☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

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zpack said:
I use a popcorn popper and roasted how I have for all of my other (not very many) batches. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking so I will give hopefully enough or more than enough to answer your question. Preheated popper, roasted until first crack and pulled it about 30 seconds into first crack maybe a little more. I cool it quickly using a colander and a fan. I let it off gas for 24-36 hours before grinding in my burr grinder and making a cup of pour over with my v-60.

Believe me I'm here to learn and to improve so I am hoping to get some pointers on how to roast this to bring out the flavors.
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I consider myself new as well. I've only been roasting since October and I started on a popcorn popper as well. I did about 10 batches before jumping to a Behmor.
That being said, I still have a lot to learn as well so I'm adding a question for the more experienced roasters to answer:
Is 30-seconds INTO first crack long enough to ensure that the coffee wasn't under-developed? I've pulled the Ethiopian (forget which one that the group buy was) at 1:30 after 1st crack started which is still a pretty light roast, but nothing as early as 30 seconds into first crack.
 
@Kealia...was that the Ethiopia Banko? Very blueberryish!! I'm sure others on here will agree with that being able to be done at 30 seconds into 1st crack, but that also will depend on what your temperature profile was coming up to it....I would say a nice rate of rise of 20 to 25 degrees a minute during development phase........with a good 3 to 4 minutes for the beans to go from green to yellow and an additional 3 1/2 to 4 minutes for the beans to go from yellow to brown, where at a point they start to crack...so you are looking at an eight+ minute batch overall....

@Inkleg....Jammin uses a tj-066 which I think is a pre mill city roaster....it's definitely a sweet rig and I do pretty bad at hiding my envy!!! Very capable roaster, and @jammin at the controls, judging by some of his graphs that he has shared, has definitely got a science down on it's operation....

@zpack....I am going out on a limb here, but I would definitely recommend slowing your roast down....even doing small batches that fast, will tend to just roast the outer shell of the coffee bean while leaving the center very raw like....which will most certainly produce an undesirable flavor on the cup....
 
I like super light roasts and am starting to crave one, tell you the truth, with all this talk. As a new roaster, they would frustrate me, why does this taste so acidic? Moms trader joe friend wont drink it. Man would love a cup of it tomorrow. Right into first crack is light and will have the consistency of tea. Also it can be acidic. Happy cups.
 
Not for nothing....I have been eyeballing the bc 2 pretty dang hard!!! It is near impossible to keep a constant roast going on in my frankenroaster!! I'm fairly certain that many of you out there have weighed the amount of time spent on the amount of product produced, and have thought of ways to maximize "dead" times...Even though I can do 1 lb size batches, it does take more time to complete them. It does reach the upper limit of my particular roaster. Most of us have taken our roast machines to their limits with the batch size...if you haven't....wait....it's coming!!! LoL!!! My turn around times are, in my opinion...dreadful...just because of the handling of the completed roast, the cool down phase of the heat gun (so I don't turn it into a molten mess, and it also allows the bread machines motor to cool off some), then the repeat process for charging the roaster to temp before the next drop...the only way I see to maximize any more is to get a more capable roaster. I could do better than I am now with a BC 1, but find that my roaster will do the same size batches, just not as efficiently in the turn around time capabilities. I have ruint (southern slang for past tense of being ruined) many peoples taste for store bought coffee, and that number is getting larger....quite a few of them are wanting to buy coffee from me, but I'm actually hesitant because my production rate probably won't match the demand...I'm willing to bet that a portion of you all, have looked into the face of that as well......oh the possibilities....
 
Kealia said:
Is 30-seconds INTO first crack long enough to ensure that the coffee wasn't under-developed? I've pulled the Ethiopian (forget which one that the group buy was) at 1:30 after 1st crack started which is still a pretty light roast, but nothing as early as 30 seconds into first crack.
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Something to consider is the bean's development up to first crack, rather than simply how far you take it into 1st crack.

Coffee is kind of like a steak: you can sear the outside of the steak or coffee bean with a lot of heat and it might LOOK done on the outside, but it can still very much be rare inside (or green/unroasted in the case of coffee). While I like my steak medium rare, with a coffee bean you should be looking for something that's well done and cooked nice and evenly...more like a hamburger or a chicken breast.

/\ /\ /\ That right there is why I think the geisha didn't turn out. An over developed shell with a severely under developed inner bean.

Regarding 1st Crack though, I personally measure my the length of first crack from start to finish, and I measure the time that passes from once 1st crack has ended until when I drop the roast. The reason I time it from the end of 1C vs. the start is that some coffees will be in 1st crack for 40 seconds, while others might be 1.5-1.75 mins. I mark the end of 1C similar to popcorn...once it's only popping every 2 -3 seconds, I'm calling it as being complete.

