Beware of Auber Instruments

When the FOB term is “Buyers Dock” or similar words, the title to the goods remains with the shipper until the carrier delivers it to the buyer’s hands. The shipper bears all expenses, and the risk of loss or damage, until the goods are tendered for delivery at the buyer’s hands.

The issue is between Auber and Fedex. Auber in my opinion should have just bit the bullet and do what good businesses do and replace the parts and require a signature on the next shipment. I have had things stolen several times through the years and good businesses never question it and deal with the fright company them selves.

I think if Auber did the right thing this post would have never happened and the money the saved on that one transactions cost them a lot of sales from the HBT community (me for sure). Bobby said what I like to hear from a vendor earlier in this post and that is why I will always buy from him. Unfortunately newtstampede suffers the loss here and I hope he buys elsewhere.

whoaru99 said:

Standard delivery process is to the address and apartment number specified. If you want it to go to the office then put that in the ship-to address.

It can all be very easily avoided by being clear rather ambiguous about where you actually want the package to end up.

Do your delivery person a favor...don't make them guess where you want that package to actually go.

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It's almost as if you've never lived in an apartment building. In all the ones I've lived in, it is standard practice for the delivery guys to just dump their attempted deliveries at the manager's office and leave a note on the door. In several cases our regular guy wouldn't bother with the note, so it would instead be standard practice to stop by the manager's office when expecting a delivery, to see if it had arrived yet.

Of course the real problem here is that Auber shipped the package with no signature required (not a choice given to the customer), and then the driver decided it would be OK to leave a couple hundred dollars in electronics sitting in a public hallway rather than drop it off in the manager's office on his way out of the building.

Just a couple of comments:

The last time I had something shipped by FedEx, there was a link on the "tracking" page to request in-store pickup. If I was having a high-dollar item shipped to me, I would use this option. I don;t have thieving neighbors though. I know most of them by face if not by name (I'm horrible with names).


One (minor) complaint I have with FedEx is that they always leave packages in front of my garage. I wish they would take them to my door, which is a little more "private".


My company deals with shipments using all 4 of the "consumer" carriers (UPS, FedEx, DHL, and USPS) as well as larger freight companies. There isn't a single one that I couldn't come up with something bad in regards to past experiences. I've received packages halfway around the world in under a week from one of them one week, and a package from the same place takes 6 weeks when shipped the next week.

A little off topic but I'm so tired of package delivery services. As a small business owner I've had a ton of problems and as a personal consumer I've had a ton of problems with them.

I don't understand how a company can operate on the basis that: Give us your property and your money but if we mess up you're SOL.

krackin said:

Customer has a contract with the seller to supply an item.

Seller has a contract with the shipper to deliver the item to the the customer.

Item was not delivered to the customer.

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Simply stated.

Yes, it was delivered. Someone out of the loop stole it.

whoaru99 said:

Yes, it was delivered. Someone out of the loop stole it.

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The receiver wasn't the one who left the package in an insecure area. It is pretty asinine to claim that this is somehow his fault.

It sounds to me like FedEx is paying the seller back for a lost package yet the Seller is trying to incur additional profit by charging the buyer again.

When I lived in an apartment, no one left packages in public areas, even if there was no signature required. If there was no one to answer the door, there was a delivery notice left behind for the receiver to pick up the package.

This is completely on FedEx. Their policy is to deal with the shippers only when packages are lost. That sounds like what is being done here. Yet it also sounds like auber is trying to profit from the mistake. Seems they essentially want to be paid twice.

Whoops, double post.

I'd just drop the point about Fedex paying the shipper. The red tape involved in filing the claim and following up will literally take 1-2 hours and there is a good chance they will reject the claim on this one anyway. Unless your business is ultra slow, no one has time for it so no matter how you look at it, Auber needs to take the loss. As I said before, they are looking at the loss as out of their control. Well, sort of, unless they put signature confirmation on it. They are partially at fault but mostly they are just being terrible business people.

