No thank you, early on going for a light roast I had a batch that curdled milk, yes I still enjoy a little H&H In my coffee, The H&H was fresh and I bought more and the same.
I've gotten better, so much to learn.
☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting
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No thank you, early on going for a light roast I had a batch that curdled milk, yes I still enjoy a little H&H In my coffee, The H&H was fresh and I bought more and the same.
I've gotten better, so much to learn.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Happily roasted a pound of nicaragua regalo de dios this morning. 1c. at 9 min 25 sec then dropped heat to 3 of 6 bars for a minute, then 2 bars, then one bar finnishing at 11 minutes 30 seconds. Right at start of second crack, maybe a little in. Kept fan on high the whole way I might change that.
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Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Well it happened exactly as I thought. I am completely addicted to home roasting. After only roasting an 8oz batch and a 1lb batch in my whirlypop I am hooked! I am already planning out how much to roast for xmas gifts.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
That's great to hear, you'll need to keep us updated!
I'm feeling like I've got the Fara Sala down. I've made it very successfully in a chemex and v60, tasting fairly different but very good.
OP
OP
Now you're doing the java jive.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP6IUqrFHjw[/ame]
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yep that's the one. It's a little dull the first 3 days but starts really developing around day 5
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
So after doing a little more research I have determined that the first two roasts I did were city roasts. I roasted until first crack was finished and then dumped the beans. I typically like my coffee a bit darker so I think for my next roast I will go until the beginning of second crack.
I am drinking my second batch right now and if I remember right it is a Costa Rican coffee. I am no expert at describing flavors but I definitely detect a rounded chocolate flavor. Seems very balanced with the slight acidity.
I realize this is a subjective question and dependent on the type of bean but what roast level do you guys typically roast to that brings out the most flavor in your cup?
I am drinking my second batch right now and if I remember right it is a Costa Rican coffee. I am no expert at describing flavors but I definitely detect a rounded chocolate flavor. Seems very balanced with the slight acidity.
I realize this is a subjective question and dependent on the type of bean but what roast level do you guys typically roast to that brings out the most flavor in your cup?
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
These are the questions that get roasters into fights. Come on, man!
I drop my roasts 15-20 seconds after 1C ends, which gives it a lot more "origin" flavor.
The lighter the roast, the more origin flavor you'll taste. The darker the roast, the more "roast" flavor you'll taste. Big companies (which don't need to be named) tend to buy whatever beans from whatever farm and roast them dark dark dark. This is advantageous because it's roasted so far that it no longer has an origin flavor, but has a roast flavor - meaning, they always have consistent results regardless of where it comes from.
Personally, I see no reason to paying $6.50+++ /lb and roasting it into 2C. I know of people that buy Ethiopian and Kenyan beans and roast the crap out of them, completely destroying all the delicate flavors.
If you like dark roasts, stick with the Costa Ricas, Brazil, Columbia, etc. They are cheaper and have more body.
So that's my version.
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the informative response HarborTown. I am very new to (tasty) coffee in general so I guess I am still learning what kind of roasts I like. I would hate to ruin a good bean by roasting it too far. I do like a french roast occasionally but tend to drink medium to light roasts.
I have a solid noob question. When you say you wait x amount of time after 1C ends is there a very definitive moment when you know it has ended? For example; you think that 1C has ended so you start timing your 15-20 seconds but then you hear a few more crack/pop sounds, would you restart your timing?
I have a solid noob question. When you say you wait x amount of time after 1C ends is there a very definitive moment when you know it has ended? For example; you think that 1C has ended so you start timing your 15-20 seconds but then you hear a few more crack/pop sounds, would you restart your timing?
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
You'll get a feel for it after you've roasted a bit, but I could 1C ending at the time where the cracking becomes inconsistent and there are gaps of 2+ seconds between pops. I'll still catch a stray pop here and there but I don't count that as still being in 1C because there might be 6 second gaps between those random cracks.
A lot of coffees do better at different roast levels, too. Brazilian beans don't really do anything special at a real light roast (except for some exceptional beans) and are generally better darker. Ethiopians really shine as a light roast and lose all their brilliant fruit flavor when they are roasted darker.
Different strokes for different folks. And brewing methods. When I'm roasting for my parents, who are going to run the coffee through their cheap drip machine, I usually give them something a little fuller in flavor like a darker roasted Columbian because their machine just can't pick up fruit flavors of a lighter roasted East African coffee.
The cool thing about roasting your own coffee is you can roast it how you like it. Try some coffee light roasted and try some dark roasted, if you give it enough time you will naturally move to a roast style you like.
I actually like my coffee how you describe your second roast and look at the descriptions of the coffee that say those flavors come out in darker roasts. Sweet maria's also has roast recommendation so that also gives a good clue on how dark you can roast it and still get unique flavors.