There was a lot of talk of food in that post. Guess I'm hungry.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
Coffee is kind of like a steak: you can sear the outside of the steak or coffee bean with a lot of heat and it might LOOK done on the outside, but it can still very much be rare inside (or green/unroasted in the case of coffee). While I like my steak medium rare, with a coffee bean you should be looking for something that's well done and cooked nice and evenly...more like a hamburger or a chicken breast.
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this was one of the first things i read when i was learning to roast. i'll never forget someone referring to it as "the dreaded rare bean" - just like your steak analogy. Popcorn poppers are notorious for this since they roast so fast. Finish times under 5 minutes are normal.

The next tier of home roasting equipment(behmor, hottop etc) isn't nearly as susceptible to this(more "time under the curve"). I was recently reading some roasting notes @ the Crown Jewel from Jen Apodaca that talked about the merits of having a lighter Agtron color of the ground coffee than the roast color.

https://royalcoffee.com/products/cj1173/
"One way folks can add a more complex flavor profile to a coffee is by roasting in a manner that provides a large difference between the external and internal color. In this case, the eight point difference, produced a flavor profile that had the floral acidity of a light roast with the weighty undertones of a darker roast."

I have been experimenting with this a little lately and it's not for every bean but I've had some good results. I think you can get there with a fast roast & not letting up on the heat as much going into/through 1C. This maintains a higher ET during development which I think is key achieving these type of roasts.
 
jammin said:
https://royalcoffee.com/products/cj1173/
"One way folks can add a more complex flavor profile to a coffee is by roasting in a manner that provides a large difference between the external and internal color. In this case, the eight point difference, produced a flavor profile that had the floral acidity of a light roast with the weighty undertones of a darker roast."

I have been experimenting with this a little lately and it's not for every bean but I've had some good results. I think you can get there with a fast roast & not letting up on the heat as much going into/through 1C. This maintains a higher ET during development which I think is key achieving these type of roasts.
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Interesting...so, have you found more success with this method with any particular beans? Something like a Guatemalan, perhaps?
 
^I wouln't even know which side is the business end lol :D

HarborTownBrewing said:
Interesting...so, have you found more success with this method with any particular beans? Something like a Guatemalan, perhaps?
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Although a Guat could handle it due to it's density, I'm not sure on average it would be an ideal candidate. If you have one that has above average acidity and leans towards the fruity side & I'd say go for it!
I've had good luck with Kenyan's (not PB varietal) doing this as the deeply caramelized sugars pair reeeaally well with punctuated acidity & fruity characteristics. It's no secret that Kenyans hold up well to dark roasts, perhaps this is in part why.

I think roasting coffee may be like golf.. one of those things you can practice & enjoy and know that you'll probably never scratch the surface of perfection. It can frustrate the hell out of you at times but all it's takes is that one shot (or this case roast) to keep you coming back.
 
Yeah every so often I come across something that completely shakes up what I had come to know and believe.

This, for instance: https://royalcoffee.com/the-relatio...tivity-and-the-maillard-reaction-in-roasting/

All this time I had thought that by extending the Maillard reaction part of the roast I was imparting sweetness. This states the opposite - that a short Maillard increases sweetness but cuts down on body, whereas a lengthened Maillard reaction time reduces sweetness/acidity but increases viscosity.

I've settled into using two or three roast profiles when I roast. After New Years, once things settle down, I'm going to try some new techniques. I've discovered a lot lately, and it's a shame not to try to discover some new things. I've gotten to comfortable lately.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
Something to consider is the bean's development up to first crack, rather than simply how far you take it into 1st crack.

Coffee is kind of like a steak: you can sear the outside of the steak or coffee bean with a lot of heat and it might LOOK done on the outside, but it can still very much be rare inside (or green/unroasted in the case of coffee). While I like my steak medium rare, with a coffee bean you should be looking for something that's well done and cooked nice and evenly...more like a hamburger or a chicken breast.

/\ /\ /\ That right there is why I think the geisha didn't turn out. An over developed shell with a severely under developed inner .
Click to expand...

+1, 1c is a part of the curve/process that occurs, as opposed to a magical moment.

This happened to me my last roast on a cheaper etiopian yirgacheffe. That being said Jammin brings up a good point about this perhaps being a desirable quality. Since I roast full power from beginning to finish some beans will show this characteristic. I don't think this would be a good process for a Guatemalan as much as it would be for an Ethiopian, but I could be totally wrong to. With Brazilian and Guatemalan I think it's better to have a more even roast and to have a better drying phase. This can be easily seen by the mottling on the bean with too fast a roast.
 
