120V RIMS turned 240V eBIAB - Feasible?

[zman_]

Hey all!

I currently have a 10 gallon BIAB propane-fired setup (20 gallon pot, 4 1.5" TC fittings, stainless basket, center-inlet chugger pump) but haven't been super satisfied with the mash temp control, even with insulation/etc. Consequently, I have been tossing the idea around of some automated temperature control. As I am currently renting and don't have easy access to a 240V source, my main options are adding on 120V RIMS to automating the propane burner/etc. Given that I ultimately want to move to a full eBIAB setup, I was leaning towards the RIMS option.

My plan is to "overbuild" my 120V controller with parts, plugs, etc that will be transferable to a full 240V eBIAB build in the semi-near future. In my understanding, this essentially means buying a 40a SSR, 40a contactors, and higher rated plugs/receptacles/etc.

I would be basing my parts list/wiring on the kits/diagrams available on ebrew supply, essentially combining the 1 element/120V/20a plans (http://www.ebrewsupply.com/1-pid-20a-120v-rims-kit/) with the 1 element/240v/30a plans (http://www.ebrewsupply.com/1-pid-30a-biab-kit/) as a starting point. I would be looking to modifying the wiring slightly to only run one pump (as I only have one and anticipate only having one since I am going to stick to BIAB), and maybe add in an additional safeguard for the RIMS setup of only allowing the element to fire when the pump is running.

I am working on preliminary parts lists/diagrams but will likely be basing the build around the brewershardware 1.5" TC RIMS tube, 5500W foldback element (to be run @ 120V for RIMS and @ 240V when I move to eBIAB), Auber 1.5" TC RTD Temperature Sensor, and EZBoil DSP120.

I just wanted to reach out and see if anybody has attempted anything similar (a "future-proof" setup) or if there is any general advice/diagrams out there for something similar?

Additionally, as I am working on my parts list, does anyone have suggestions of retailers to look at? I am going to be comparing between amazon/Ebrew Supply/Auber/potentially EBay/Local stores for electrical components and Brew Hardware/Brewers Hardware/ProFlow/etc for other hardware/components.

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

Hey all!

I currently have a 10 gallon BIAB propane-fired setup (20 gallon pot, 4 1.5" TC fittings, stainless basket, center-inlet chugger pump) but haven't been super satisfied with the mash temp control, even with insulation/etc. Consequently, I have been tossing the idea around of some automated temperature control. As I am currently renting and don't have easy access to a 240V source, my main options are adding on 120V RIMS to automating the propane burner/etc. Given that I ultimately want to move to a full eBIAB setup, I was leaning towards the RIMS option.

My plan is to "overbuild" my 120V controller with parts, plugs, etc that will be transferable to a full 240V eBIAB build in the semi-near future. In my understanding, this essentially means buying a 40a SSR, 40a contactors, and higher rated plugs/receptacles/etc.

I would be basing my parts list/wiring on the kits/diagrams available on ebrew supply, essentially combining the 1 element/120V/20a plans (http://www.ebrewsupply.com/1-pid-20a-120v-rims-kit/) with the 1 element/240v/30a plans (http://www.ebrewsupply.com/1-pid-30a-biab-kit/) as a starting point. I would be looking to modifying the wiring slightly to only run one pump (as I only have one and anticipate only having one since I am going to stick to BIAB), and maybe add in an additional safeguard for the RIMS setup of only allowing the element to fire when the pump is running.

I am working on preliminary parts lists/diagrams but will likely be basing the build around the brewershardware 1.5" TC RIMS tube, 5500W foldback element (to be run @ 120V for RIMS and @ 240V when I move to eBIAB), Auber 1.5" TC RTD Temperature Sensor, and EZBoil DSP120.

I just wanted to reach out and see if anybody has attempted anything similar (a "future-proof" setup) or if there is any general advice/diagrams out there for something similar?

Additionally, as I am working on my parts list, does anyone have suggestions of retailers to look at? I am going to be comparing between amazon/Ebrew Supply/Auber/potentially EBay/Local stores for electrical components and Brew Hardware/Brewers Hardware/ProFlow/etc for other hardware/components.

