Nice to see other folks going the low-tech/cheapskate route. I’m delighted that I can produce really excellent coffee for $6 a lb with just a pot and whisk and a little spare time. Interestingly, I’ve used the same method to make brown malt a few times. It smells like bacon! And it has a first crack, just like coffee (I haven’t tried taking it to second crack yet).
☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting
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HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Speaking of simple roasting, the Bullet has arrived. Haven't unboxed it yet, hopefully later in the week. I've been reading up on how to roast with it... Going to be a big change of pace from the Behmor.
Aillio just introduced a new prototype called the Bullseye. It's a 2kg roaster for dummies. Their intent is anyone working at a Cafe could operate it and roast coffee because it's fully auto. Not sure how I feel about the idea, or how many cafes would take the plunge on something like that. Obviously large cost savings to roast in house, but do you trust a computer program to roast your coffee? It won't be rolled out for a while so we'll see what happens, but check it out. They are introducing some new technology with it as well.
Aillio just introduced a new prototype called the Bullseye. It's a 2kg roaster for dummies. Their intent is anyone working at a Cafe could operate it and roast coffee because it's fully auto. Not sure how I feel about the idea, or how many cafes would take the plunge on something like that. Obviously large cost savings to roast in house, but do you trust a computer program to roast your coffee? It won't be rolled out for a while so we'll see what happens, but check it out. They are introducing some new technology with it as well.
Small update:
My new rotor should arrive by Tuesday. I did get the lower burr carrier in though. I had to spend some time cleaning the threads for the adjustment ring. That was a PITA. I drilled out the new holes for the backplate and doserless chute. Now to get some screws for it all. I’m hoping that by the end of next week I may be using this thing. Fingers crossed.
I also got the new grate and badge for the La Pavoni and I can call this one finished, at least for now. [emoji6]
@HarborTownBrewing. Have you roasted any batches yet?!
My new rotor should arrive by Tuesday. I did get the lower burr carrier in though. I had to spend some time cleaning the threads for the adjustment ring. That was a PITA. I drilled out the new holes for the backplate and doserless chute. Now to get some screws for it all. I’m hoping that by the end of next week I may be using this thing. Fingers crossed.
I also got the new grate and badge for the La Pavoni and I can call this one finished, at least for now. [emoji6]
@HarborTownBrewing. Have you roasted any batches yet?!
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
That is gorgeous Jimyson!
I only unboxed the Bullet last night despite it sitting in my living room for a week. I'm waiting on an exhaust adapter that was 3d printed so it'll probably be another week before I actually roast on it.
I will say: from the looks of it, this roaster is BA. It also looks like a pig, which is kind of cute. So it's like a bad ass pig.
I've been doing some research on it and learning a bunch about roasting, but it's going to be such a learning curve going from the Behmor to the Bullet. It took me a while to get the Behmor down, having come from a whirlypop. Now I've basically got to throw all that knowledge out the window and change my roasting methodology on the Bullet. I expect some growing pains, but I'm looking forward to seeing if the coffee is better.
Also I'm curious about output. I read on the Bullet page last night that someone did 11 straight 1kg roasts yesterday, so about 24 pounds of coffee. That would have taken me about a week in the Behmor!
If anyone has any roasting resources to recommend, I'm all ears. Though I'll slap the first person to say Scott Rao's name.
I only unboxed the Bullet last night despite it sitting in my living room for a week. I'm waiting on an exhaust adapter that was 3d printed so it'll probably be another week before I actually roast on it.
I will say: from the looks of it, this roaster is BA. It also looks like a pig, which is kind of cute. So it's like a bad ass pig.
I've been doing some research on it and learning a bunch about roasting, but it's going to be such a learning curve going from the Behmor to the Bullet. It took me a while to get the Behmor down, having come from a whirlypop. Now I've basically got to throw all that knowledge out the window and change my roasting methodology on the Bullet. I expect some growing pains, but I'm looking forward to seeing if the coffee is better.
