1/2lb to 1lb of Hops - REALLY?!

[GHawk]

I've really been spending time putting together and experimenting with recipes and learning my preferences of hop combinations. This has led me into many hours of researching and reading material and reading other's opinions, as well.

I'm finding that most of the discussions and material are going into the IPA direction. Try searching American Pale Ale hop combinations or ratios. Not happenin'.

What my concern is and reason for starting this topic is:

What I find SO often, for example, is a recipe using a bittering hop and 3 ounces say at 15 minutes of a combination of hops, then another 3 ounces at flameout, and again another 4 ounces for dry hopping.
One in particular was given to me by the recipe creator in regards to Amarillo/ Mosaic:
"The additions were progressive, as in the 15 minute was 1 ounce of each, the 5 was 1.25, the flameout was 1.75, and then 2 ounces of each in dry hop."
THAT WOULD BE 12 (freakin') ounces of HOPS!!! REALLY!? Who dry hops with 4oz of hops?!

Come on. Is the practice of adding $30 of hops into 5 gallons of wort where I'm missing what's going on here? I've been chasing the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone war for a couple of years now and have yet to get close enough with any recipes given, some purported from SN head brewers themselves, and some here on Homebrew Talk. There HAS to be a lot more hopping going on other than 1 ounce here and there. (oh... my water is Pale Ale proned)

I'm finding in this year's batches I like a bittering hop for IBU's to balance the grain bill then a 15-20 and flameout... or, as in my Whirlpool Pale Ale, hop additions at several different cooling temps to retain desired volatile oils. Am I missing out not adding 1 POUND of hops after my 30 minute boil? Where would the wort flavor go? Do I balance this hop tea with 30# of base grain? REALLY?!

You may notice a little hint of disdain here. I'm 20 years old school bitter-flavor-aroma hopping BEFORE the IPA, IIPA, IIIIIPA and let's see how much oil we can add to this beer to blow out the back of your head era. Brother-in-Law shared a commercial IPA with me this Easter and it was simply nasty. It was a hop tea with no malt flavor what so ever.
How cute.

shhhhhew
Thanks for reading. I feel better now. (dismantling soap box for fire wood)
What say you?

 

[Homercidal]

I say the trend is definitely for more late hops and less bittering. But it depends on what YOU like. The reason for so much late hops is to keep teh bittering down so you don't create a nasty astringent, impossibly bitter to drink, beer, yet get a ton of hop flavor.

In order to get a ton of flavor you can add a bunch of late hops 10 or less minutes before end of boil, but you won't get a lot of flavor unless you use a lot. Hence using a lot.

Kepe in mind that you can still do a decent job with a modest bittering charge, some 30 and 20 minute additions, and then some flameout hops and dry hops. This will cut down on the hops, but maybe not give the extreme flavor/aroma you are wanting. There are many ways to skin this cat.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Let's see...I'm guessing the style has seen skyrocketing popularity because...well...people like it. The fact that you don't is OK, but trashing the style does nothing more than inflame. If that's your purpose, doesn't it make you a troll? If it's not, what is the purpose of your post?

 

[schematix]

It takes about 1lb of hops per 5G to make a hoppy IPA. That's just what it takes.

SNPA clone doesn't take that much though. Their process and equipment is what makes that beer taste the way it does.

For what it's worth, I've noticed a large improvement in the flavor of beers from switching to low oxygen brewing. I'd put it on par with the improvement that came from temp control, yeast starters, and using RO water. The flavor of the hops is different and more in line with what you get from commercial products.

 

[plazola86]

THAT WOULD BE 12 (freakin') ounces of HOPS!!! REALLY!? Who dry hops with 4oz of hops?!
QUOTE]

I dry hop my IPA's with 6 oz...there is a huge difference between hop bitterness and hop flavor.

 

[Mainer]

I don't brew hop monsters, but even I do 3-4 ounces if I'm going to dry hop. My hoppiest beer ever used 11 ounces. 12 ounces doesn't sound jaw-dropping to me.