Everybody has different tastes so do some experimenting and roast to how you like it.
There are two ways to look at this:
1.) George Howell, a very famous coffee roaster believes green coffee has maximum potential/terroir & that roasting only takes away from it. Naturally, he roasts light as possible. This is very common with third wave, West Coast roasters. The resulting coffee is tends to be very acidic & bright but also loaded with origin flavor.
2.). David Schomer of Vivace is a famous espresso roaster & creator of his Dolce blend. This style in my mind shapes the coffee to let the roast do the talking. Most general coffee drinkers prefer this style of roast to their own taste; be it medium or dark roast etc.
Ultimately it's about what you like best. To help discover this it is best to start ultra light & move up. Once your pallet gets better & you become more skilled with your roaster you can manipulate other nuances of the roast such as the ramp to 1C (to develop more savory flavors etc) or extend the spent during 1C (attenuate acidity etc).
This is why professional roasters have 4-5 barrel sample roasters. They can conduct several roasts at the same time & dump the coffee in say 30 second intervals. They can then cup all these roasts and decide what they like best in one fell swoop.
As home roasters we don't have this luxury due to limited quantity of a bean & a sample size roast is often a full a batch for most of us. Roasting is an art form & you will get better in time. Roast often & don't be afraid to try different time/temp combos. Keeping your charge size the same roast to roast will expedite your learning curve; I always weigh my beans to gram for every roast.
Personally, I roast very light & dump in the middle of 1C nearly every time. I hardly ever finish first crack. I prefer to manipulate my roast in the aforementioned prescribed fashions to my tastes. I feel that this is a good balance of preserving terroir & finding a level of roast that suits my pallette
I once got some ethiopian coffee that had territory, smelled like a dirty cat box. Made me wondered if a lion used the scrub or drying rack as a marking post. Safe to say I did not get that coffee from sweet maria's.
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Wow! All good info guys thanks for helping me along. I will let you know how my next roast goes. It's strange to start a hobby that actually saves money.
Did you tell the site you got the cat pee coffee from that it smelled like cat pee? I can't even imagine what that would smell like while roasting it.
Did you tell the site you got the cat pee coffee from that it smelled like cat pee? I can't even imagine what that would smell like while roasting it.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Is this post about home roasting or homebrewing? Substitute Foldgers for Budweiser, Whirly Pop for Mr. Beer, etc, and you could have almost the same arguments/discussions about it.
Even including the cat pee!
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Is this post about home roasting or homebrewing? Substitute Foldgers for Budweiser, Whirly Pop for Mr. Beer, etc, and you could have almost the same arguments/discussions about it.
Even including the cat pee!
Fair point. In my current predicament people expect free beer when they come to my house so I am always trying to keep up with demand by brewing more beer thus costing me more money even though I am drinking the same amount or less amount of beer than before. I'm definitely not complaining, it just means people like my beer lol
I'm not sure how this coffee roasting will shake out but at least this far in, 1.5 lbs in, I have saved money, ha! But who really does a hobby to save money or spend money? It's all about supplying yourself with high quality beverages that you created and sharing it with people.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I use the "save money" aspect to convince my wife to permit me to buy coffee gadgets. She's super cheap, which sometimes sucks, but it's good in the long haul. But having a hobby like coffee roasting that genuinely saves coffee certainly helps.
Now, if only I could figure out a way to convince her that buying guitar gear saves money.....
Now, if only I could figure out a way to convince her that buying guitar gear saves money.....
I did not contact the company, the coffee was like $3 dollars a pounds so I figure I got what I deserved. I may be a glutton for punishment as I did drink the coffee and have bought more coffee from them(not that one though).
My funniest coffee experience was seeing my wife's face when I told her "remember the coffee you made from that pouch with the funny looking cat on it(Kopi Luwak), it was crapped out of a raccoon". Her face turned white and she almost got sick.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Hey i have had some funky scents. Figured that was normal. What should the green beans smell like? Really hoping i am not drinking cat wizz
Washed coffee smells like beans or slit peas maybe a bit more grassy. Sumatra coffee can be quite funky, decaying leaves maybe. Dry processed coffee can be funky too, but with an over ripe fruit smell.
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Woah... should I be washing by green coffee beans before roasting them? Never occured to me
Aristotelian
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No! "Washed" refers to a process for curing green beans. Some green beans are soaked and fermented before being dried. This is supposed to lead to a smoother taste but less body. When you purchase green beans they should be referred to as washed or natural/dry processed but either way all you have to do is roast them.
Limbrizik
Well-Known Member
Ha! Okay, thanks for the clarification. I'm still working on my coffee roasting lingo.