Also I'm curious about output. I read on the Bullet page last night that someone did 11 straight 1kg roasts yesterday, so about 24 pounds of coffee. That would have taken me about a week in the Behmor!
If anyone has any roasting resources to recommend, I'm all ears. Though I'll slap the first person to say Scott Rao's name.
T Though I'll slap the first person to say Scott Rao's name.
I am still being haunted by this article: What is Baked Coffee?
After switching over to 2mm probes (from hurking 5mm's) I am in the same boat; learning to roast all over again. I am determined to get this down & maintain and steady, declining RoR. I am also fully entrenched in the percentage of phase camp after looking at so many graph's from the Crown Jewels. It's been tricky & that super responsive probe on MET is like having a microscope on the roast. It's forced me to take better notes on settings & really get more dialed in. I've been plowing through a 22lb box of Guat from the Crown. Great coffee to experiment with. Very predictable to roast & lets you know if you underdeveloped it in the cup.
And since you asked....
YOUR BEAN PROBE HAS BEEN LYING TO YOU.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
RM's just posted a fresh crop Kenyan. Anyone else excited to see all the new offerings roll in?
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I forgot, new beans are about due aren't they!
What do you think they mean about Behmor users using p1 or P3? Are they saying that you wait until a heavy fc at P5 man and then drop it back to p1 to let it ride longer?
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
They are probably talking about the programs, not manual mode. A lot of people use p3 for the whole roast.
For Kenyans I like to modulate between P5 and p4 in manual mode, then at 1sr crack go to p1 for 30 secs, then to P5. Then stop the roast 20 sec after 1c ends.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Sure. Sounds great. Embarrassed to ask, but fresher is better?
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Stayed up looking at gaggia anima i think it is. Fully automatic. I wonder if the esspresso will be a touch watery. I want a zymatic too.
in a nutshell, yes. if proper care is taken though past crop can hold up exceptionally well. George Howell is a testament to this. Unfortunately retailers are not generally on this level as it eats into their profit margin (they gotta eat too right?) Furthermore all the very best stuff gets bought up right away. Sit on the sidelines and you'll likely miss out. I'm hoping to be selective this year & hopefully acquire large amounts of at least 2 exceptional lots.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Last year I stocked up on some really good Kenyan and Ethiopian coffees early when they became available. Then a few weeks later more harvests came in and sweet Maria's said they were even better than initial offerings.
So... I never know what to do.
So... I never know what to do.
applescrap
Be the ball!
^^thanks, I would like to get a couple good lots too! Dont want to miss out this year and glad to be getting ready, thanks again for the heads up. Cant recall was that konga a fresh batch? Last year you guys got the Banko right? That was pretty amazing. Haha, no kenyan for me. I did buy 5 pounds of it from bl when it was on sale and I got a a variety of the most expensive they had. They cleay werent the most exceptional kenyans but they were good. Still not for me, but I did enjoy their robust flavors a little more.
I guess I’m just destined to get the plain old regular coffee when trying to make coffee for two. I got some in the mail today.
Uganda Bugisu
Colombia Huila San Agustin
Brazil Sitio Jacutinga
Costa Rica Tarrazu La Minita
Uganda Bugisu
Colombia Huila San Agustin
Brazil Sitio Jacutinga
Costa Rica Tarrazu La Minita
applescrap
Be the ball!
Those coffees sound great jimyson. If they are tasty and make you happy, thats what its all about. Also, they are great if you are still dialing in your roasts. I am not going to let a few dollars a pound keep me from what I want anymore. That thinking (which seems ubiquitous) that I (many) were raised with I believe, has diminished my life. Im going to veer off a little here. Note, if you look back in this thread you will see where i bought only bl sale coffee.