 

[Mainer]

(That said, most of my beers are German lagers and English pales. If I use 3 ounces of hops in a brew, it's a big day.)

 

[henchman24]

It takes about 1lb of hops per 5G to make a hoppy IPA. That's just what it takes.

Agreed. I might go a touch lower depending on the hops, but 12oz would probably the bare minimum.

Most of my IPAs (unless I'm making a standard English IPA) tend to have 22++ oz in a 5 gallon batch. I think the most I've crept up to was 42 oz (only 1 oz in the boil) when I needed to clear out some hops, and it was delicious. To each their own though.

 

[z-bob]

(That said, most of my beers are German lagers and English pales. If I use 3 ounces of hops in a brew, it's a big day.)

That sounds like me. I often have to move the bittering hops up from 60 minutes to 30 so it's not too bitter.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Get off my lawn! I had to go add up the hops in my last batch just to check. I used 28 oz of hops in my last IPA. 77 calculated ibu's. it was a 15 gallon batch with 14 oz or half the hops for a double dry hop. It's friggin awesome sauce. It not even what you'd call a hop bomb. Much closer to a Union Jack than a west coast IPA.

That said the beauty of homebrew is you can make what you like and leave the rest. So cheers to you and your pale ale! Now go nail the SNPA recipe!

 

[rhys333]

5 - 6 ounces in 5 gallons are all you really need to make a hoppy IPA. The key is using hop varieties with strong flavor and aroma, and making sure they are fresh and have been properly stored. A neutral malt base (without Crystal) is also key. I get strong flavor and aroma with 4 oz in the boil and 2 oz dry hop.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I would have to go through my records, but I think I tend to use between 6 and 8 ounces of hops in an APA or IPA on average. I'm very happy with my beer, and so I don't think it's necessary to use more than that for a ~5gal batch.

Here's some hop highlights out of my notes:
Most recent IPA: 7.5oz
Favorite IPA: 7oz
Favorite APA: 5.25oz

All were great beers, and they all used large late and whirlpool additions.

To keep your costs down, I definitely recommend buying your hops in bulk. I've been very happy with Nikobrew. You can get some classic and less trendy C hops (like cascade) really cheap if you feel like experimenting and putting a full pound in a batch.

 

[stz]

The biggest hop load for me was in an imperial IPA at 9.6%. Used 6.5lb total for a 10gal batch. I work in a brewery and most of our IPA's at 5.5% and up use the equivalent of 5-6lb of hops per 5gal. We aren't even one of the extreme ones though our reputation is for big, pale and hoppy beer. We are simply following trends and consumer demand and for the palette of a layperson following what is popular it is easy to make good beer, just use absolutely tons of hops. The subtle differences between various malts and the concept of balance as well as actual faults in the beer is completely lost within this particular market and I still find it funny to find more traditional ale described as having a bold hop forward flavour where it'll have been given a subtle shake of fuggles at knock out. Of course for the discerning hop head is becomes a bit more of a science and we start getting more concerned with oxygen pickup and freshness as well as perceived bitterness and the water treatment. I fight an uphill battle every day because so much of the industry is built on the standards from decades of traditional bitter and pale ale, so treatment guidelines are pushed out based on the assumption your pale is going to be a lightly hopped pale ale, not some ridiculous hop bomb pushing 105IBU's.

Also we buy hops on the futures market not spot price and we bulk buy. Home brew prices for small amounts can easily be 400%+. A kilo of mosaic runs about £16.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

So I'm a little confused. Are you looking for hopping suggestions for a SN-ish APA, or are you really just ranting?
Sure, I've done 10-12 oz in a 5 gallon of NEIPA, but if you want a SN-ish range, I have a delicious APA that uses 1/2 oz Northern brewer for bittering, 1 oz Cascade at 15 min, 1 oz Cascade at 5 min, and 2 oz cascade in the dry hop.
It's a wonderfully balanced but decidedly hoppy (without being excessive or aggressively bitter) Pale Ale (mine is actually a rye pale ale).
So yes, there are plenty of us still brewing good classic American Pale Ales (a la SN).

