Bolt strength

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burdbrew

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If I'm sure of anything, it's that many of you have far more engineering acumen than I do.

I am mounting a burner to steel and 11/16ths bolts are working for me, but I'm left to wonder, what is the maximum weight such a bolt (or four bolts as the case might be) can reasonable hold? I am not looking to get near the maximum, I just want to be reasonable.

The internet has done me few favors, most of what is written by engineers for engineers. Anyone out there have a feel for this sort of thing?
 
Honestly when in doubt buy some high SAE grade bolts and use those. If you have a Fastenal near you take a bolt and nut in there and tell them the weight the stand needs to support and they should be able to suggest something. If not, go with the highest grade and be prepared to pay more, but know that an elephant could sit on your rig and those bolts wouldn't shear :D
 
It really depends on how you are mounting them, e.g. are the bolts being stretched lengthways or sliced in half by the metal it is holding together (trying not to be technical :))
I would say that more than likely the frames/burner is going to buckle/tear before the bolt fails.
As for you question for a "standard 11/17" bolt - about 4,000 kg per bolt if it is being pulled lengthways.
If 11/16 Across the flats of the head then guessing a 1/2" bolt = 2,700 kg approx
 
11/16 is not a common bolt size. In fact it pretty much doesn't exist. Bolts are measured by the diameter of the outside of the threads and not the head of the bolt. Sounds like you probably have a 7/16" bolt.

Bolts are rated in tensile strength in the units ksi. That is thousand PSI. You will typically see the "yield" strength ratings. That is when the bolt fails. So the rating the of the bolt is based on the minimum force it takes to yield, or in other words break. These things are measured if you were pulling the bolt from end to end. When you act sideways on the bolt you are looking at the shear strength. This is complicated but if you assume that shear is 60% of the yield (remember we are talking force to break the bolt) then you will get pretty close.

In SUPER basic terms SAE, read that "american", bolts have three basic classifications. These are called grades: grade 2, grade 5 and grade 8. These are MINIMUM specs that must be met in order to be graded that way. The bolts are made from differing metals and have different heat treatments applied to them to achieve the various hardness and strength ratings. Grade 2 is the weakest, cheapest and most common. It is typically a chinese made bolt sold in an american store. These bolts are typically marked with "307A or "A307" on the top of the bolt head. Grade 5 and Grade 8 are both harder bolts. They are marked with radial lines on the top of the bolt head. Grade 5 has three equidistant radial lines and Grade 8 has 6 similar lines.

On bolts the length of the thread is standardized. So if you see a 3" bolt with 1.75" of thread then the 5" bolt will also have 1.75" of thread. I don't need to get into the length formula here.

The nuts that go with these fasteners are rated for similar forces. So if you are using grade 8 bolts you should be using grade 8 nuts to achieve maximum strength. If the bolt is threaded into something of unknown tensile strength then the total strength of the unit is questionable and can't be identified unless you have an engineering analysis and testing done.

I haven't touched on other grades of metal. There are two grades of stainless that are widely used in fasteners: t304 and t316 stainless. These bolts have a lower tensile strength than SAE hardened bolts. I have seen test results as high as 120ksi, which is comparable to grade 5 SAE bolts, but typical analysis is 50-70ksi and more in line with grade 2 fasteners.

Another problem with stainless is that it galls easily. You need to use a thread lubricant when assembling the bolts. Galling is basically pressure welding two pieces of stainless together. If you have TONS of money to kill then you should send your stainless fasteners out to be Xylon coated. This acts as a thread lubricant so you can avoid adding something at time of assembly.

If you happen to be working with a pure chloride environment and you don't need to weld the stainless then I would suggest Duplex 2205 stainless. That is some blinging stuff!

I'll try to attach a MTR tomorrow. That is a Material Test Report provided by the manufacturer for each lot of bolts. They are pretty neat.
 
11/16 is not a common bolt size. In fact it pretty much doesn't exist. Bolts are measured by the diameter of the outside of the threads and not the head of the bolt. Sounds like you probably have a 7/16" bolt.

Bolts are rated in tensile strength in the units ksi. That is thousand PSI. You will typically see the "yield" strength ratings. That is when the bolt fails. So the rating the of the bolt is based on the minimum force it takes to yield, or in other words break. These things are measured if you were pulling the bolt from end to end. When you act sideways on the bolt you are looking at the shear strength. This is complicated but if you assume that shear is 60% of the yield (remember we are talking force to break the bolt) then you will get pretty close.