I am also very forth coming in offering that thinking to anyone. Often met with unusual responses at best. My friend will start using cars as comparison. Clearly a 40k difference in cars is not the same as avoiding kroger cheese. That thinking permeated everything in my life. Electronics, hotels, cooking, etc. I feel like I was freed up a little. I get around my brother, sister, well most people the discussion is often how cheap that is or what kind of a restaurant deal this is. I only go out to eat like once a month at the most. So when I do I'm not looking for the cheapest meal I can get for a deal. My brother and Mom wanted to go somewhere I can't remember where. I suggested we go to my new favorite burger place. It's amazingly beautiful inside with an awesome Colorado patio looking over the Platte river. By Colorado patio I mean people walk-in, bike in from all over the place, dogs, etc. Anyways they have something like 80 or 90 beers on tap. The whole time until the food came had to hear about how cheap it was somewhere else. It's like 950 for a basic hamburger in there. The food comes out and it's amazing. They're real fries with skins and I think they put truffle oil and parmesan or something on them. It's like really good buns and the food is amazing there. And my brother's going, this is so good, this is so good. I wonder if in all his lust to save $0.30 here and there if he hasn't had anything that tasted that good in a while. He also makes a ton of money and I dont know why, but hearing him want to cheap everything in his life even though he does really well is annoys me for some reason. Just my 2c. I read this over and over and hope I am not insulting anyone. I learned this thinking here from Jammin and others. And have many times over stated how much better and tastier my life is.
I am also very forth coming in offering that thinking to anyone. Often met with unusual responses at best. My friend will start using cars as comparison. Clearly a 40k difference in cars is not the same as avoiding kroger cheese. That thinking permeated everything in my life. Electronics, hotels, cooking, etc. I feel like I was freed up a little. I get around my brother, sister, well most people the discussion is often how cheap that is or what kind of a restaurant deal this is. I only go out to eat like once a month at the most. So when I do I'm not looking for the cheapest meal I can get for a deal. My brother and Mom wanted to go somewhere I can't remember where. I suggested we go to my new favorite burger place. It's amazingly beautiful inside with an awesome Colorado patio looking over the Platte river. By Colorado patio I mean people walk-in, bike in from all over the place, dogs, etc. Anyways they have something like 80 or 90 beers on tap. The whole time until the food came had to hear about how cheap it was somewhere else. It's like 950 for a basic hamburger in there. The food comes out and it's amazing. They're real fries with skins and I think they put truffle oil and parmesan or something on them. It's like really good buns and the food is amazing there. And my brother's going, this is so good, this is so good. I wonder if in all his lust to save $0.30 here and there if he hasn't had anything that tasted that good in a while. He also makes a ton of money and I dont know why, but hearing him want to cheap everything in his life even though he does really well is annoys me for some reason. Just my 2c. I read this over and over and hope I am not insulting anyone. I learned this thinking here from Jammin and others. And have many times over stated how much better and tastier my life is.
Not to piggy back on the hijack, so in advance, I apologize to the rest of the thread. I feel like ppl on this thread/forum have the same mentality as you. We could go to a gas station and pick up a cup of coffee for a dollar, but we are not satisfied with that. We would rather spend the money on the process and quality ingredients than the convenience. The same could be said with home brewing and the BMC beer crowd.
When I go on vacation I avoid the chain restaurants and always try to find a local place with a lot of vehicles in the lot. YOLO and if I am going to spend the money I might as well pony up the extra $5 bucks to get something I will enjoy. And if I can’t afford to spend that extra little bit, than I probably shouldn’t be going out in the first place.
applescrap
Be the ball!
^^i am not convinced that everyone shares that spend the 5 dollars extra sentiment. In fact I have had this same discussion too many times on various threads for that to be true. That said I am glad for you to chime in. Your example is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Why not spend that extra $5 at dinner it's worth 50 times that in quality sometimes. When it comes to Homebrew I finally splashed out for a 55 lb sack of golden promise instead of $35 for a bag of malteurope. Hope it is great.
