☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting
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OP
OP
This AM, I roasted 3# of some costa rican bean I bought locally. Can't wait to get it in the cup.
HarborTownBrewing
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Passed, I'm interested to hear if your costa tastes really good. I can get a nice clean cup of CR, but nothing extraordinary.
OP
OP
I''ll know next week when I run out of my current coffee.
thats a pretty gnarly batch!!
the RK drum is a great way to get into home roasting if you need a lot of coffee and have a nice gas BBQ ~
http://www.rkdrums.com/index.php/en/
OP
OP
I've been fantasizing over something just like what you show there jammin. I want a cage I can attach to a rotisserie over my weber. It's just one more thing to keep me thinking about work 
Chuginator
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I've been fantasizing over something just like what you show there jammin. I want a cage I can attach to a rotisserie over my weber. It's just one more thing to keep me thinking about work
Sorry, but can you remind me what your current roast method is? I don't mean to poo poo anything but that result appears to be screaming of inconsistency. Ultimately doesn't matter if you enjoy the cup. Just curious.
OP
OP
Yea, it is terrible really. There are a few chars in there, a few unroasted, and a bunch in the middle.
I use a Stir Crazy style popcorn popper. It has a rotating arm to "sorta" stir the beans, but you really need to shake the heck out of it when you get near 1C. It doesn't work for ****, but it's electric and I can use it outdoors. And, TBH, I like the coffee I make.
I used to use a whirley pop. That worked great and did roast consistently. My first one had a nylon gear that fell apart. I've since bought a full stainless one, but I haven't used it because I really don't want to roast indoors anymore due to the smoke.
I'm aware of a lot of options that will result in much better roasts. I'm going to pull the trigger on one of them in the near future. Too many hobbies these days.
Chuginator
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Ok, that explains it! Thanks! It did remind me a bit of the first roast I ever did in a cast iron pan over a propane burner.
Joined that GCC group. How will you know when they get new inventory?
TD
TD
Here is a picture I took after roasting yesterday. 8oz of Bolivia Braulio Luque from roastmasters. First time using the roaster outside, it was around 62F when I was out there. Not sure if it was the coffee or the bit lower ambient temperature but it took almost 13min to get to 1c. Usually it's 11min. 1c lasted about 90s. I wanted to roast just into 2c and open the door for quick cooling. End of 1c to start of what I thought was 2c was just 10-15s and I switched to cooling with the door open. So, it seems I am going from 1c to 2c too quickly? Thoughts?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426542508.490598.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426542508.490598.jpg
That looks pretty nice to me, but I'm a total NooB!
Which roaster do you use? I keep mine in the outside kitchen, roast outside. its 81º out there right now.
Like a DOPE, I forgot about the built in safety features on mine, and it stopped the "roast" before I ever added the beans! I was pre-heating to a hotter temp than the built in alarm to add beans signals. Now I have to wait until it cools off. Grrr!
TD
Which roaster do you use? I keep mine in the outside kitchen, roast outside. its 81º out there right now.
Like a DOPE, I forgot about the built in safety features on mine, and it stopped the "roast" before I ever added the beans! I was pre-heating to a hotter temp than the built in alarm to add beans signals. Now I have to wait until it cools off. Grrr!
TD
^Good looking roast what i can see - but eye cupping generally isn't very helpful
I suspect the beans were very dried out by the time they finished 1C due to the extended time they spent in the roaster.
1C is steam escaping the bean, 2C is the actual cell walls rupturing. Water is a fantastic conductor of heat, so with hardly any of it left, the beans were just plain ol' get'n torched - so they quickly progressed into 2C.
If the coffee was grown in the lower end of the altitude spectrum, the beans may not have been as dense - this could have been part of the problem as well.
My suggestion to fix this issue would be to either put your foot on the gas and achieve 1C by 9-9.5 minutes by increasing the power at the start and through the middle of the roast. If this is not an option, I would suggest working with a slightly smaller batch size that allows you more control over the roast.
If you ever decide to get a Variac and couple it with a Kill-A-Watt, you will be able to adjust line voltage and have it the same for every single roast. This not only allows max power for your roaster, but more importantly will give you maximum consistency between roasts.