Thanks!

Here's a design I did that can be used for 120V or 240V power input. The key is the pigtail plug/socket combo that is used when running on 120V, and not used when running on 240V. So, just build the panel for 240V 30A operation, and then add the pigtail and it will work on 120V.

Let me know if you have questions.



Brew on

 

[zman_]

That... Is a much simpler solution than I was planning. Seems like if all 120v components/pumps/etc are run off line 1, tying neutral and line 2 together would be the perfect solution! Now to rework my plan using that. I appreciate the diagram and I'll take a closer look at it tonight, likely going to go with a Mashup of the ebrew one and yours with a few modifications thrown in.

 

[pumpkin02]

Let me know if you have questions.


Brew on

Not trying to thread-jack, but I've been lurking for a while and doing a lot of reading with hopes to slowly turn my propane setup into electric.

I'm trying to understand your design. I'm thinking that if you have the panel plugged into 240v, then the position of the Auber SW4 switch and corresponding mini power relay decides if the element gets either 240v or 120v. If you use the designed pigtail to plug into 120v, then the element will see 120v regardless of the position of that switch. Am I correct? If so, when plugged into 240v but selecting 120v for the element, will the element firing LED still work as designed/intended?

 

[doug293cz]

Not trying to thread-jack, but I've been lurking for a while and doing a lot of reading with hopes to slowly turn my propane setup into electric.

I'm trying to understand your design. I'm thinking that if you have the panel plugged into 240v, then the position of the Auber SW4 switch and corresponding mini power relay decides if the element gets either 240v or 120v. If you use the designed pigtail to plug into 120v, then the element will see 120v regardless of the position of that switch. Am I correct? If so, when plugged into 240v but selecting 120v for the element, will the element firing LED still work as designed/intended?

You are correct. The 240V LED will light with 120V, but will be dimmer than on 240V.

Brew on

 

[martyjhuebs]

Im running a full 120V system and I had issues in my RIMS when running HWD 120V elements. Scorching and overheating were the main problems. When I run a 240V ULWD element on 120V usually puts me at about 1375W I can run it steady for several minutes at a time, I manually control it so I don't use a SSR. I guess the biggest concern is how much temperature you lose during the mash. On a cold day in Colorado even with insulation I lose about 1-2 every 10-15 minutes so running the element for long periods isn't an issue.

Hope this isn't off topic but you may want to keep it on 120V if that works well for you.

 

[zman_]

Im running a full 120V system and I had issues in my RIMS when running HWD 120V elements. Scorching and overheating were the main problems. When I run a 240V ULWD element on 120V usually puts me at about 1375W I can run it steady for several minutes at a time, I manually control it so I don't use a SSR. I guess the biggest concern is how much temperature you lose during the mash. On a cold day in Colorado even with insulation I lose about 1-2 every 10-15 minutes so running the element for long periods isn't an issue.

Hope this isn't off topic but you may want to keep it on 120V if that works well for you.

I am planning to use the 5500W element @ 120V while I have this as a RIMS setup (as that is all I have available) with a propane burner to provide heat for strike/boiling/etc. When I go to 240V the 5500W element (LWD foldback) will be moved into the kettle itself and the RIMS tube bypassed. I may incorporate the "120V/240V" selector switch that doug293cz incorporated into his design so that I could take advantage of the ULWD of 5500W/120V operation during mashing, but I am not 100% sure if that is necessary. If I notice issues with the density of the foldback 5500W @ 240V I will likely just swap it to a 5500W ripple ULWD element which should solve that problem (Generally 1/2 the density of 5500W elements, but obviously not good for RIMS operation).

 

[TallDan]

I'm looking at something similar, but I'm just building a 120v RIMS controller with an oversized SSR. If/when i go to 220v I need to rebuild the controller, but the only parts that won't be reused are inexpensive 120v receptacles and wires.

 

[zman_]

So, taking into account the advice/various wiring diagrams/builds I put together this wiring diagram (hopefully its not too confusing). Let me know what you think!

