Re-circulating Cleaning system build

I'm interested in building a recirculating cleaning system simply to save time on cleaning. But I'm having some trouble figuring out proper flow rates and what size pump I need since I will be jumping all my taps together. Do any of you have a formula or chart to reference?

I'd be interested in that too... I use one of those Eco pumps rated at about 320 gph, but I get truly awful flow rates (basically a trickle) through about 30 feet of beer lines on three taps. I'm tempted to hook up a cheap harbor freight sump pump the next time I clean.

Here is mine. I have 27ft 1/4" bevseal lines. Pump is a 1/8 HP sump pump. Taps are perlick 425 with cleaning attachments. Keg disconnects are jumped with Bobby Ms disconnect to disconnect part.

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jmark, what size bev tube are you using?
good to know the 320 is too small for 30 feet

milldoggy, that's a great setup, where did you find the cleaning adapters for the 425's?

Can you post more info on the pump? GPH? or a GPH lift ratio if it says it? Are you happy with the flow rate?

In the industry I work in (personal care products), we aim for 5'/sec flow velocity during flushes and CIPs. The flow rate can pretty easily be calculated from your tube geometry. If you're not sure how to do it i can elaborate.

Note that there are different styles out pumps out there though. Most pumps you'll see at the HB level are centrifugal and have a spec curve that relates flow rate and pump head (pressure). The higher the flow, the less head you get, and vice versa. That 320 gph pump is only going to put out 320 gph when there is 0 restriction at the outlet.

Bean said:

jmark, what size bev tube are you using?
good to know the 320 is too small for 30 feet

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3/16"... I think I'd need something at least 3-4x powerful to get decent flow rates.

And yup... What Milldoggy has looks great... If I should be getting 5' a second then I'm screwed - probably getting 5' a minute

Here is the cleaning adapter
http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3323

Attached pic of pump, from northern tool. Flow is pretty good, works for me and allows me to clean 110/ft of line at once.

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milldoggy said:

Here is the cleaning adapter
http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3323

Attached pic of pump, from northern tool. Flow is pretty good, works for me and allows me to clean 110/ft of line at once.

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Awesome! thanks for the information!

picking this idea back up now what I have rebuild my kegerator. The idea right now is to allow for the pump I purchased double as a keg cleaner so I want to come up a design which will all for both. I picked up a Homdox 1HP 3566 GPH Submersible Clean/Dirty Water Pump;

• 1 HP /750W, Max Flow Rate: 3566 GPH, help deal with the pumping with higher efficiency.
• STRONG: Capacity: 13500L/H, Max Supple Height: 29.5Feet, Voltage/Frequency:115V/60HZ, Max Submersion Depth: 16.4FT
• Power Cord Length: 16.4 Ft, Discharge bore:1.5 inch. Three fittings with different diameters for outflow(1” ,1.25”, 1.5&#8221 to choose from according to the flow rate.

schematix said:

In the industry I work in (personal care products), we aim for 5'/sec flow velocity during flushes and CIPs. The flow rate can pretty easily be calculated from your tube geometry. If you're not sure how to do it i can elaborate.[...]

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We dispense beer with pressures around 10-15 psi through tubing configurations that are generally not going to be conducive to "5 feet per second" velocity - on purpose.

It'd take a positive displacement pump to even get close, I believe...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

We dispense beer with pressures around 10-15 psi through tubing configurations that are generally not going to be conducive to "5 feet per second" velocity - on purpose.

It'd take a positive displacement pump to even get close, I believe...

Cheers!

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I was referring to the CIP process, not the serving process.

I'd hate to be the pint glass on the receiving end of 5'/sec!

schematix said:

I was referring to the CIP process, not the serving process.

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So was I. My point is you aren't likely going to find a centrifugal pump that fits in a bucket and can move cleaner at 5'/sec through a beer line that's tuned to not let that happen.

I'd hate to be the pint glass on the receiving end of 5'/sec!

Click to expand...

Indeed...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

So was I. My point is you aren't likely going to find a centrifugal pump that fits in a bucket and can move cleaner at 5'/sec through a beer line that's tuned to not let that happen.

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No doubt. My 2 march pumps in series barely make a half decent flow rate through 10 feet of beer line.

I upgraded to a lifeguard 6600. Pricy st 154, but oil-less. Having an oil filled pump started to worry me.

So are you guys saying this is a futile effort and simply buy new beer line every 6 months or it isn't possible to build something which can clean kegs and beer line from the same pump? I would think the cleaners used would have some abrasive characteristics to them which would be amplified by a higher velocity pump but anything is better than not cleaning them at all.

No, nothing that dramatic. I'm still cleaning with my recirculating rig.
Just noting why achieving that 5'/second specification could be a challenge, especially if the solution involves a centrifugal pump...

Cheers!

I'm still using some of the same serving lines I started with 5 years ago. Some are a little stained but they don't have any funk. The only cleaning they get is a slow PBW run after i clean a keg (i pressurize to a few psi and run them out through the liquid side, mostly for purposes of cleaning the inside of the dip tube). I then hook them up to a the main water supply, blast them clean, and then hang them to dry.

Honestly i wouldn't worry that much about getting 5'/sec to clean them. It's not like you're trying to clean a hose you're going to be using on the cold side indefinitely. Get some good chemicals and a pump and you'll get them sufficiently clean.

To clean a keg with a CIP ball or similar is going to require a beefier pump. It takes a lot of pressure to run those hard enough.

I wouldn't try to clean all of your lines hooked end to end though. There is a ton of restriction in small ID tubing like we use in serving beer.

Yeah, I built and occasionally still use two of those.

But this thread is a little more advanced than that trick hand pump - what with "recirculating" and all...

Cheers!