In SUPER basic terms SAE, read that "american", bolts have three basic classifications. These are called grades: grade 2, grade 5 and grade 8. These are MINIMUM specs that must be met in order to be graded that way. The bolts are made from differing metals and have different heat treatments applied to them to achieve the various hardness and strength ratings. Grade 2 is the weakest, cheapest and most common. It is typically a chinese made bolt sold in an american store. These bolts are typically marked with "307A or "A307" on the top of the bolt head. Grade 5 and Grade 8 are both harder bolts. They are marked with radial lines on the top of the bolt head. Grade 5 has three equidistant radial lines and Grade 8 has 6 similar lines.

On bolts the length of the thread is standardized. So if you see a 3" bolt with 1.75" of thread then the 5" bolt will also have 1.75" of thread. I don't need to get into the length formula here.

The nuts that go with these fasteners are rated for similar forces. So if you are using grade 8 bolts you should be using grade 8 nuts to achieve maximum strength. If the bolt is threaded into something of unknown tensile strength then the total strength of the unit is questionable and can't be identified unless you have an engineering analysis and testing done.

I haven't touched on other grades of metal. There are two grades of stainless that are widely used in fasteners: t304 and t316 stainless. These bolts have a lower tensile strength than SAE hardened bolts. I have seen test results as high as 120ksi, which is comparable to grade 5 SAE bolts, but typical analysis is 50-70ksi and more in line with grade 2 fasteners.

Another problem with stainless is that it galls easily. You need to use a thread lubricant when assembling the bolts. Galling is basically pressure welding two pieces of stainless together. If you have TONS of money to kill then you should send your stainless fasteners out to be Xylon coated. This acts as a thread lubricant so you can avoid adding something at time of assembly.

If you happen to be working with a pure chloride environment and you don't need to weld the stainless then I would suggest Duplex 2205 stainless. That is some blinging stuff!

I'll try to attach a MTR tomorrow. That is a Material Test Report provided by the manufacturer for each lot of bolts. They are pretty neat.

you must be an engineer :D Providing all that information but not actually answering the question ;)
 
I may have the bolt size wrong. Sorry. Thank you for the knowledge. I came here to learn something and did.

I merely asked what would be within some degree of reasonableness, as I'm sure I can ask questions here when I humbly make no claim at expertise. People here have a history of knowing stuff and being kind, IME.

4,000 kg is 1,800 lbs. by my rough estimation. That bolt is not a weakness in my scheme, and your answer gets me to that point in a hurry. My situation works, as this strength crushes anything I intend to do. Thanks Matt, spot on.
 
4,000 kg is 1,800 lbs. by my rough estimation. That bolt is not a weakness in my scheme, and your answer gets me to that point in a hurry. My situation works, as this strength crushes anything I intend to do.

Thanks again...

Nope you got it the wrong way round - 4000kg = 8800 lbs, but same outcome = the bolt is not of concern :)
I have learnt something as an engineer, what the general public think looks about strong enough is usually much stronger than it actually needs to be to prevent it breaking :D
 
Not an engineer. But I do work in the fastener industry. It is a complex world.

You can calculate rough strength for yourself if you can do basic math and some geometry. Just figure out the area of the bolt and then look at the tensile strength. If you have an area of .5" and a tensile of 150,000 psi then your size is 75,000 pounds of tensile strength. If you want to know he shear strength of that multiply by 0.6.

150,000psi is the minimum for a grade 8 in this example.
 
Not an engineer. But I do work in the fastener industry. It is a complex world.

You can calculate rough strength for yourself if you can do basic math and some geometry. Just figure out the area of the bolt and then look at the tensile strength. If you have an area of .5" and a tensile of 150,000 psi then your size is 75,000 pounds of tensile strength. If you want to know he shear strength of that multiply by 0.6.

150,000psi is the minimum for a grade 8 in this example.

Would it not be best to use yield strength instead of ultimate tensile? Once the bolt begins to yeail and stretch it looses its boltiness and the joint will be loose, leading to a sloppy joint.
Where does 0.6 come from? I was always under the impression that shear strength was 1/2 tensile... but that is theorectical and doesn't account for real life ;)

As for the OP, I guess that was his question > not being of a technical background and having no idea of how to calculate it he wanted to know when someone says don't worry those bolts will hold up a truck, if that person actually means they will hold up a truck or just a fair bit of weight.
 
1/2 just increases the safety margin. I've seen calculations as high as 70% for shear strength. Pretty complex stuff with a lot of variables. But I don't need to tell you that.
 
I hate to be a bother at the grown up's table. So what you're saying is I'm okay at 180 lbs (high estimate) with the bolts I have?

Kidding, thanks guys. I appreciate the discourse.
 
Im an engineer, and can get really detailed if you want...but it appears you dont haha

Those bolts will handle a few tons if working in parallel at room temperature. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't the weak link.

What does the setup look like?

Btw...when doing these calculations, it's important to know that metals can lose substantial strength at high temperature.
 
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