Circling back to coffee I remain unconvinced that machines add more to the coffee then the coffee itself. Any astute reader is wondering hey you use a DeLonghi ec155 $50 espresso machine what about that . There are many reasons to own a nice piece of equipment. Longevity, Joy of ownership, perhaps consistency, more options, more adjustability, ease-of-use, enjoyment of use, excetera. That being said I believe coffee gives up its flavor readily. I believe that most methods of extracting will work to some degree or another. And in a blind taste test quality of the machine will be harder to discern then quality of coffee. Here is two videos. One is Gail from Seattle Coffee Gear taste testing a $300 esspresso vs a $3,000 machine. She states, I'm going to take a wild guess. Ultimately she gets it right and kind of rides it from there, but it's clear up until that point that she's having trouble telling. The other video has some good basic information in it as well by the way about coffee, is a video of a coffee expert tasting different prices of coffee. He can tell pretty much which coffee is more expensive just by looking. And he clearly gets each one right and I think every one of us would too. I'm not trying to start anything and I clearly outlined only some of the things that nice machines do that others don't. I want a nicer espresso machine for many of the reasons above and I believe espresso will be a little better at least in perception. But the real reason is I want one is joy of use and ownership, as well as quality, options, and ease of use. All that being said comparing $3,000 espresso machine and paying a few bucks more for a pound of coffee are different. These are pictures of shots that I took all on different days on different mornings this week.
Circling back to coffee I remain unconvinced that machines add more to the coffee then the coffee itself. Any astute reader is wondering hey you use a DeLonghi ec155 $50 espresso machine what about that . There are many reasons to own a nice piece of equipment. Longevity, Joy of ownership, perhaps consistency, more options, more adjustability, ease-of-use, enjoyment of use, excetera. That being said I believe coffee gives up its flavor readily. I believe that most methods of extracting will work to some degree or another. And in a blind taste test quality of the machine will be harder to discern then quality of coffee. Here is two videos. One is Gail from Seattle Coffee Gear taste testing a $300 esspresso vs a $3,000 machine. She states, I'm going to take a wild guess. Ultimately she gets it right and kind of rides it from there, but it's clear up until that point that she's having trouble telling. The other video has some good basic information in it as well by the way about coffee, is a video of a coffee expert tasting different prices of coffee. He can tell pretty much which coffee is more expensive just by looking. And he clearly gets each one right and I think every one of us would too. I'm not trying to start anything and I clearly outlined only some of the things that nice machines do that others don't. I want a nicer espresso machine for many of the reasons above and I believe espresso will be a little better at least in perception. But the real reason is I want one is joy of use and ownership, as well as quality, options, and ease of use. All that being said comparing $3,000 espresso machine and paying a few bucks more for a pound of coffee are different. These are pictures of shots that I took all on different days on different mornings this week.
The law of diminishing returns kicks in quickly with espresso machines (coffee machines too for that matter). Where you get the biggest improvement in flavor is from quality beans & grinder. The importance of good grind quality cannot be understated, ESPECIALLY when it comes to espresso.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yeah I have a lot of thoughts on this. I really look at value in a lot of different regards.
What gets me on Facebook coffee groups is how many people buy beans online then complain about not hearing crack or their coffee tasting good. Or people who buy a roaster and think it should taste like Intelligentsia after 10 roasts. Those people really bother me.
Anyways, I think about cost/benefit a lot but for me it's about experiences and payback. Not about brewing x number of batches to pay for equipment, or the same thing with coffee. These are hobbies, not penny pinching exercises.
What gets me on Facebook coffee groups is how many people buy beans online then complain about not hearing crack or their coffee tasting good. Or people who buy a roaster and think it should taste like Intelligentsia after 10 roasts. Those people really bother me.
Anyways, I think about cost/benefit a lot but for me it's about experiences and payback. Not about brewing x number of batches to pay for equipment, or the same thing with coffee. These are hobbies, not penny pinching exercises.
I am roasting some peaberry beans for the first time. Even when they get to first crack and a little longer, are they still normally hard as a rock? I always chew a few beans after roasting and never had any this hard before.
I feel like they may not go through the grinder (Bratza Encore) very well.
Is this normal with peaberry beans?
I feel like they may not go through the grinder (Bratza Encore) very well.