Edit: ^TD - I remember those days! Id love to roast a couple batches with you on my Quest It's all manual w/no child safety devices haha
I suspect the beans were very dried out by the time they finished 1C due to the extended time they spent in the roaster.
1C is steam escaping the bean, 2C is the actual cell walls rupturing. Water is a fantastic conductor of heat, so with hardly any of it left, the beans were just plain ol' get'n torched - so they quickly progressed into 2C.
If the coffee was grown in the lower end of the altitude spectrum, the beans may not have been as dense - this could have been part of the problem as well.
My suggestion to fix this issue would be to either put your foot on the gas and achieve 1C by 9-9.5 minutes by increasing the power at the start and through the middle of the roast. If this is not an option, I would suggest working with a slightly smaller batch size that allows you more control over the roast.
If you ever decide to get a Variac and couple it with a Kill-A-Watt, you will be able to adjust line voltage and have it the same for every single roast. This not only allows max power for your roaster, but more importantly will give you maximum consistency between roasts.
Edit: ^TD - I remember those days! Id love to roast a couple batches with you on my Quest
It's all manual w/no child safety devices haha
I have a Behmor 1600+ I think I've done about 20 batches on it now, so i feel like I'm starting to get familiar enough with it to know what to expect, which is why i was a bit surprised by that batch taking a bit longer than others.
^Good looking roast what i can see - but eye cupping generally isn't very helpful
I suspect the beans were very dried out by the time they finished 1C due to the extended time they spent in the roaster.
1C is steam escaping the bean, 2C is the actual cell walls rupturing. Water is a fantastic conductor of heat, so with hardly any of it left, the beans were just plain ol' get'n torched - so they quickly progressed into 2C.
If the coffee was grown in the lower end of the altitude spectrum, the beans may not have been as dense - this could have been part of the problem as well.
My suggestion to fix this issue would be to either put your foot on the gas and achieve 1C by 9-9.5 minutes by increasing the power at the start and through the middle of the roast. If this is not an option, I would suggest working with a slightly smaller batch size that allows you more control over the roast.
If you ever decide to get a Variac and couple it with a Kill-A-Watt, you will be able to adjust line voltage and have it the same for every single roast. This not only allows max power for your roaster, but more importantly will give you maximum consistency between roasts.
The coffee's description says that it's from higher altitude.
The 1600+ lets me adjust some without a variac, i can switch to manual mode and set the heating elements to 0,25,50,75, or 100% of power. I haven't used it yet, but I'm wondering if i should start playing with manual mode, run higher power up to 1c, then cut it back to stretch out the time between 1c and 2c. That should give me some better ability to start cooling when i'm at my desired roast level.
Looking at the program that i used, it uses 100% power at the start until about 7 minutes in, switches to 70%, then after 12 minutes switches back up to 100%. So, when i got to 1c, it had just switched back to full power, which explains how quickly it got from 1c to 2c. I guess this is why people are critical of it's roast programs.
So, in general, is it better to hit the coffee with full power and heat it up to 1c, then cut back? The p1 program is just 100% power all of the time, so i could easily just use that, then switch to manual mode at 75 or 50% as soon as 1c starts.
I'm with you here! Its like a secret (but not so secret that they don't share - at least on HBT) coffee roasting cult! the science behind it and the strategy to achieve your goal are pretty new concepts to me. Trying to read up, but other than this thread, not sure where to look!
I think that from what I've read, and I only have 5 roasts under my belt, so take it with a grain of salt, that you want even "drying" - rapid but not so rapid that that you get central bean "wetness". Then the phase between drying completion and 1C, I'm not sure what happens here - have read that sugar "carmelization" can happen if "prolonged" vs less carmelization if you proceed rapidly though which might preserve some natural sweetness in the cup? Finally, I think that depending on the bean, the period between 1C onset and end of 1C is when the last bits of moisture escape, explosively, and that the carmelization, malliard reactions, and maybe a "gelatinization" process similar to a cereal mash ? happens here and max flavors are developed? Not sure entirely, but seems that once you hit 2C you are headed for burnt popcorn territory fast! a slow "stretch" I think is often the goal to optimize development of flavors through the malliard reactions, and that those reactions also are exothermic, meaning that they create heat, which makes it hard to maintain temp in this range.