 

[schematix]

So I'm a little confused. Are you looking for hopping suggestions for a SN-ish APA, or are you really just ranting?
Sure, I've done 10-12 oz in a 5 gallon of NEIPA, but if you want a SN-ish range, I have a delicious APA that uses 1/2 oz Northern brewer for bittering, 1 oz Cascade at 15 min, 1 oz Cascade at 5 min, and 2 oz cascade in the dry hop.
It's a wonderfully balanced but decidedly hoppy (without being excessive or aggressively bitter) Pale Ale (mine is actually a rye pale ale).
So yes, there are plenty of us still brewing good classic American Pale Ales (a la SN).

What's your grain bill?

That hopping schedule is very close to what I've done when wanting to make something SNPA'ish.

Despite all the new hop varieties out there, Cascade is still one of my favorites. Great balance of pine, dank and citrus all in one.

SMaSH Pilsner Malt and Cascade lager is a fantastic summer beer if you exercise restraint on the hops.

 

[TheAleRunner]

Who dry hops with 4oz of hops?!

*raiseshand*

I mean, 4oz is a good number for the first dry hop addition. The second addition is generally about the same.

 

[stz]

I'm not American so find all these recipes and calculations involving imperial measurements kind of curious, but if you want a craft beer hop bomb based on what I'd describe as a session pale compared to traditional ales which isn't a 'speciality' hop tea kind of hip envelope pushing beer try 80% pale, 8% rye and 6% each torrified wheat and dextrine. Mash 65C, aim for a SG of 43-45. Shoot for 40-50IBU from whatever high alpha bittering hop you've got to hand on a 60m boil and make a healthy (1g/L) aroma addition at 15-20 to knock out and another (2.5g/L) at knock out. Dry hop 2 points off FG in primary with another 2.5g/L for no more than 3 days.

Use something like citra and enjoy. Depending on your bittering hop you should be using not more than 4-5oz for a 5gal batch, we aren't pushing IPA territory at all.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

What's your grain bill?

That hopping schedule is very close to what I've done when wanting to make something SNPA'ish.

Despite all the new hop varieties out there, Cascade is still one of my favorites. Great balance of pine, dank and citrus all in one.

SMaSH Pilsner Malt and Cascade lager is a fantastic summer beer if you exercise restraint on the hops.

That Pils/Cascade SMaSH sounds fantastic!

Here is my Harvest Ale (Rye APA).
FWIW, I called it Harvest ale because the first year I made it I used a friend's wet fresh hops, and sticking with the harvest theme, I decided to go multi-grain, hence the wheat and rye. It turned out so good that it became my standard house Pale Ale.
Disclaimer: I have not done this Low O2 yet, but I plan to in a few weeks.
6 lb American 2-row Pale Malt (55%)
2 lb American Rye Malt (18%)
1.5 lb Wheat Malt (14%)
0.5 lb White Wheat Malt (4%)
1 lb Crystal 40 Malt (9%)
---
0.5 oz Northern Brewer@ 10.6% (60 min)
1 oz Cascade @ 6% (15 min)
1 oz Cascade @ 6% (5 min)
2 oz Cascade @6% (dry hop)
I do the classic post-ferm dry hop (not going for biotransformation) because I want it to clear.
Ferment with WLP001 at 68F.

Give it a go - I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

 

[Redlantern]

For me -

2-3 oz in the boil, 3-5 oz in the hop stand and 4-5 oz in dry hop. that is up to 13 oz in a 5-gal batch of IPA.

Not sure what is standard, but this comes up with the taste I like to put in an IPA.

 

[z-bob]

I have a freezer full of hop pellets that I bought 2 or 3 years ago when I first started brewing again. (I bought a pound of this and a pound of that and a pound of something else) I was surprised when it only took an ounce or two per 4 gallon batch. I've brewed some pretty bitter beers (IBU in the 50's) but never tried dry-hopping anything.

 

[kristiismean]

my standard dry hop profile went from nothing, to late late additions and heavy dry hopping.