Is this normal with peaberry beans?
The couple i have bought were all hard beans. My grinder struggled a bit but got through them. They killed my old hand mill though.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Introduced my parents to espresso today. They have a 15 or 20 year old Mr coffee espresso machine they've never taken the time to try so I ran some Ethiopian through it. Their minds were blown haha. It definitely wasn't the greatest but it wasn't bad at all and you could taste the Blueberry in it that I get with pour over.
My parents also have one of those. I’ve been conned into using it, but my parents have never shown any interest in learning how to use it.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Good morning! Well it was morning but signals can be hard to come by Ot..thats kenyan gicherori. Its plenty good and maybe the best of all the Kenyans i got. You guys would probably like it. At 7.45 probably not quite worth it but at 30 percent off when i got it, you kenyan lovers might have wanted to get 5 pounds or more.
Ot..thats kenyan gicherori. Its plenty good and maybe the best of all the Kenyans i got. You guys would probably like it. At 7.45 probably not quite worth it but at 30 percent off when i got it, you kenyan lovers might have wanted to get 5 pounds or more.
applescrap
Be the ball!
I went into a coffee shop and i think they had the simonelli nuova grinder mdx. Anyways I noticed that the doser was filled to the brim. It seemed like everybody was drinking drip coffee. They had an aurelia 2 3 group as well. Considering they are maybe selling only a couple shots a day, or even if they aren't should the Dozer be completely filled with pre-ground coffee? Wouldn't you grind the coffee as people ordered it? I thought it was odd but I didn't want to be a Richard not knowing.
Paulaner
Well-Known Member
You're exactly right, these are the little things you notice when you got a hobby like this. My wife and I were walking around in a big city park in Europe one day and out of the blue some guy had a little coffee shop setup out the back of his truck, he had a mazzer super jolly and a la cimbali espresso maker so I couldn't resist a shot. At first my wife looked at me weird when I said we gotta get some coffee from him, but I told her you gotta trust me on this one and he definitely didn't disappoint.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Went to a newer coffee shop in my parents town. They serve Madcap and I've had their drip there, it's very good. Like you'd expect.
This time I tried their espresso. I watched the guy making the shot... I don't think they do a lot of shots sans frothed milk. I knew i was in trouble when I watched the guy turn around to check a cheat sheet with the proper weight for the Porta filter. Then I watched him fill it horribly uneven, THEN proceed to tamp it without evening it out at all.
Horrible shot with really good coffee. Very disappointing. Not sure if I should have said anything. They are unique to a rural market, for sure, and they seem to be doing okay but they have the potential to be the best Cafe within a 45 mile drive. They just have to learn how to pull shots...
This time I tried their espresso. I watched the guy making the shot... I don't think they do a lot of shots sans frothed milk. I knew i was in trouble when I watched the guy turn around to check a cheat sheet with the proper weight for the Porta filter. Then I watched him fill it horribly uneven, THEN proceed to tamp it without evening it out at all.
Horrible shot with really good coffee. Very disappointing. Not sure if I should have said anything. They are unique to a rural market, for sure, and they seem to be doing okay but they have the potential to be the best Cafe within a 45 mile drive. They just have to learn how to pull shots...
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Where are those pics from @applescrap ? Looks gorgeous. And hot. Very hot.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I got the Aillio all set up last night and ran it for a bit to see if any adjustments needed to be made. Just about everything ran smoothly but I did have to make a couple tweaks which got me inside the unit. It's very well made, really nice looking.
Compared to the Behmor, it's just a different beast all together. I knew this...but it still surprised me. I connected it to the computer and got it up and running on the software and it's so cool to be able to modulate the heat, drum, and fan all by clicking around on the laptop.
Hoping to pick up some needed duct work tonight so I can actually do a roast on it tonight. Once I get it set up I'll have to post a few pics.
Compared to the Behmor, it's just a different beast all together. I knew this...but it still surprised me. I connected it to the computer and got it up and running on the software and it's so cool to be able to modulate the heat, drum, and fan all by clicking around on the laptop.