Here's the real rub though... there's no proof that the customer didn't really find it in front of their door and still claim it was stolen. I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, but it could be a shady tactic nonetheless.

If you look at Paypal's policy, which is very much in favor of buyers, they consider USPS's delivery confirmation as proof of delivery for transactions under $250 and signature confirmation for values above. If Auber used paypal, by Paypal's standards the OP is out of luck. This STILL doesn't account for customer perception effects as this is a BUSINESS decision.

If you just take a look at the comments throughout this thread, a very small minority of posters think Auber is right. Frankly, it's not even based on the merit of the argument. If people think a business is shady then they are.

Frankly, I'm pretty astonished that Auber hasn't stepped up and dealt with this, as the reputation damage appears to far exceed the value of the loss. It is also inconsistent with their prior reputation of providing very good service. Perhaps there is more to the story, but even so this appears to be a poor business decision.

With this much conversation about the topic, this could have really grown legs in the Debate Forum.

Bobby_M said:

I'd just drop the point about Fedex paying the shipper. The red tape involved in filing the claim and following up will literally take 1-2 hours and there is a good chance they will reject the claim on this one anyway. Unless your business is ultra slow, no one has time for it so no matter how you look at it, Auber needs to take the loss. As I said before, they are looking at the loss as out of their control. Well, sort of, unless they put signature confirmation on it. They are partially at fault but mostly they are just being terrible business people.

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OP stated above FedEX told him they processed Auber's claim. I understand your point all I'm saying is Auber should explain/show the OP what (if anything) they recieved from FedEX, because FedEX has implied otherwise.

Bobby_M said:

Here's the real rub though... there's no proof that the customer didn't really find it in front of their door and still claim it was stolen. I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, but it could be a shady tactic nonetheless.

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There's no proof it was ever delivered either. I had a similar case where UPS said a package was delivered and I called them and they told me it must have been stolen, driver said he dropped it on my porch, etc etc. Contacted seller, they contacted UPS. UPS contacted me to explain where they left it, it must have been stolen etc etc. A week later they called me to say they had it in their warehouse and I could pick it up or they could attempt delivery again.

The package being stolen is probably more likely then above, but we have no idea what actually happened.

Bobby_M said:

I'd just drop the point about Fedex paying the shipper. The red tape involved in filing the claim and following up will literally take 1-2 hours and there is a good chance they will reject the claim on this one anyway. Unless your business is ultra slow, no one has time for it so no matter how you look at it, Auber needs to take the loss. As I said before, they are looking at the loss as out of their control. Well, sort of, unless they put signature confirmation on it. They are partially at fault but mostly they are just being terrible business people.

Here's the real rub though... there's no proof that the customer didn't really find it in front of their door and still claim it was stolen. I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, but it could be a shady tactic nonetheless.

If you look at Paypal's policy, which is very much in favor of buyers, they consider USPS's delivery confirmation as proof of delivery for transactions under $250 and signature confirmation for values above. If Auber used paypal, by Paypal's standards the OP is out of luck. This STILL doesn't account for customer perception effects as this is a BUSINESS decision.

If you just take a look at the comments throughout this thread, a very small minority of posters think Auber is right. Frankly, it's not even based on the merit of the argument. If people think a business is shady then they are.

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Sorry Bobby. No wash. Company policy and law don't always jive dude.

Show me the law that says buyers contractual agreements with sellers are invalid.

Auber has pretty much left me out to dry on this issue. Haven't heard back from them for 6 days now. I will just be letting USAA take this one over, as far as they are concerned its no signature, no delivery. I will also be contacting FedEx and informing them about the way Auber is handling this situation. As far as I am concerned I will never be dealing with Auber again and I will also be informing others to avoid doing business with them in the future.

Sorry to hear how this turned out. I've never ordered ordered from Auber, but with my intentions of going electric soon, I've noted your poor customer service. When the time comes I'll have to evaluate all options prior to ordering. Good luck with the rest of refund process. As a fellow USAA customer I'm sure they will take good care of you.