ANyways, knowledge is key and that is the limit of my perceptions of bean roasting knowledge if you can call it that.
Is there a Charlie P version of TNCJOHB for bean roasting??
TD
I think that from what I've read, and I only have 5 roasts under my belt, so take it with a grain of salt, that you want even "drying" - rapid but not so rapid that that you get central bean "wetness". Then the phase between drying completion and 1C, I'm not sure what happens here - have read that sugar "carmelization" can happen if "prolonged" vs less carmelization if you proceed rapidly though which might preserve some natural sweetness in the cup? Finally, I think that depending on the bean, the period between 1C onset and end of 1C is when the last bits of moisture escape, explosively, and that the carmelization, malliard reactions, and maybe a "gelatinization" process similar to a cereal mash ? happens here and max flavors are developed? Not sure entirely, but seems that once you hit 2C you are headed for burnt popcorn territory fast! a slow "stretch" I think is often the goal to optimize development of flavors through the malliard reactions, and that those reactions also are exothermic, meaning that they create heat, which makes it hard to maintain temp in this range.
ANyways, knowledge is key and that is the limit of my perceptions of bean roasting knowledge if you can call it that.
Is there a Charlie P version of TNCJOHB for bean roasting??
TD
talldan - there is no way around pooching a few roasts in order to learn your machine. don't be afraid to make some extreme adjustments (one variable at a time) to learn what your roaster is capable of.
Several Behmor users also open the door strategically to slow the roast and make on-the-fly adjustments.
Tricky - HomeBarista.com has quite a few cult status coffee nuts. They are extreme and at times don't play nicely with newbies. That said, there is a wealth of knowledge there and quite a few folks using hottops, behmors and even small shop roasters. I used to frequent that site but I can't stand them anymore
Several Behmor users also open the door strategically to slow the roast and make on-the-fly adjustments.
Tricky - HomeBarista.com has quite a few cult status coffee nuts. They are extreme and at times don't play nicely with newbies. That said, there is a wealth of knowledge there and quite a few folks using hottops, behmors and even small shop roasters. I used to frequent that site but I can't stand them anymore
HarborTownBrewing
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TallDan, I've been using the 1600+ in manual the last couple months and it has definitely opened some new doors for me in terms of flavor and customization. I'll usually preheat at 100% for 2 mins, then load the beans and hit P5 for 100% heat. For a while I'd just ride 100% heat until 1c began and then I'd toggle between 0% and 50% heat, usually pulling through 1c and finishing with 100% heat.
But, this past week I played around with reducing heat during browning: did this on a brazil and it made a world of difference than the nearly exact roast I did with it a week prior.
Long story short, it takes some getting used to (in my case, about 3 or 4 lbs worth).
But, this past week I played around with reducing heat during browning: did this on a brazil and it made a world of difference than the nearly exact roast I did with it a week prior.
Long story short, it takes some getting used to (in my case, about 3 or 4 lbs worth).
How did you motorize your grinder? I bought one on Amazon, and has a five sided stem onto which a removable crank slips onto. Small battery operated screwdriver is a close, but not perfect fit. Never seen a five sided rod like that. It's rather tedious using the hand grinder, and takes quite a while as well.
edit -- Turns out a nut driver with a 1/4" hex will work. Will try with real beans tomorrow.
Edit 2- doesn't work, the driver spins and flattens out the ridges. Bought a chuck adapter for the hex mount screwdriver...
Roasted my first good ethiopian (the amazon.com stuff was sort of Meh). Wow! Its really good so far after just a one day rest. Had it this morning. Can't wait until tomorrow morning! There are some really amazing flavors that I don't recall ever tasting in "normal" coffee until now. Maybe the commercial stuff I've had is just too dark roast, or I'm messing up something on my roast that is throwing these unusual flavors. Not bad just something I've never tasted before. Could be my horrendous allergies/sinuses, and others that I've shared with have enjoyed. Its like there is a whole different level of flavor that I've been missing all these years. I'm not really very great at picking out flavor descriptors to explain, but its pretty amazing.
