06.06.06 We should start planning now....

[david_42]

Stiffy: This was created by my late friend Michael Winger and named by his GF (DIIKW) His intent was "a bastard child of a Wee Heavy and a Left Coast IPA"

You seem to be converging on something similar.

10 lbs American Pale
2 lbs Biscuit
1 lbs Aromatic
2.5 lbs Rye flakes
1 lb L40
8 oz. Special B
4 oz. Roasted Barley

90 minutes @ 154F

2 oz. Columbus 60
1 oz. Nugget 45
1 oz. Fuggles 15
0.5 oz. Cascade 5

1728 Scottish Ale Yeast or a Trappist Ale Yeast

The finished volume is: 5 gallons
The original gravity is: 1.087
The alcohol is: 8.7% v/v (6.8% w/w)
The color is: 78 HCU (~30 SRM)
The bitterness is: 127 IBU

 

[kc8flq]

If you don't want it cloudy from protien, do a rest at 122 for 30 mins first.

 

[kc8flq]

Has anyone checked out WLP0028? Lets the hop character come thru nice

 

[Tony]

Has anyone checked out WLP0028? Lets the hop character come thru nice

You are number three on the list to suggest it. Cool!

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

DeRoux..telll me more about this melanoidin malt--can it be steeped for the extract brewers?

Negatory...it must be mashed with some diastatic malt. But it will give a nice reddish color (SRM ~30) and the same flavors as if a decoction mash were executed.

It won't fly if the lowest common dominator is steeping.

I generally try to limit the grains to 4-5 so the flavors don't get to muddled, but I'll take a shot at whatever the concensus is.

 

[SwAMi75]

So, have we narrowed it down to WLP026 or WLP036?

036 is kinda compelling, because it's only available in May and June.

For the extract brewers, don't you think that if the grain bill included a little 2-row, they could steep damn near anything they wanted? At 160, they should be able to get all the conversion they need at about 20 min.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

For the extract brewers, don't you think that if the grain bill included a little 2-row, they could steep damn near anything they wanted? At 160, they should be able to get all the conversion they need at about 20 min.

I think so...but then it would technically be partial mash. OTOH, conversion to the dark side would be nearly assured.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

Negatory...it must be mashed with some diastatic malt. But it will give a nice reddish color (SRM ~30) and the same flavors as if a decoction mash were executed.

It won't fly if the lowest common dominator is steeping.

I generally try to limit the grains to 4-5 so the flavors don't get to muddled, but I'll take a shot at whatever the concensus is.

thanks BeeGee....been tied up today!

 

[Dude]

How about everyone posting their thoughts on the above? I'll go first...

Original Gravity - 1.060 to 1.075
IBU's - 35 to 55
Color - 20 to 27
AV - 7.5% to 8.5%

Base Malt:
2 Row

Specialty Malt: Rye
Munich
Wheat
Crystal
Special B
Smoke
Adjuncts: Flaked Rye
Brown sugar

Mine:

OG: 1.075-1.080
IBUs: 65-75
Color: whatever = RED

Base Malt: 50% 2 row, 50% Rye

Adjuncts:
Munich
Special B
Crystal 90-150L
Brown sugar
Smoked Bamberg (must use enough or it will get lost)

I am very much on the same page as you guys.

We need to nail down the color.

I am also game to use WLP028, sounds really good.

Edinburgh Ale
(WLP028)

Scotland is famous for its malty, strong ales. This yeast can reproduce complex, flavorful Scottish style ales. This yeast can be an everyday strain, similar to WLP001. Hop character is not muted with this strain, as it is with WLP002.

 

[Dude]

You're right on that Pumbaa, good catch. I think the Special B would take us into the brown range, and using Crystal 120L would give it the red color we want.

Also using either light or dark brown sugar will give it too dark a color, so honey or another neutral color sugar would keep it in the right color range.

What else?

I think some special B is key for a depth of flavor. It'll give us a raisiny hint that will work great. I think too much dark crystal like that will affect the color more.

I'm formulating an updated recipe now with all the inputs...