It is a combo of the above suggestion, E-Brew Supply 30a/1PID kit and a few other builds that I have seen floating around here. I know its a bit overkill, but I like the added safety features (E-Stop that should shut down everything), pump contactor (likely would remove when moving up to eBIAB 240V, but nice for the 120V RIMS), plenty of shiny lights/etc.

Planning to base it around the Auber EZBoil DSPR120, the 1.5" TC temperature sensor from Auber also.

For the RIMS tube likely going with brewershardware (Link) or Glacier Tanks (Link).

Considering this enclosure, +/- the PID cutout, and with the heatsink (Link)

Going to use 2-pole, 120V coil, 40a contactors (can anyone recommend a good source for these? They are ~$13.50 on EBrew, $14.59 on Auber, but maybe there is a cheaper/better source out there?).

Also looking for a good source for a 40a SSR

Going to use twist-lock outlets/recepticles/plugs on the panel, make jumpers for the pump, and employ an integrated twist-lock element. Best source that I have found (price-wise) is Amazon, but again - if anyone knows a good place to find these parts, let me know!

Beyond that, searching around for 22mm 120V LED pilot lights, switches, breakers, etc - going to compare amazon/ebay/auber/ebrew, but open to suggestions/recommendations.

 

[doug293cz]

So, taking into account the advice/various wiring diagrams/builds I put together this wiring diagram (hopefully its not too confusing). Let me know what you think!

It is a combo of the above suggestion, E-Brew Supply 30a/1PID kit and a few other builds that I have seen floating around here. I know its a bit overkill, but I like the added safety features (E-Stop that should shut down everything), pump contactor (likely would remove when moving up to eBIAB 240V, but nice for the 120V RIMS), plenty of shiny lights/etc.

Planning to base it around the Auber EZBoil DSPR120, the 1.5" TC temperature sensor from Auber also.

For the RIMS tube likely going with brewershardware (Link) or Glacier Tanks (Link).

Considering this enclosure, +/- the PID cutout, and with the heatsink (Link)

Going to use 2-pole, 120V coil, 40a contactors (can anyone recommend a good source for these? They are ~$13.50 on EBrew, $14.59 on Auber, but maybe there is a cheaper/better source out there?).

Also looking for a good source for a 40a SSR

Going to use twist-lock outlets/recepticles/plugs on the panel, make jumpers for the pump, and employ an integrated twist-lock element. Best source that I have found (price-wise) is Amazon, but again - if anyone knows a good place to find these parts, let me know!

Beyond that, searching around for 22mm 120V LED pilot lights, switches, breakers, etc - going to compare amazon/ebay/auber/ebrew, but open to suggestions/recommendations.

You don't need the "pump contactor" to interlock the pump and element. Just wire the element switch in series with the pump switch (as is done in the design below.) You also don't need the 25A breaker, as the whole panel should be protected by the 30A breaker in the main breaker panel.



Edit: You can find Meager SSR's on e-bay for reasonable prices.

Brew on

 

[zman_]

Again, thanks for pointing out simple ways to uncomplicate things that I missed during my excitement. Attached the revised wiring plan (need to clean things up at some point and work it into a more useable wiring diagram - maybe there is some software for that that I don't know of), but this should be enough to build a parts list off of. Once I itemize/price everything out I'll probably post again to see if I am screwing anything obvious up at that point

 

[doug293cz]

Didn't notice this in your first drawing, but your "Element Power" lamp will be on whenever the Element Contactor is enabled. You can't really wire this lamp to neutral on one side because with the SSR is off (untriggered) the lamp is connected to the blue hot thru about a 10 ohm resistor (your element.) You really need to use a 240V lamp wired between the two hots on the load side of the SSR.

Edit: Also, the NC contact of your E-Stop switch should be in series with the key switch so that activating it will open the main power contactor, thus killing all power downstream of the main power contactor. Just better design practice.

Brew on

 

[zman_]

Adjusted design - switched E-stop to disconnect power in contactor and swapped 120V element power LED to 240V between L1/L2.