The past two beers: had 5.5 oz of hops and 1 oz of hop hash.

the next one is due for dry hopping on monday, and will get 3 oz hops (denali and galaxy), 1 oz lulapin citra powder (think 2+ oz citra hops) and 1 oz crystal hop hash.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I do dabble in the hop-heavy stuff occasionally (a NEIPA 2-3 times a year), but mostly I prefer making beer, not hop juice. Not that there;s anything wrong with hop juice if that's your thing, but most days I want beer with hops in it, not hop juice with a hint of beer.

 

[Yooper]

I make a ton of different beers, from a cream ale with .75 ounce total of hops to an IIPA with a whole pound of hops.

It's just what you want to brew, and what you like.

I buy hops by the pound, and grow many pounds, and probably have around 12 pounds of hops in my freezer right now maybe more. I'll have even more this fall, after the 2017 hops are harvested. I would never put $30 of hops in one batch of beer! A pound of hops probably averages $12 or so.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I make a ton of different beers, from a cream ale with .75 ounce total of hops to an IIPA with a whole pound of hops.

It's just what you want to brew, and what you like.

I buy hops by the pound, and grow many pounds, and probably have around 12 pounds of hops in my freezer right now maybe more. I'll have even more this fall, after the 2017 hops are harvested. I would never put $30 of hops in one batch of beer! A pound of hops probably averages $12 or so.

Yeah, I finally started buying in bulk. Buying by the ounce cost me almost $40 in hops alone for my last NEIPA.
Just bought 4 pounds of different varieties and spent barely more than 12 ounces did for my last NEIPA.

 

[passedpawn]

I use a lot of hops, but I don't disparage people who don't. It's your beer, go for it.

 

[GHawk]

...trashing the style does nothing more than inflame. If that's your purpose, doesn't it make you a troll? If it's not, what is the purpose of your post?

My fellow brewer, Sir, I would never troll to inflame for the purpose of being a you know what, which those people have no place in a community forum. Sorry it sounded like that.

So I'm a little confused.... are you really just ranting?.

I'm more or less stating my obvious amazement of the changing pallet of craft beer drinkers these days. It's even more apparent when I research recipes a find people using POUNDS of hops! WOW! REALLY?! (my earlier comments)
20 years ago when I got into this wonderful obsession that wasn't the usual. Maybe not at all. Don't know.

Here is my Harvest Ale (Rye APA).
FWIW, I called it Harvest ale....

That's more my style.
No. Not knocking the IPA, IIIIIIPA craze happening now.
Homebrewers can "create" anything our hearts desire. Prickly Pair or Jolly Ranchers in beer? How did we get penicillin? Ooops! What's that? Wait... Oh. Ok.

As I said, "Am I missing something here not adding" that amount of hops to my brewing?
Still picking myself up off the floor after reading 42oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. :rockin:

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Still picking myself up off the floor after reading 42oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. :rockin:

I have yet to perform the experiment I want to which would determine the point of diminishing returns on dry hopping, but right now I think it is somewhere between 2 and 3 ounces per gallon, above which you are just wasting hops (but not bragging rights) because you've passed the sensory threshold where you can tell the difference when more is added.

With regard to the 42 oz in 5 gallons, that person just wasted a bunch of hops. I would bet a week's pay that in the finished beer, they can't taste a difference from half that much being used.

 

[stz]

With regard to the 42 oz in 5 gallons, that person just wasted a bunch of hops. I would bet a week's pay that in the finished beer, they can't taste a difference from half that much being used.

We brew a dry hopped session pale which got around 6g/L dry hop. We brewed it once with half that and nobody outside of the brewery could tell the difference until told what the difference was. Then we've got regulars who can tell when the FG was half a point higher than usual.

 

[henchman24]

As I said, "Am I missing something here not adding" that amount of hops to my brewing?
Still picking myself up off the floor after reading 42oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. :rockin:

Depends how you define missing out. If you love really hoppy beer and the NEIPA style, yeah you would be missing out. If you don't care for either or both, no not really.

With regard to the 42 oz in 5 gallons, that person just wasted a bunch of hops. I would bet a week's pay that in the finished beer, they can't taste a difference from half that much being used.