 

[SwAMi75]

I'm liking the original recipe thus far, with the Edinburgh yeast. The ProMash website seems to be down right now, so I can't (re) download it. Thus, I can't mess with the recipe myself.

 

[Dude]

Is this getting close?

I took out the caramel wheat, it will be hard to find for all of us who plan on brewing it for a test, and it also darkened up the recipe. Flaked wheat was the replacement.

Hops--I think this recipe needs to carry some IBUs. I took out the 15 min adition of NB, just to get the IBUs down a bit--but my personal opinion is it is going to need it, but we'll keep it this way cause it seems to be the consensus to go lower. I'm compromising a little... You guys think lower yet?

Do we dryhop? And with what? I say yay, can I get a second?

Do I add the melanoidin?

Extract brewers, don't worry, once we get a hardened recipe down, we'll convert it.



06.06.06
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 16.50
Anticipated OG: 1.081 Plato: 19.65
Anticipated SRM: 19.3
Anticipated IBU: 64.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
36.4 6.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
15.2 2.50 lbs. Flaked Rye America 1.034 2
15.2 2.50 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
12.1 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
6.1 1.00 lbs. Brown Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 60
6.1 1.00 lbs. Smoked(Bamberg) Germany 1.037 9
3.0 0.50 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2
3.0 0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
3.0 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Chinook Whole 13.00 45.7 60 min.
1.00 oz. Northern Brewer Whole 9.00 16.1 30 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette Whole 5.00 2.9 5 min.
Yeast
WLP028

 

[Tony]

Looks good to me. Anyone else?

 

[Rhoobarb]

Just saw this thread this morning. Wow – great idea! I was thinking about posting a similar idea awhile back and never did! Okay, I know I’m late in voting, but here are my thoughts:

I’ll voice my opinion for sticking with the WLP007. I really love this yeast and have used it in two red ales I've brewed. It is highly flocculent; so you get a nice, clean, clear ale. But, I’ll go with whatever majority likes. I really like the idea of smoked grains, but I’d probably smoke my own.

Also, might I suggest, instead of brown sugar, a pound of orange blossom honey? I’ve used orange blossom honey in a couple of brews, including my red ale. It really adds a nice flavor and ups the alcohol content. But it doesn’t give the ale a sweet or ‘honey taste’.

The girlfriend and I did the brewery tour at Flossmoor Station yesterday and really enjoyed their Gandy Dancer Honey Ale and I have always loved their Panama Limited Red – a very hoppy red. Brewmaster Matt Van Wyk told us they use orange blossom honey and rye on the honey ale and typical Northwest hops in the Red – normally a lot of Centennial and Chinook.

So, how about orange blossom honey, rye and Centennial and/or Chinook?

 

[Walker]

We got a name for this thing yet?

I saw "Apoc-Ale-Ypse" suggested. Not too bad.

How about "Armageddon Ale"... as in "Armegeddon me another one from the fridge... you want one?" Har-dee-har-har.

Or, how about "Legion's Ale"? Representative of both the day as well as the countless hoarde brewing it.

Maybe "Mark of the Beast"?

I've already got a dozen label ideas rolling through my head.

-walker

 

[Rhoobarb]

We got a name for this thing yet?...
How about "Armageddon Ale"... as in "Armegeddon me another one from the fridge... you want one?" ... -walker

I like that one! I also thought of Damien's Antichrist Ale (remember The Omen? "Put the gun down, Damien.")

Oh yeah - I vote for dry-hopping! Maybe with Willamette. (?)

 

[Darth Konvel]

I have yet to use rye, but it sounds like it makes an awesome brew. What are your guys' thoughts on using rice hulls with the amount of rye in the recipe so far? At what point do stuck sparges become an issue?

 

[SwAMi75]

I mulled over using honey instead of brown sugar, too. Any honey beer I've tried had a bit of a floral quality to them. I don't know if that would be appropriate for this beer. Plus, I've never brewed with brown sugar, and think it might be interesting.

I'm also inclined to stick with the Edinburg yeast, for reasons we discussed earlier. I think the 007 might make a beer this big a little too hot.