TD
TD
HarborTownBrewing
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Bigscience
Well-Known Member
I used a chuck adaptor with the driver. It doesn't fit exactly but it works for 20 seconds a day.
Skil 92170 1/4" Keyless Chuck
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKUUKA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I got the idea from when I needed to grind a bunch of pepper and used my Dewalt make the job easier.
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this makes me so happy to hear!
And THIS is the beauty of roasting your own
Maybe, but its like I'm not fully convinced. I've been living "in the cave" too long and have certain expectations of what coffee is "supposed" to taste like. Mine isn't like that anymore and I'm wondering if I "screwed it up" vs just grown accustomed to the stale stuff and don't know any better. Its sort of like watching black and white TV and seeing color for the first time, or maybe backwards, and I'm not sure which way is better, if that makes any sense. Alternately, like the movie the Matrix, when the realization hits that life is different than what you have been taught to perceive.
I will say that the coffee is good and in some cases very good. I don't think I am anywhere near the goal yet, sort of like the early Neo character in those Matrix movies before he learns...
TD
this is such a valid statement; especially for coffee.
people get used to a certain style/flavor and anything else tastes "wrong"
very dogmatic.
Bensiff
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Some flavors we should never get used to though...like the packages of Aramark Columbian coffee one of my jobs had. I always said it tasted like dirt and wouldn't drink it. I laughed when sometime last year the report came out stating that some coffees have been found to have all sorts of fillers in them. For Aramark that probably included the finest Columbian street dirt.
^its true - several commercial roasters sub in Robusta beans. These are higher on caffeine so be wary when you hear the verbiage "turbo blend, high octane" etc - they probably just have cheap robusta which they will charge you more for. Robusta also tastes bitter.
Chickory is another common filler. Some old laws pertaining to coffee regulate this. I believe new Orleans has a special "blend" that features this... surprise... You pay more for it haha
Chickory is another common filler. Some old laws pertaining to coffee regulate this. I believe new Orleans has a special "blend" that features this... surprise... You pay more for it haha
HarborTownBrewing
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If I remember right, you just began roasting a few weeks ago, so I'd say you are doing pretty well if you have a new roaster and are getting coffee you like already.
In a semi-related note: the first really good roast I did on my Behmor was a Guatemala SHB Santa Dominigo that came with it. I was blown away by it, and it was exponentially better than the stuff I had been roasting. It was about my 20th roast on the Behmor, so I was stoked...I finally had figured roasting on the Behmor out!
Wrong.
I screwed up my next batch of it - I knew it right away. But I had hope, so I decided to order 5 lbs of that Guat bean so I could learn how to roast in Manual on the Behmor (after all, I had first hand knowledge that the bean could taste amazing). I went through about 2.5 lbs of that bean and all I got was crappy flavored, grassy tasting coffee I couldn't replicate for the life of me.
Until this morning....I had been making big strides the last couple weeks with Brazil beans, so I decided to try this Guatemalan I had pretty much lost all hope of replicating (still had a couple pounds left over). The roast went exactly as planned; I tried it this morning and it is FANTASTIC. It's exactly what I wanted...it just took me a while to figure it out.
It's kind of frustrating, because with beer I was making reaaaaally good beer by my 3rd batch. Coffee is so much different, but I expected great results just as fast as when brewing beer.
^^ agree. With beer brewing there are plenty of books and websites filled with information. Seems more mysterious with coffee as far as "how-to", but more importantly the reasons behind doing what you're doing with your roaster to roast the beans, and what your goal is if you even have a handle on that yet. Plus the individual variation in roasters, line voltage, beans, and so forth. I'm due for another roast today and get to continue learning. I think I'm supposed to do some cleaning after this next roast (or maybe before) - have to read the manual, since I stopped at that point. So far its a fun adventure, and so far I am enjoying the coffee I'm getting out of my roaster. Some minor complaints on taste here and there. each roast is kind of like eating a bag of jelly-belly jellybeans for with a mixed variety of jelly beans and grabbing a handful and eating them. Each handful (roast) has been a little different. Lots going on, but not all the flavor combos are complimentary, but its still pretty good being coffee (candy) and all. Its somewhat difficult to describe what I'm tasting.
