Sweet Stout Stuck?

Hi everyone,

I have a SWEET (not sweat, I can't fix the typo in the title) stout (with sassafras and 1 lb of lactose) in the fermentor. Its OG was 1068 I used Irish Ale yeast (1084) I brewed it a month ago almost to the day. I pitched at 62 and kept it around there (62-63) for 3 days then i tried to raise it but I couldn't get it go higher than 64.

After 4 days airlock activity stopped (I know it doesn't mean anything) and I took a gravity reading. It was 1.033, which concerned me. But I thought it must still be fermenting so I left it alone. Last week (3 weeks in primary) I took another reading and it was still 1.033. So then I remember/was reminded that the 1lb of lactose will raise the FG. But I still thought I must have a stuck fermentation because the FG was so high. So I gave it a swirl and raised the temp to low 70s. A couple a days later I checked the gravity and it was still 1.033. So I added 1 packet of us-05 last sunday (six days ago). Now the FG is around 1.032 (its foamy and I'm having trouble getting a good reading).

So is it stuck, or is it just the lactose? I'm thinking i'm just going to go ahead and bottle it and see what happens. I'm a little concerned about bottle bombs though. It does taste great if that matters.

i don't want to taste a sweat stout.

itsratso said:

i don't want to taste a sweat stout.

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lol oops I can't edit the thread title either...oh well.

No one is going to help the idiot that can't spell?

What was the rest of the recipe? Extract? All grain? 5 gallon batch?

It was all grain. 5.5 gal. Recipe below:


Type: All Grain Date: 8/19/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 6.22 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 5.72 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal Est Mash Efficiency 65.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs 12.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 63.5 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.8 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.2 %
12.8 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.8 %
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 7.2 %
0.65 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 30.5 IBUs
1.40 oz Sassafras Root Bark (Boil 30.0 mins) Spice 9 -
1.0 pkg Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [124.21 ml] Yeast 10 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.1 %
Bitterness: 30.5 IBUs Calories: 229.8 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 34.9 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 13.6 oz
Sparge Water: 2.14 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 165.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 18.06 qt of water at 166.4 F 156.0 F 45 min
Mash Out Add 6.43 qt of water at 208.5 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 2.14 gal water at 168.0 F

You have a fair amount of unfermentables in there with the crystal and dark malts, and you mashed pretty high. That said, your FG still seems high - the lactose should only raise the FG by 6-8 points and I would expect this beer to finish out in the 1.024-1.026 range. You mentioned that the gravity dropped another point after adding the new yeast...I might let it ride a few days and see what happens. I'd also warm the fermenter up some too if you can.

Btw, have you calibrated your hydrometer? (you are using a hydrometer, right?)

JeffD1 said:

No one is going to help the idiot that can't spell?

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Oh, don't worry! We help all kinds of idiots around here, even those who make sweat stouts.

Anyway, you're using a calibrated hydrometer, and not a refractometer, correct?

Your mash temperature was at 156 at the very beginning and stayed there?

JLem said:

You have a fair amount of unfermentables in there with the crystal and dark malts, and you mashed pretty high. That said, your FG still seems high - the lactose should only raise the FG by 6-8 points and I would expect this beer to finish out in the 1.024-1.026 range. You mentioned that the gravity dropped another point after adding the new yeast...I might let it ride a few days and see what happens. I'd also warm the fermenter up some too if you can.

Btw, have you calibrated your hydrometer? (you are using a hydrometer, right?)

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yeah thats a good point, but I have calibrated my hydrometer pretty recently. I'll double check it though. I will let it go a few more days and see what happens. Thanks.

One more question...Beersmith estimates an FG of 1.014. Beersmith should take into account the lactose right? But considering 1lb of lactose, and a high mash temp, that seems low. Is it possible beersmith fails to take the lactose into account?

EDIT: I corrected my estimated efficiency which raised the estimated OG up to the actual OG and now it is estimating 1.018. Still seems a little low to me.

Yooper said:

Oh, don't worry! We help all kinds of idiots around here, even those who make sweat stouts.

Anyway, you're using a calibrated hydrometer, and not a refractometer, correct?

Your mash temperature was at 156 at the very beginning and stayed there?

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Lol thanks! Yep floating hydrometer. And yes, I actually just got a new mashtun and I was amazed at how well it held the temp.

Hey somehow my title got corrected...thanks mods! I need you guys around more often when I mess up.

Beersmith will try to account for lactose if you use the one that's under grains (I think). But it's been complained about quite a bit on their forums for doing a poopy job of it. So I wouldn't rely on it.

In other news, I am doing a milk chocolate stout at the moment, which had an initial gravity very close to yours and is no stuck at 1.03. I don't think it's stuck, even though it seems high. I've moved it to secondary and will judge once it's drinkable if something in my process went wrong or if it's just the recipe.

JeffD1 said:

yeah thats a good point, but I have calibrated my hydrometer pretty recently. I'll double check it though. I will let it go a few more days and see what happens. Thanks.

One more question...Beersmith estimates an FG of 1.014. Beersmith should take into account the lactose right? But considering 1lb of lactose, and a high mash temp, that seems low. Is it possible beersmith fails to take the lactose into account?