Hoping to pick up some needed duct work tonight so I can actually do a roast on it tonight. Once I get it set up I'll have to post a few pics.
BrewinHooligan
Well-Known Member
applescrap
Be the ball!
That roaster sounds sweet harbortown. Glad to hear its well made. Cant wait to see it in action, you have the patience of the dali lama. That was arches np and this is cedar breaks nm. Drinking guat and kenyan.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Got everything connected last night and ran 1lb of seasoning beans through it. Everything went smoothly for the most part... Have a slight adjustment to make but it purred along without issues as far as I can tell. The cooling system, even with a smallish looking fan, worked wonderfully.
I wanted to run this a couple days ago even though the duct I had didn't work, and I'm glad I waited until I got a new duct. The amount of smoke coming from the roaster was... Unhealthy,at least if it weren't ventilated. I will say that the Behmor afterburner does a great job now that I've seen what happens when there isn't an afterburner.
My conundrum now is, do I want to learn to roast on this in Fahrenheit or Celsius. Most people seem to roast on the Aillio in C,likely because many of them are overseas.
I wanted to run this a couple days ago even though the duct I had didn't work, and I'm glad I waited until I got a new duct. The amount of smoke coming from the roaster was... Unhealthy,at least if it weren't ventilated. I will say that the Behmor afterburner does a great job now that I've seen what happens when there isn't an afterburner.
My conundrum now is, do I want to learn to roast on this in Fahrenheit or Celsius. Most people seem to roast on the Aillio in C,likely because many of them are overseas.
Probably one you don’t want to miss -
https://www.sweetmarias.com/ethiopia-dry-process-guji-hambela.html
I grabbed 10lbs
https://www.sweetmarias.com/ethiopia-dry-process-guji-hambela.html
I grabbed 10lbs
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Wow! Thanks for pointing that out, that's a good looking coffee and only $5.70 a pound with 10 lbs. I got 10 of that and 10 lbs of Tanzania Tarime Town, which I've really enjoyed in the past.
like clockwork, just made an order 2 days ago
HoppyDaze
Well-Known Member
Amen brother! Life is much too short to be a cheap skate. That doesn't mean go out and buy frivolous BS you can't afford or don't need; it simply means spend money on the things that make you happy or things you use the most. For me, where I tend to splurge is on experiences...like going out to a concert or comedy show, vacations...etc and other things we use all the time like we bought the top of the line mattress, built a deck in our yard (we use every evening) out of hardwood instead of cedar or that fake plastic stuff. Once I adapted this mindset I've felt so much better. I have some cheap friends and family who are just non-stop deal hunting and it's almost sad to watch and it's definitely a bummer when we're doing things together when both side have to throw down money. I'll be in Minneapolis next month and we want to go to a Twins game; the in-laws do too but they don't want to spend much money. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I WILL EVER GO TO A TWINS GAME! So now I'm thinking about just buying their tickets so I don't have to sit in the nose-bleeds. lol
applescrap
Be the ball!
@HoppyDaze exactly. So well said. I used stubhub for rockies tix and i bet you will get a killer deal on twins. I am usually cool if i am first row or two anywhere on the field. My fil rocks tix were 15th row behind home plate. Was fun. You pointed out a huge area where being cheap was not wise. The meaningless savings at times has left us with bad pools, hotels, experiences, etc. The deck is amazing for sure. My speakers, these roasters, quality is surely worth saving for. Damnit if I can only save!
Ok everyone please let me know how the coffee is soon. Im almost out and dont want to jump in blind.
Ok everyone please let me know how the coffee is soon. Im almost out and dont want to jump in blind.
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I might question some people on this forum about beer brewing, but if @jammin says anything about a coffee I just get it and thank him later.
I just ordered 7 lbs.
I still have 10 lbs of the Banko that I'm going through in numerous ways. I roasted and cold brewed a pound and put it on nitro for the wife. That was a huge hit!
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