The dog is wondering why we need to wait to open this until Christmas. At least I can get a sneak peek when I go and take the roasted coffee. I won’t be letting that sit any longer.

It’s my Technivorm KB741

IMG_0754.jpg
 
The other nice thing is, since you know what's in that box and when you can open it, you can roast accordingly in preparation of opening and using it.

I have a few coffee things on my wishlist for Christmas so I'm going to blindly roast a few different coffees to be ready for Xmas morning...juuuuust in case I get anything I wanted. And if I don't get anything, well, that'd be a bummer.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
The other nice thing is, since you know what's in that box and when you can open it, you can roast accordingly in preparation of opening and using it.

I have a few coffee things on my wishlist for Christmas so I'm going to blindly roast a few different coffees to be ready for Xmas morning...juuuuust in case I get anything I wanted. And if I don't get anything, well, that'd be a bummer.
Click to expand...

Yes! And in preparation today, I did something crazy. I took a pound of Guatemala Finca Santa Felisa Red Typica Honey and hit 1, P3, C, Start. Once fc came, I hit P3, C, +++. All automatic. It produced a very nice roast. Perfect for the bean, right around a Full City +. A bean that anyone can enjoy as a regular old cup of coffee.
 
Sharing a bit of information I saw posted by Joe Behm regarding the Behmor 1600+ and timing.
Apparently, if you use the "C" button instead of the "+" to add time, you can do that indefinitely and not run out of time.

This would have come in handy recently when I ran tight/out of time on a Guatamalan that took FOREVER to roast.
Just sharing in case there is somebody else that didn;t know this, too.
 
^^same here, i noticed the Guatemalan took longer to roast and in general were difficult/humbling to roast. Every bean is different ehh. Happy cups
 
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These beans arrived tonight! I can’t wait to roast some soon and get a feel for what the wife and I really like. Then it will be onto ordering larger quantities.

Oh and I ordered this tea of theirs too. My 5 & 7 year old girls enjoyed eating it. I made some of the tea tonight for myself. It was good but very mild in flavor.
 
I was an amateur tea snob before I starting drinking coffee. I had a few different brewing gadgets, measured water temps, and bought really good loose leaf. Now whenever I try tea again it just doesn't do anything for me; it's weak and boring. I love the body and jolt of coffee.
 
Roasting for Christmas right now. It takes me approx17 min per pound start to finish with hgbm. No wait time its cold out and blower after each pound cools bm enough. No fear on hg as I figure I will cross that bridge when time comes. Second and third roasts do go quicker with some charging. Will maybe slow through drying and yellowing.
 
Three pounds done and 4th in. Tasted this costa rican and its unreal. On Black Friday I bought the most expensive coffees on bodhileaf. This week they had a decent Panamanian on sale that was only 4 a pound. Since I didn't jump on it now I've got to give everybody the good stuff, which is the way it should be anyways, right! Can go as fast as 15 minutes per pound but taking my time it's about 20 minutes a pound.

Update, done with all 5 pounds and cleaned up, i will update on some roast notes later.

20171216_095324.jpg
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Just curious if any of you have tried the Prismo on the Aeropress? Got mine a couple days ago and just this morning got a chance to use it. I did 3 shots...:eek:...2 of them a little on the sour side, which I'm blaming on a lighter than optimal roast level, at least for doing espresso, which led me to go with a Costa Rican bean I brought right up to 2nd crack and then dropped. More prominent roast flavor on that one. None of them produced a crema that was appreciable...I ground one on setting 2 on my encore...which you have to put some force down on the plunger when doing the extraction, so the next 1 I did at setting 3...lighter pressure needed...but that didn't give me any better results, so I went back to setting 2 for the 3rd attempt. The body of those shots seemed to be where an espresso should be. I didn't have muddy or grainy characteristics...just the 1st 2 shots a little on the sour side, and the 3rd shot was the best out of them but lacked any crema......anyone have any insights they could share....other than to get a real espresso machine!!!:D That will be a couple years from now, unless I win the lottery!!!
 
Apple, nice work getting through 5 pounds today. 4 pounds is my self imposed limit on the behmor, which for me is about 6 hours.
 
Inkleg said:
You sure that's not an undeveloped bean? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Hold on, let me crunch on it to see.

On a side note, this reminds me of cracking into a steel nut when eating a Carolina burger. Must have fallen off into the chili. Luckily, my tooth didn’t actually crack and I caught it before swallowing it.
 
Sweet Maria's order landed. First pic will be what composes my "Christmas blend" that will be gifts for friends, and the Ethiopian I'm excited to try. I may gift some of that as well
20171216_144342.jpg
20171216_144356.jpg
 
@BrewinHooligan

Here is the Sidama Station espresso roast. It will be getting brewed as espresso but I can do an Aeropress or V60 if you want any specific feedback.