Tonight's roasting trio
applescrap
Be the ball!
Those look nice. I am excited to try more Ethiopian coffee.Realized we were out so went out and roasted. F..in rocky mtn cold tonight. Barefoot and in boxers of course. 1030 first crack and 1230 removal. I tried to go hot till 1c. but not really, then backed to 3 bars power at 1c. then one bar then took lid off and tried to milk as much as i could out of the roast like a weird coffee tantric experience. I've been doing a lot of reading about fluid bed air roasting and Mike sivetz. My friend has been trying to buy good coffee from the store but it usually has very off tar like flavors. When i look at the chaff i wonder, where did all of that go in my whirly pop. With air the chaff is tan and not burnt. Don't know why I'm giving you pictures of with and without Flash of the roast.
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I for one am really enjoying your step by step journey! 1 quick question so far, how glad are you that got an adjustable heat gun?
applescrap
Be the ball!
^^so so very glad, thanks for recommending that. Appreciate your appreciating too. The agility it provides is beyond my knowledge base. It can do things I am not aware of I'm sure. At first I thought you can adjust the heat by moving the gun up or down but that isn't accurate or feasible. With a 2 button switch hi and low, I think there is some play, but there is no mistaking the joy and agility of six heat settings and 2 fan settings. Also taking the lid off can impart a third heat adjustment I think. These heat guns stink when new just fyi for everyone but wagner from home depot much less. Price difference was 18$. Hi/lo was 22 and adjustable was 40. So glad I picked the right one.
I have videos but don't know how to upload?
I have videos but don't know how to upload?
OP
OP
You need to upload to youtube (you'll need an acct), then provide a link to that video as follows:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7760631&postcount=17452
Terrible at planning my roasts ahead and they never get the rest they should.
Just used the last of my roasted coffee this morning, so I'm roasting some to be used starting tomorrow!
Just used the last of my roasted coffee this morning, so I'm roasting some to be used starting tomorrow!
Busted out the Lido 1 this weekend for a mug & had forgotten how good the grind quality is. I'm so used to my Baratza Vario with Ditting machined SS 54mm flat burrs that id nearly forgot how good these old burr sets are. Spoiler Alert: they're better than mostly anything else currently available on the market.
Anyhow - the LIDO 1 is no longer in production & has been surpassed by at least 2 newer generations. The LIDO 1 however was/is a revolutionary hand grinder that was the first to bridge the gap between electric & manual grinders. Doug & Barbara from Orphan Espresso are long time manual anything coffee and designed this grinder from the ground up to fill a niche that nobody knew existed. While other hand grinders that were currently on the market featured tiny or dull/ceramic burr sets, they solved an even greater problem; burr set alignment/stability. By employing the 38mm Baratza conical burr set (featured in the fantastic Virtuoso) with a stabilized drive shaft & functional adjustment mechanism OE brought to market the best hand grinder ever produced. Not only was it nails at French Press to Aeropress, but it was passable at esprssso. Due to its immediate success, OE immediately put their profits back into their R&D dept. which led to the LIDO 2 & 3. These grinders had larger, improved burr sets with greater stability & quicker grind times. While the LIDO 1 has a very casual & relaxed pace to its grind, the LIDO 2 requires more force to drive its larger (48mm) burr set. The trade off is fewer turns to process the coffee with a more precise grind. My point is, the LIDO line is a fantastic set of grinders that produce a grind quality that rivals the best in the business such as the KF 804 etc.
Here is my LIDO 2 loaded up for tmrw's brew along with the LIDO 1 & Baratza Vario-w
Anyhow - the LIDO 1 is no longer in production & has been surpassed by at least 2 newer generations. The LIDO 1 however was/is a revolutionary hand grinder that was the first to bridge the gap between electric & manual grinders. Doug & Barbara from Orphan Espresso are long time manual anything coffee and designed this grinder from the ground up to fill a niche that nobody knew existed. While other hand grinders that were currently on the market featured tiny or dull/ceramic burr sets, they solved an even greater problem; burr set alignment/stability. By employing the 38mm Baratza conical burr set (featured in the fantastic Virtuoso) with a stabilized drive shaft & functional adjustment mechanism OE brought to market the best hand grinder ever produced. Not only was it nails at French Press to Aeropress, but it was passable at esprssso. Due to its immediate success, OE immediately put their profits back into their R&D dept. which led to the LIDO 2 & 3. These grinders had larger, improved burr sets with greater stability & quicker grind times. While the LIDO 1 has a very casual & relaxed pace to its grind, the LIDO 2 requires more force to drive its larger (48mm) burr set. The trade off is fewer turns to process the coffee with a more precise grind. My point is, the LIDO line is a fantastic set of grinders that produce a grind quality that rivals the best in the business such as the KF 804 etc.