Just my opinion....I'm willing to go with concensus!

Also, I'm really digging that grain bill. I'm almost inclined to suggest swapping the 30 min addition with .5-.75oz of Chinook (what ever would keep the IBU's about the same). Many people find Chinooks a bit too potent, though.

Also, here's another suggestion: Let's all try to use the same recipe. That is, the same basic ingredients. But I say give leeway to tweak the amounts to one's taste, i.e. hop amounts, base malt, etc. Some might want theirs bigger or milder, more or less bitter, and so on. Agreed?

 

[El Pistolero]

Boy, I wish I could help out here, but so far all I know how to do is follow recipes. However, give the smoke and brimstone and blood red and all that, it seems clear to me that the name of this brew should be "Order of the Drakul Imperial Red Ale", or more simply "Vlad's Imperial Red Ale".

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

My only input is still to condense the grain bill to fewer grains/adjuncts, but whatever comes out of the process I'll take a shot at. I am totally in favor of some type of big, hoppy red (sounds dirty).

 

[Rhoobarb]

My only input is still to condense the grain bill to fewer grains/adjuncts...

I'm inclined to agree here. Plus, that might help when converting to extract-only and/or extract with grains versions of this recipe.

I don't know what I'd cut. Maybe the wheat, since you've got flaked rye already? Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Dude]

Also, here's another suggestion: Let's all try to use the same recipe. That is, the same basic ingredients. But I say give leeway to tweak the amounts to one's taste, i.e. hop amounts, base malt, etc. Some might want theirs bigger or milder, more or less bitter, and so on. Agreed?

I am all for tweaking too--in fact if someone brews it up and thinks they have a real winner--let's revisit the recipe and make the changes. Then we'll try to do another batch and enter it in the NHBC. I think we could probably enter it as a "group" beer. That is down the road though.

One thing I think we are starting to veer away from is the "imperial" aspect of it. Next time a chance like this comes around we will all be long gone. The "6" aspect needs to make this beer a real bugger. A beast. I think with our proposed grain bill we've got something pretty good. I'm going to brew up a batch of this Feb 11th. If you see suggestions, keep bringing them up. I'm trying to take everything into account but six pages is a ton to keep track of everybody's inputs.

 

[Dude]

I'm inclined to agree here. Plus, that might help when converting to extract-only and/or extract with grains versions of this recipe.

I don't know what I'd cut. Maybe the wheat, since you've got flaked rye already? Just thinking out loud here...

I can do that. I wonder if the flaked rye has the same head retention qualities that wheat does. I'm guessing no, but like I said, I'm guessing.

I think the complicated grain bill is a necessity though--wait'll you taste the complexity in this beer. Smoke, raisin, sour, flowery (from the hops).....

 

[Rhoobarb]

I can do that. I wonder if the flaked rye has the same head retention qualities that wheat does. I'm guessing no, but like I said, I'm guessing no....

I think it might! At least, that was my experience when I used flaked rye. I brewed up an extract w/ grain version of the Hop Rod Rye and it had a rocky, foamy head that didn't go away. But I used some flaked wheat in that recipe, too.

 

[Dude]

Okay, how about this for a name, seeing it has been mentioned a few times already...

"Beast of the Fire and Brimstone"

I can see the label already. Fire, a beast, dark.....oh man........beer wood again!!!!!

It all fits, beast cause its a big beer, fire cause we ahve a smoke thing going, and brimstone because of the obvious references with 666 and all that...

I think it is a perfect fit guys (and gals)....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone

 

[Tony]

I think it might! At least, that was my experience when I used flaked rye. I brewed up an extract w/ grain version of the Hop Rod Rye and it had a rocky, foamy head that didn't go away. But I used some flaked wheat in that recipe, too.

Indeed it does. Rhoobard hit the nail on the head. I do the AG version of Hop Rod Rye and ALWAYS have a thick lingering head. It only has a 1/2 pound of german dark wheat, so that has a hand in it, but not that much. I know raw rye is used to help in head retention, so flaked would generally be the same, along with imparting a dry, crisp flavor.