I know that most of us have had good service from Auber. But, I think it is time for us to help a fellow brewer. I suggest everyone send an email to Auber and ask if it is worth all the bad talk going on here for them to not work things out with newtstampede. It will only take a few minutes and it might help. If this issue happens once it may happen again and again, then we lose a trusted vendor.

Today I received another email from Auber confirming that FedEx has sent them the claim check and will reship if I withdraw my dispute through USAA. Called USAA, let them know that Auber and I have come to an agreement and they have canceled the dispute. I am just waiting to hear back from Auber with the tracking number right now.

That's great! It's just too bad auber let their reputation get wrecked before they came to the right answer. I bet they still lose some business over this thread. Let us know when you finally get your stuff

There is no reason for Auber, now, to have a tarnished reputation. It is the carriers fault for the issue. If FedEx reimbursed Auber more quickly, we would not be having this discussion. As the OP said, FedEx had stated they were reimbursing Auber but that took quite a bit of time. Auber, understandable, was waiting for the confirmation from FedEx.

While bad business practice (IMO) on Auber's part, they were well within their rights to sort it all out before reshipping.

Duplicate post

mrwizard0 said:

Congrats, that's great that auber finally is doing the right thing. It's too bad they had to wreck their reputation before it happened. Let us know when you actually get your stuff.

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Auber Instruments "wrecked" their reputation???

Not a chance. Read the thread again.!

Auber Instruments is an Outstanding Business not equaled anywhere. They provide (and add) outstanding products for this specific market.

Just so you know, I do and will support them 100%.

You don't like that? Do not use ANY of my diagrams.!!!

(Steam pouring from my ears....!!!!)

I would agree "wrecked their reputation" might be a bit over the top, but I stick with what I said all along. FedEX told the OP from the start that they were processing/processed Auber's claim (read the thread), yet all Auber offered was to re-ship after additional payment.

It wasn't until the OP filed a claim with his credit card that Auber said FedEX was reimbursing them (what I wanted Auber to clarify from the start) and they would re-ship if he canceled the claim. Let's not be too impressed with this, their hand appears to had to be forced.

You're right wrecked may be too strong a word...tarnished? Maybe that's more legit.

mrwizard0 said:

You're right wrecked may be too strong a word...tarnished? Maybe that's more legit.

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Still WAY over the line.

Tell you what... Just find yourself another vendor to supply the products that you need to build YOUR setup. You don't like the vendor? Don't use them and then take your chances else where.

Good luck!

BTW... I back them 100% (in case you didn't know).

Glad I can have an opinion

P-J said:

Still WAY over the line.

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Much like your reaction to his post IMHO.

I'm done.

Good luck all.

Not much has been said about what constitutes an "unsecured" area. I live in a suburb of Salt Lake City, a typical "middle middle" class neighborhood built in the mid 90's. All front porches are pretty much exposed to the street. In 2011 I was just getting into homebrewing with Coopers extracts, and had been ordering kits from Amazon. The second kit I ordered never arrived as per UPS tracking information stating it had been delivered. Fortunately, I had installed a video camera/recorder covering the porch and on viewing the recording saw a young kid ride up on his bike, toss the kit into a backpack and ride off. Reported to the cops and was told they did not have the time to follow up ($50.00 loss).
I contacted Amazon, explained the situation and had another kit within 3 days at no charge.

Three months later I ordered a Coopers kit from DIYBeer.com (the importer). Checked the UPS tracking number, said it had been delivered. Checked the video and again saw a different person take the package. Called DIYBeer, told them about it and was told "Tough S**t, your problem". They stated that it took "too much time" to filke a claim. Never ordered from them again.

I bought some plywood and lashed it to the front porch railing provide a hidden, sheltered area for packages. I contacted the local UPS and Fedex managers and asked that they notify the carriers to place packages behind the shield. I printed (in large letters) a sign on an 8-1/2 x 11 paper stating that carrier please place packages behind the shield, laminated it, and attached a weight. When I was expecting a shipment, I placed the sign flat on the highest step out of sight from the street but readily visible to anybody placing a package on the porch.