Here is my LIDO 2 loaded up for tmrw's brew along with the LIDO 1 & Baratza Vario-w
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I loaded up the roaster with 14oz of El Salvador. These were beans I struggled with as they went right from 1c straight into 2c. With 14oz that was not a problem at all and I had a very nice roast. Longer than normal but I avoided 2c this way.
Should make for decent Thanksgiving coffee
Should make for decent Thanksgiving coffee
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
The El Sal, which was a lighter roast (probably about City+) is really interesting. It had an incredible scent of fried caramel as it bloomed, and tastes like a darker roast and chocolate. I'm really surprised how "dark" it tastes despite being a lighter roast.
If I could bottle the bloom's smell, I'd be a zillion-aire.
Stopped into a local shop for the 2nd time today & decided to roll the dice on an espresso drink. My first time through I noticed they had a 4-group La Marzocci Linea (the machine that originally put Starbucks on the map) & an E-Robur (the most expensive grinder you can buy). At a glance, you could tell the owner was at least semi-serious about coffee. I watched the barista go through his workflow for the 2 customers ahead of me & was absolutely shocked he had to use a thermometer to steam his milk. That is just flat out traaiming wheel status & to me it looked like a fish out of water. Unsurprisingly the milk was a hot distaster but the shots were well crafted due to the safety net afforded by the equipment. Obviously lots of room for improvement & I wished I could have just got behind the bar & made that equipment sing.
Footnote - their coffee was over roasted... grumble grumble
Footnote - their coffee was over roasted... grumble grumble
applescrap
Be the ball!
Was that the bodhileaf last week? Man it looked good. Sounds like a nice roast. I like chocolate and caramel so much. I am having fun. I roasted a pound more of nic. regalo de dios and hit 1c at 10 min. Cut back to four bars experimenting, then to 2 and then to 1. I felt like it stalled the crack? It was 38° out. Last time 1c lasted longer. Anyways left it on for 1min40sec more. Tried for a little darker. Burnt my finger lifting lid like a noob. The air roast is something interesting. Used blower to clean bm and heat gun.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
The el sal I had was from Burmans. Has been really tough to roast because the beans are huuuuge. I think Nic has some good chocolate caramel flavors sometimes too
applescrap
Be the ball!
Some thoughts and experimentation this morning . As I was putting tin foil on the lid hole of the bread machine because the plastic melts, i considered building up a big rim of tin foil which i have seen to hold the heat gun and seal in heat. Then i wondered if that was in contradiction to the idea of air roasted coffee. So in that spirit i took the lid off and roasted that way. The plastic mold that holds the lid, holds the heat gun in place right above the beans. It only blows air on one side instead of moving it around but I don't think it matters. It gives the heat gun plenty of air to cool as well. The beans actually cooked much faster. With the heat gun on high right above it I heard a very loud crack at 7:50. I switched power to halfway and full 1c commensed at 830. I switched to lowest power at 9 min and finished at 10min. Seeking second crack but hoping not to hear it. Anyways what do you think? With the heat gun so close to the beans and the variable heat gun, seems I could have first crack happen anywhere between 7 minutes and 50 seconds to 11 minutes plus. Note its cold here in denver this morning. I think a little slower could up the consistency? Lost some coffee trying to cool with the blower. Then figured out that I could stack the collanders and make a little cage. On low the blower cooled the coffee in seconds. Since nothing gets burnt, I hit the bread machine and heat gun quick with blower and done.
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Aristotelian
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I am using heat gun/dog bowl method similar to this. I get the gun right up to the beans and stir constantly. Using this method, my typical profile is similar to this, early FC around 7:30-8:00, peak FC around 8:30-9:00, finish at 11:00-12:00. I have been getting great results with this type of profile whereas longer roasts in the 15:00 range have been less consistent in terms of flavor and body.
^could you use a range burner drip pan as a cover to hold the HG? It has a nice port on the side to let air & chaff out.
The nozzle looks a bit close to the beans IMHO but your results will not lie. Just keep in mind how powerful that hot air is & that you can roast the outside quicker than the inside & reach 1C with an uneven roast or worse yet, scorched beans.
Great work getting a cooling system in place. That's a great way to improve your roasts. Quick cooling locks in your roast profile & tends to boost sweetness
The nozzle looks a bit close to the beans IMHO but your results will not lie. Just keep in mind how powerful that hot air is & that you can roast the outside quicker than the inside & reach 1C with an uneven roast or worse yet, scorched beans.
Great work getting a cooling system in place. That's a great way to improve your roasts. Quick cooling locks in your roast profile & tends to boost sweetness
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