I think my Guatemala peaberry roast #2 was pretty dang good. Better on day 5 than on day 3 for sure. I think I'm going to pre-heat even further this time for faster drying (but not as high as the last ethiopian roast because the peaberries are smaller and I suspect will dry faster). Thought about getting out my stethescope to listen for the 1C, but it'd probably not handle the high temp of the roaster very well. Need to take a close look at my first and second roasts of this one to see what I'm going to change this time, and what temp and time I hit 1C the last two times.
Also, when I bothered to measure, my charge has been 227g and my post-roast mass had dropped to about 192. That seem about right? 15% loss in mass? The volume increase is rather impressive, nearly doubled. Maybe I'm recalling those stats from a different bean (not the peaberry), not sure without consulting my notes. This time, i'll be sure to record.
TD
I think my Guatemala peaberry roast #2 was pretty dang good. Better on day 5 than on day 3 for sure. I think I'm going to pre-heat even further this time for faster drying (but not as high as the last ethiopian roast because the peaberries are smaller and I suspect will dry faster). Thought about getting out my stethescope to listen for the 1C, but it'd probably not handle the high temp of the roaster very well. Need to take a close look at my first and second roasts of this one to see what I'm going to change this time, and what temp and time I hit 1C the last two times.
Also, when I bothered to measure, my charge has been 227g and my post-roast mass had dropped to about 192. That seem about right? 15% loss in mass? The volume increase is rather impressive, nearly doubled. Maybe I'm recalling those stats from a different bean (not the peaberry), not sure without consulting my notes. This time, i'll be sure to record.
TD
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what may be "normal", although I don't know that there is a norm, but I have been measuring between 13.1% - 17.25% loss since I started tracking my pre/post weights a couple weeks ago.
HarborTownBrewing
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Advice needed. I'm ordering my grinder tomorrow, and I've got it narrowed down to these two: Baratza Encore for $129, or Breville Smart Grind refurb for $116 (normally 200)
Any suggestions?
I'm strictly into french press and chemex, and don't see myself doing espresso in the near future
Any suggestions?
I'm strictly into french press and chemex, and don't see myself doing espresso in the near future
Bensiff
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I have no experience with either. However do have a Baratza Vario. It is a work horse and customer service is superb.
@harbortownbrewing
I've heard great things about the Breville smart grinder. I'd def recommend
I had a Baratza Preciso for a while and it had the best press pot grind of all the grinders I've owned - well close anyways
Cool thing with the Preciso, you can add an Esato attachment later. This device allows the gridner to dose by weight. So just set the grinder for however grams you want. This is extremely efficient and beneficial for making killer coffee
I've heard great things about the Breville smart grinder. I'd def recommend
I had a Baratza Preciso for a while and it had the best press pot grind of all the grinders I've owned - well close anyways
Cool thing with the Preciso, you can add an Esato attachment later. This device allows the gridner to dose by weight. So just set the grinder for however grams you want. This is extremely efficient and beneficial for making killer coffee
I'll try to post a pic later but I'm melting the yellow top of my popper all out of shape. I do love the coffee though. I imagine a replacement top might take some searching.
Ditto here. As a follow up, I asked the customer service at baratza about the loose hopper (need to hold it entire grind duration to prevent from turning and disengage the safety stopping the grinder) they are sending gratis replacement plus a gratis burr removal tool.
TD.
^heck yeah bro. baratza always exceeds expectations.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm leaning toward the Baratza Encore, because it's smaller and will be easier for me to store in the cabinets when I'm not using it. I'm also a little nervous about the Smart Grinder having an LCD screen: how long will it last? I trust the grinder will have a long life, but I don't know that I can expect the screen to last as long.