I was clearing out hops from my freezer knowing full well it wasn't going to make an enormous difference. There is definitely a diminishing rate of return on hops. In my experience, the difference between 12 and 24 oz in a 5 gallon (trying to net 5 gallons not just 5 gallons not accounting for hop loss) batch is pretty big. 24 to 30 is noticeable, but not large by any means. Beyond that it becomes nuance. Every palette is different though. I'm sure some could pick out differences.

 

[NSMikeD]

With regard to the 42 oz in 5 gallons, that person just wasted a bunch of hops. I would bet a week's pay that in the finished beer, they can't taste a difference from half that much being used.

I would agree - but I do get the need to crank up the amount of hops when you aren't using high AA hops early in the boil to get the desired IBUs while featuring the hop flavor. Aroma is a totally different animal and given the chemistry of dry hopping is completely different, I can't compare efficiency the same as hops added in hot wort.

I also agree that 4 oz should produce a nice hoppy beer, if you aren't using a high AA hop at 60, you'll need to up you hop bill several times over to achieve the same IBUs solely with late additions and this will produce a beer with a lot more hop flavor/spice and aroma than a traditional 4 oz hop bill

 

[Barley_Bob]

So, in direct response to this thread, I'm going to try making a batch using a full pound of hops later this summer. Why not?

 

[filthyastronaut]

Might be lupulin threshold shift at work . . .

Right now I'm drinking the best IPA I've ever made that was made with 6 oz. of hops, in a 2.5 gallon batch. So 12 oz. in 5. I've been finding that amount to be perfect, half boil/whirlpool and half dry hop. I find my IPAs lately to be potent but still relatively balanced compared to some. I have done 1 pound in a 10.2 percent IPA (5 gallons), and it was great, but had malt to back it up. Balance is up to the brewer and the taster, and you make what you want to make, but to me, 12 oz. is balanced in 5 gallons, and to some, it's subpar.

 

[Bosh]

Just made a split batch bitter and when considering a small dry hop I found some 2013/2014 hops in the back of the freezer (Delta and Bravo) and threw in a half pound of them. Really tasty actually, you get a some nice hop taste and smell right when you sip and then wait for the bitterness hit that never comes, all malt after that. Good beer, not too strong and nice and can take nice gulps of it if I want to.

I get all of those hops on sale at $5/pound so why not throw a **** ton of it in?

 

[Mainer]

I really want to try a beer with 42 ounces of Saaz, just to see what happens.

 

[rhys333]

I really want to try a beer with 42 ounces of Saaz, just to see what happens.

Try Sterling. They're like super-Saaz.

 

[Mainer]

Try Sterling. They're like super-Saaz.

I did a Crystal/Sterling IPA last spring. It was pretty good, actually. It's one of the most-requested recipes among my friends. The low-alpha, high-beta nature of the Crystal gave it a longer shelf life than most IPAs.

Edit: (That's Crystal hops, not crystal malt.)

 

[dstockwell]

Made 3.25G batch with 6.5oz of hops.

 

[rhys333]

I wonder what would happen in a side-by-side comparison with two different malt bills and the SAME hops but different hopping rates. They would be rated against each other on flavor, aroma, and overall appeal.

One cloudy, no finings, with haze-inducing ingredients, possibly some Crystal, 1:3 Chloride water ratio, and a NEIPA hopping rate. The other clear, fined, with a simple base malt grist, 1:3 Sulfate water ratio, and half the amount of hops.

EDIT: the differing water chemistry might introduce a bittering variable that could throw things off, but then again it might be okay as long as the goal is to rate overall perception.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I really want to try a beer with 42 ounces of Saaz, just to see what happens.

What will happen is you will waste at least 24 ounces of Saaz.

 

[anteater8]

I brew NEIPA's more than anything else and use 3 oz at flameout, 3 oz at whirlpool, 3 oz at primary DH, and 3 oz at regular DH. Probably what a lot of people do for the style. I have been thinking about cleaning out the old hop freezer and making each of those additions 4, 5 or even 6 oz each just to see what happens.