Sooo...whats up with the brown sugar or honey addition? Whats the verdict?

 

[Dude]

Indeed it does. Rhoobard hit the nail on the head. I do the AG version of Hop Rod Rye and ALWAYS have a thick lingering head. It only has a 1/2 pound of german dark wheat, so that has a hand in it, but not that much. I know raw rye is used to help in head retention, so flaked would generally be the same, along with imparting a dry, crisp flavor.

Sooo...whats up with the brown sugar or honey addition? Whats the verdict?

okay, taking the wheat out.....

I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

 

[Rhoobarb]

okay, taking the wheat out.....

I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

I don't think color will really be a big issue. I've used dark brown sugar on a nut brown ale before. It will add a little color and give the ale a very slight tart or cidery taste - which in a big beer, can be good. Honey tends to make for a slightly drier taste and most of the sweetness ferments away. I have both on hand, so it's a coin-toss for me! Whatever the majority decides is fine by me.

In the words of Flounder, "Oh booooy, is this greeeeat!?!"

 

[Tony]

...I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

No problem, just as long as we arent still trying to get a red color. As with the Special B and brown sugar, we will get a more pronounced brown. And thats okay with me, we really dont need to worry about that. The flavor of Special B is more of a desireable aspect than color in my opinion.

Anyone else?

 

[Dude]

No problem, just as long as we arent still trying to get a red color. As with the Special B and brown sugar, we will get a more pronounced brown. And thats okay with me, we really dont need to worry about that. The flavor of Special B is more of a desireable aspect than color in my opinion.

Anyone else?

See, I'd like it red, that is a major sticking point for me....

What makes a good red? It is hard to find info on what malts give that good copper color.

 

[Darth Konvel]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

 

[Dude]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

Yeah, I was always under the impression Special B was one of the malts specifically used for a red color, as well as obvious depth of flavor.....

This is ultimate going to come down to experimentation....and I'm a willing participant to brew this a few times and reap the rewards of sampling it!!!!!

 

[Tony]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

Believe me guys, I dig it as well, and I really hate being the nay-sayer of the bunch on the Special B. Its an extremely dark caramel malt, with a Lovibond of 145 to 155. And even with switching to honey, a 1/4 pound will still cause a dark color. Im just not sure about it when looking for a red color. Just giving my opinion. Im hoping maybe we can get a blood color from using it sparingly.

 

[Tony]

Yeah, I was always under the impression Special B was one of the malts specifically used for a red color, as well as obvious depth of flavor.....

This is ultimate going to come down to experimentation....and I'm a willing participant to brew this a few times and reap the rewards of sampling it!!!!!

Crystal 120L give a more redder color, but Im up to experiment as well. Besides, it definately will be enjoyable.

 

[Dude]

Believe me guys, I dig it as well, and I really hate being the nay-sayer of the bunch on the Special B. Its an extremely dark caramel malt, with a Lovibond of 145 to 155. And even with switching to honey, a 1/4 pound will still cause a dark color. Im just not sure about it when looking for a red color. Just giving my opinion. Im hoping maybe we can get a blood color from using it sparingly.

I hear ya man--this is freaking fun isn't it?

We'll get this narrowed down and brew it up a few times and see what we come up with....

 

[Pumbaa]

I got couple graphics we could use for the label too . . .

Devils

and just a cool little dragon

plus various different flames

speaking of flames . . . .

This is pretty flaming

 

[dave-m]

WTF Pumbaa,

I thought we were talkin' about making beer here!!

That pretty much came outta' left field.

Funny though....

 

[Treekiller]

YIKES, I'm scared.

 

[El Pistolero]

This is pretty flaming

I really love your label suggestions, but respectfully, you don't know squat about flaming.

 

[rewster451]

Wow, this is a REALLY cool idea. I just got in on this. I used a Cara red grain in my Irish red. It came out pretty dark, because it's extract, and extracts tend to get dark. If you used the grain bill I used with AG, you might get a blood red color. I'm going to try to find that and post it.