LT9vCQ8.png



I order 1lb of the latest Kenyan SM's posted and here is my stab @ it for drip. I tried my best not to be dogmatic and follow my olfactory senses here. Really looking forward to try both of these.

LKtxvqd.png
 
@jammin, I haven't been able to justify a decent espresso machine to my wife so I am stuck with wither the Aeropress or V60 prep. If you can provide feedback for those that would be awesome. I appreciate the roast profile. That roasted faster than I have been so I will be either decreasing batch size or turning up the heat, or both to hit those targets.
 
jammin said:
How many grams of water:tea are you using? Any tips on making a good cup?
Click to expand...

I only made one cup so far and just placed some in the steeper without any measurements. I will for sure take notes the next time I make some. Life’s been so busy lately, but maybe tomorrow night I’ll make a cup and take notes. Then respond back after a few cups hopefully later this week at different ratios.
 
Ruint said:
Just curious if any of you have tried the Prismo on the Aeropress? Got mine a couple days ago and just this morning got a chance to use it. I did 3 shots...:eek:...2 of them a little on the sour side, which I'm blaming on a lighter than optimal roast level, at least for doing espresso, which led me to go with a Costa Rican bean I brought right up to 2nd crack and then dropped. More prominent roast flavor on that one. None of them produced a crema that was appreciable...I ground one on setting 2 on my encore...which you have to put some force down on the plunger when doing the extraction, so the next 1 I did at setting 3...lighter pressure needed...but that didn't give me any better results, so I went back to setting 2 for the 3rd attempt. The body of those shots seemed to be where an espresso should be. I didn't have muddy or grainy characteristics...just the 1st 2 shots a little on the sour side, and the 3rd shot was the best out of them but lacked any crema......anyone have any insights they could share....other than to get a real espresso machine!!!:D That will be a couple years from now, unless I win the lottery!!!
Click to expand...
My delonghi i just saw was 74 at bestbuy and iirc as low as 60 on amazon. Take the pressurized filter off and it pulls shots, which I canlive with, ymmv. I have posted tons of pics on this thread. Plenty of crema. I drink iced esspresso drinks and wife likes lattes. Will be nailing them tomorrow morning, usually 2 or 3 double shot drinks.

Has me wondering if a lets say 300 dollar type machine (still pressure porta filter) is any better. Assume would use it no pressure filter too?


@jammin so interesting you hit first crack that quick and extended 3 min. The other is fairly well extended too and a nice sounding drip profile. Could you describe how you adjust heat to do that? Since i fill the single hopper i am stuck with drip roast for esspresso too. I think the darker roasts are sweeter, but sadly cant say for sure.
 
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@applescrap I charge the roaster @ min heat/fan. after 1 minute heat goes up, fan goes to medium. 1C incoming: heat goes back to min, fan goes towards high.

that's the frame to most of my roasts. small tweaks to this can make noticeable changes in the cup.

lately ive been trying my best to use my olfactory senses to end the roast. hopefully 2018 will be the breakout year to get over the hump
 
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going back to the nose knows @jammin ? How do you escape the overwhelming smokiness (acrid) to pull something out that is usable? I suppose that would be a benefit of exhausting the smoke outside, but is there still enough aroma left on the beans themselves? Kinda like what you smell in the storage bags after the roast...just doesn't seem like you would be able to separate it that much while the roast is underway...
 
@BrewinHooligan - I pulled 2 shots of the SS this morning. It’s a pretty light for an espresso roast but the shots are fantastic! Flavors are a bit hazy bc it’s so fresh but the berries are def there with nice acidity. The body is there too! Speaking of espresso machines - I have a new one on the the way. ECM Synchronika. Can’t wait to get it set up. It will be plumbed in/out and can do line pressure preinfusion.

@Ruint - the trier on my TJ-066 is about 3x as big as the little one on my old Quest M3. While the M3’s was serviceable, this larger trier has made sensory feedback of the roast much easier. You get a heaping tablespoon of beans or so to smell & take a closer look at. I think you’d be surprised at the clarity of the aroma in this manner. I also have a light focused near there so I can get a really good look at the beam development. It helps to see the color & texture. Some “profressional” roasters will use a previous batch they liked or a color swatch (similar to what you’d see in the paint section) to reference roast color
 
Very Nice @Jamming!!! Not having a "real" roaster with a trier I am not fancy to that yet!!! I definitely appreciate all the info you've shared...and anxiously await your next bean selection!!!:D Especially being I roasted the last bit of that Banko yesterday after roasting something to try for an espresso with the Prismo/Aeropress.
 

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