EDIT: I corrected my estimated efficiency which raised the estimated OG up to the actual OG and now it is estimating 1.018. Still seems a little low to me.

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I'm not sure how BeerSmith deals with fermentability of the ingredients. I wouldn't be surprised if it is isn't particularly accurate...if taken into account at all. I would add 6-8 points to whatever BeerSmith is telling you to get a more reasonable FG in this case....so, 1.024-1.026, which is where I think of most sweet stouts would/should fall.

the yeast you used has a published upper apparent attenuation rate of 75%. Starting at 1.068, 75% attenuation would get you down to 1.017 - without taking into account the high mash temp, the lactose, or the unfermentables from the other grains. I guess the question is now, should you have expected your beer, taking into account the high mash temp and the crystal and dark grains, in the absence of the lactose, to only get down to 1.026 (such that the lactose brings it up to gravity you now have)? I suppose it is possible...I had a stout, mashed at 152, with over 10% crystal malts and almost 15% dark malts, that finished at 1.022. I don't know how much mash temp truly influences FG - could a 4 degree difference in mash temp between your beer and mine result in a 4 point difference in FG?

It sounds like you're doing what you should to make sure this beer gets to terminal gravity. If, after another few days, you're still sitting at 1.033 or so, I would call ti done and bottle it (though I would probably err on the side of undercarbonation...just in case)

Thanks everyone!

I did one recently about the same as far as OG, Lactose and mash temp as yours. Mine finished at 1.030, I bottled it with traditional stout carb levels and was just fine.

I also did one before mashed @ 152 and a pound of lactose. Finished at 1.025, I was scared to bottle both times lol, but they were cool

JLem said:

I'm not sure how BeerSmith deals with fermentability of the ingredients. I wouldn't be surprised if it is isn't particularly accurate...if taken into account at all.

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You're right on with the 6-8 pts off.

to the OP - if it's just too sweet you could consider brewing a drier stout and blending down. Carb some up and see if it's tasty. might be fine.

thesmithsera said:

I did one recently about the same as far as OG, Lactose and mash temp as yours. Mine finished at 1.030, I bottled it with traditional stout carb levels and was just fine.

I also did one before mashed @ 152 and a pound of lactose. Finished at 1.025, I was scared to bottle both times lol, but they were cool

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Thanks! Thats the post I was hoping for, makes me feel better about bottling it. I'll still let give it a couple more days and then bottle it.

brycelarson said:

You're right on with the 6-8 pts off.

to the OP - if it's just too sweet you could consider brewing a drier stout and blending down. Carb some up and see if it's tasty. might be fine.

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Huh...I would never have thought of that. Thanks for the tip. I think it tastes really good right now, so I think I'll leave it and see what happens.

JeffD1 said:

Huh...I would never have thought of that. Thanks for the tip. I think it tastes really good right now, so I think I'll leave it and see what happens.

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How did this turn out for you? Any bottle bombs? I'm in a similar predicament and hope you see this and reply in the next day or two haha.

Sorry I never updated. I ended up adding more yeast. First I added rehydrated us-05 and nothing happened. Then I remember reading in "Yeast" by Jamil that when you trying to restart a stuck fermentation you should make a starter and add the yeast during high krausen. I made a yeast starter with high gravity trappist Yeast (WL3787) and added it during high krausen, and that brought down to 1.19 in about a week.

Ironically, I would have liked the beer to be a little sweeter, but I didn't have any bottle bombs as of yet (I bottled 11/3).

Thanks. I'm at 1.028 after a month (btwn both primary and secondary), but my stout was steeped with chocolate and caramel malts, roasted barley, a little black patent, and oats on top of the lactose, so I think 1.028 is reasonable...I hope.

ScoobyDude said:

Thanks. I'm at 1.028 after a month (btwn both primary and secondary), but my stout was steeped with chocolate and caramel malts, roasted barley, a little black patent, and oats on top of the lactose, so I think 1.028 is reasonable...I hope.

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Yeah since you have lactose in it you should hopefully be alright. I probably would have bottled if I had gotten below 1.030...

Good luck. If you remember, do I what didn't, and let us know how it turned out.

I bottled mine at 1.03 and it certainly needed a bit of ageing, but otherwise came out fine after a few weeks. If you add lactose your beer is going to have a higher FG by design, and that number seemed to work fine.

Just to followup. Bottled at 1.26ish three weeks ago. No bombs to speak of. Just now starting to carb with a vigorous pour. Its just a slow beer.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Home Brew mobile app

I made an 11 gallon batch of milk stout back in early November that was based on 20lb Maris Otter, 2lb Munich, and another 6lb of other grains for color, etc. Added 2lb of lactose to the boil, giving an OG of 1.076. After 2 weeks of fermentation using S-04 at 62F, the FG was 1.030. I really wasn't too concerned because I had mashed at a high temp (155) and the added lactose threw off the numbers (1.024 estimated by BrewersFriend). I put this into 2 cornies, so I wasn't concerned about bottle bombs. Turned out great!