squeezing an extra point out of your efficiency. In the end, consistency trumps efficiency.

 

[redrider736]

72% mash efficiency is good. You can probably get 80-85% if you can tighten down the grain absorption, or by reserving some of the water and doing a sparge. I like to mash around 1.75-2 qt/lb which helps me get a good conversion efficiency (typically ~95%) and leaves some water behind so I can get a good lauter efficiency (80~%) which nets me a good mash efficiency around 82% depending on recipe.

You can run some simulations in my calculator located below in the sig.

Do you Sparge or Full Volume brew ??

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I've done both, I usually sparge somewhat nowadays unless I'm feeling particularly lazy that day. I tend to mash around 1.75-2.25 qt/lb and sparge with the rest.

 

[bransona]

I mash at 2 qt/lb then sparge to boil volume

 

[malt81]

Isn't squeezing bad and releasing tannins? or it is not an issue?

 

[RM-MN]

Isn't squeezing bad and releasing tannins? or it is not an issue?

You can squeeze all you want and not release tannins or you can release tannins without squeezing. What it takes to get the tannins out is a high pH and high temp. You have to have both to release the tannins.

 

[malt81]

You can squeeze all you want and not release tannins or you can release tannins without squeezing. What it takes to get the tannins out is a high pH and high temp. You have to have both to release the tannins.

Good to know. I have also made only one BIAB and want to increse effisienfy.
Lets assume that PH is ok and i do mash out 169F, then squeezing is still ok?

 

[RM-MN]

Good to know. I have also made only one BIAB and want to increse effisienfy.
Lets assume that PH is ok and i do mash out 169F, then squeezing is still ok?

Yes, as long as the pH is below about 6.0 you can sparge with hot water and squeeze all you want. Most of the time the grain bill with your water will get you wort that is in the 5.2 to 5.4 range but it will depend a lot on the grain bill and what water you use. Some wells produce water with too much alkalinity for the grain to make it acidic enough.

 

[doug293cz]

Good to know. I have also made only one BIAB and want to increse effisienfy.
Lets assume that PH is ok and i do mash out 169F, then squeezing is still ok?

There is no need to do a mash out. The purpose of a mash out is to stop continued conversion of dextrins and poly- saccharides to mono and di-saccharides (which are fermentable) during a long fly sparge. The reason you don't want the wort overly fermentable is that that can make a beer that is drier and thinner than desired. With BIAB, you don't do a long fly sparge. Since you can start heating your wort as soon as you pull the bag out of the kettle, that heating will perform the function of the mash out.

Brew on

 

[malt81]

There is no need to do a mash out. The purpose of a mash out is to stop continued conversion of dextrins and poly- saccharides to mono and di-saccharides (which are fermentable) during a long fly sparge. The reason you don't want the wort overly fermentable is that that can make a beer that is drier and thinner than desired. With BIAB, you don't do a long fly sparge. Since you can start heating your wort as soon as you pull the bag out of the kettle, that heating will perform the function of the mash out.

Brew on

Learning every day
I read a recipe from my LHBS website and they recommended to do mashout even with BIAB and bag in, it makes wort less viscous for draining...I have also read this somewhere else
So much different positions

And sorry for hijacking the topic, I will shut up now

Edit: I also found your older reply about this topic and see your point, makes sense...

 

[RM-MN]

Learning every day
I read a recipe from my LHBS website and they recommended to do mashout even with BIAB and bag in, it makes wort less viscous for draining...I have also read this somewhere else
So much different positions

And sorry for hijacking the topic, I will shut up now

Edit: I also found your older reply about this topic and see your point, makes sense...

The difference in viscosity between wort at 150 and wort at 170 is pretty small. Your LHBS is just repeating what they have seen somewhere else which is how most misinformation gets spread. Once printed, it is nearly impossible to get it removed and before it can be removed and corrected it has been reprinted so many time that it become accepted as fact.

 

[Ungoliant]

Crush the **** out of it, and squeeze that bag like it owes you money. My grain absorption rates are down in the low .030s/gal, and I triple crush my grains at my LHBS.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/23/mind-the-gap-course-vs-fine-crush-exbeeriment-results/

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Dang son, going to have to give

Gavin C

a squeeze for his money.