Roasted up a Burundi and tried it this morning. Yummmmmm. So chocolaty and rich. Little bit of caramel. I've got the shakes
Roasted up a Burundi and tried it this morning. Yummmmmm. So chocolaty and rich. Little bit of caramel. I've got the shakes
Bensiff
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Grinders are pretty simple, you don't need any special technology. Pay for quality burrs, a reliable motor, and consistent gap settings. All an lcd screen means is that money didn't go to the important things, but it will attract the guy with a ton of money and no knowledge at Williams Sonoma with it's pretty display. Squirrel.
So I brewed my latest Peaberry roast coffee this morning.
Yuck!
Hard to describe. Reminds me of Dunkin' Donuts. Far different from past roasts.
Hit it hard with the charge temp and then dropped the power through 1C for a fairly long stretch, and dumped shy of onset of 2C. 10 minutes total. I think was too short.
Tonight I tried another roast, slightly different. Charge temp about 10 degrees less (410) and hit it hard (100% power) until 1C then dropped to 50% and turned fan to 100% and then shortly after dropped power even further (30%) and left it there until onset of 2C.
At first I wasn't sure it was 2C, but when it started it was louder and more vigorous than 1C! sort of anyway. the snaps were not as "loud" but more "distinct", if that makes any sense and sounded like a muffled popcorn being popped. Also were MUCH more rapid compared to 1C. I let it run a good 30 seconds and it showed no letting up before ejecting. The beans look yummy and smell good too. I think I may have roasted previous beans too short.. time will tell. Overall an extra 90 seconds to this roast compared to the last. will see which I prefer.
TD
Yuck!
Hard to describe. Reminds me of Dunkin' Donuts. Far different from past roasts.
Hit it hard with the charge temp and then dropped the power through 1C for a fairly long stretch, and dumped shy of onset of 2C. 10 minutes total. I think was too short.
Tonight I tried another roast, slightly different. Charge temp about 10 degrees less (410) and hit it hard (100% power) until 1C then dropped to 50% and turned fan to 100% and then shortly after dropped power even further (30%) and left it there until onset of 2C.
At first I wasn't sure it was 2C, but when it started it was louder and more vigorous than 1C! sort of anyway. the snaps were not as "loud" but more "distinct", if that makes any sense and sounded like a muffled popcorn being popped. Also were MUCH more rapid compared to 1C. I let it run a good 30 seconds and it showed no letting up before ejecting. The beans look yummy and smell good too. I think I may have roasted previous beans too short.. time will tell. Overall an extra 90 seconds to this roast compared to the last. will see which I prefer.
TD
^what didn't you like about the first roast? I'm not familiar DD coffee although I hear some folks like it.
Was it too acidic/sour? Charred?
Was it too acidic/sour? Charred?
The first roast just tasted... Bad. Hard to describe. Sour might be a word to describe, but not really sour like sour beer. There was a flavor reminiscent of DD coffee, which is the flavor in the DD stuff that I hate. Dirty sock like it reminds me of.
So the new roast, yeah, I brewed a pot in the morning, I think is pretty tasty. Getting some cocoa, and also a bit of acidity still. I think will improve with a little rest. I saved that profile on the chance that it turned out great. Will be roasting some more tonight and tomorrow in prep for a trip.
I wonder with the peaberries if I should go slower through the drying phase since they are rounder, but they are also smaller.
Edit
I think I figured out the ugly tasting bean problem. I think I ejected too soon. Was reading a book about coffee roasting and premature ejection (couldn't resist) before beans hit 380 will be "bad". However, I forgot to record the eject temp on the very last roast however. Also I think that I was having a hard time hearing the cracks that time too.
So the new roast, yeah, I brewed a pot in the morning, I think is pretty tasty. Getting some cocoa, and also a bit of acidity still. I think will improve with a little rest. I saved that profile on the chance that it turned out great. Will be roasting some more tonight and tomorrow in prep for a trip.
I wonder with the peaberries if I should go slower through the drying phase since they are rounder, but they are also smaller.
Edit
I think I figured out the ugly tasting bean problem. I think I ejected too soon. Was reading a book about coffee roasting and premature ejection (couldn't resist) before beans hit 380 will be "bad". However, I forgot to record the eject temp on the very last roast however. Also I think that I was having a hard time hearing the cracks that time too.
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