UPS follows the instructions about 70% of the time, Fedex about 20%, and USPS just places packages on the top of the sign! I even took pictures of the postal delivery and wrote a letter to the local Postmaster to no avail.

Short of going to the local UPS, Fedex and post office to retrieve my packages, I don't know what else to do?

What a world we live in!

joebab said:

Short of going to the local UPS, Fedex and post office to retrieve my packages, I don't know what else to do?

What a world we live in!

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Have the packages shipped to your office?

What I take away from all of this is that following the proper channels gets you where you want to be.

We'll never know if Auber decided to resend the equipment because FedEx finally notified them of the reimbursement, or the claim with USAA. What is known is that the OP is getting what he wants. Took a little more time and a bit more hassle, but I think that's to be expected in a situation like this.

Anyway, glad it worked out.

johnsnownw said:

Have the packages shipped to your office?

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Thanks for the suggestion, but I am retired and don't have an office.

joebab- As a measure of last resort you could rent a mailbox at your local pack and ship store (Pakmail is one near me). That would be more secure.

theknub said:

There is no reason for Auber, now, to have a tarnished reputation. It is the carriers fault for the issue. If FedEx reimbursed Auber more quickly, we would not be having this discussion. As the OP said, FedEx had stated they were reimbursing Auber but that took quite a bit of time. Auber, understandable, was waiting for the confirmation from FedEx.

While bad business practice (IMO) on Auber's part, they were well within their rights to sort it all out before reshipping.

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I pretty much agree.

FedEx is the one that dropped the ball here, though Auber could have handled it better.

P-J said:

Still WAY over the line.

Tell you what... Just find yourself another vendor to supply the products that you need to build YOUR setup. You don't like the vendor? Don't use them and then take your chances else where.

Good luck!

BTW... I back them 100% (in case you didn't know).

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I smell a shill.

One "oh ****" wipes out a thousand attaboys. I have no skin in the game here but seems to me that how the business handled the issues rather than the issues themselves is what created any tarnished or less than customer freindly perception in the marketplace. Its a lot cheaper to keep a customer than aquire a new one and putting the burden on the customer rather than collaborate on a solution seems to be poorly played card.

Newest update...

Just waiting for paypal to clear the hold on their end.

Hi Mike,

In our paypal account, the case is still open and the payment is still on hold. I left a note to paypal about your agreement with the dispute cancellation. Hopefully paypal will release the payment very soon.

Thanks for your cooperation,


Suyi Liu
Auber Instruments
www.auberins.com
770-569-8420


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Mike *********@*****.com> wrote:
I have contacted USAA and have withdrawn the dispute. I will also post to HBT and notify them that we have come to a resolution to this issue.

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DougK said:

I smell a shill.

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I doubt it. but I think you should cut the man some slack. Give the man his due. This site has hundreds of electrical diagrams done by P-J, as a service to others, at what must have been considerable effort on his part, and no cost to us. There is also a post by him noting that he is advancing in years and not in the best of health, and raising the question about saving his many diagrams after he cannot support them. His work has been vendor neutral. He appears to have had far more experience than most of us with these vendors and the use of their products. I doubt that he is in the employ of Auber, any more than BCS or Brewtroller or whoever. His work has certainly not hinted at that. He deserves respect, and some latitude if his temper is a bit short. IMHO, he has more than earned these. Cheap shots are just that - cheap. Sneers elevate no one, and reflect poorly. There's that old Lincoln quote about remaining silent....

I handle calls like this as the customer service rep and the replacement is done during the first phone call. The only time I would ask the customer to stay involved after that is on a damage claim if the carrier wants to do an inspection. We then file a claim with the carrier. We also have a good relationship with both UPS and Fed Ex due to the volume we do. The emails from Auber could make it on our customer service Ouch board. And as someone who ran the 230 volt wiring last weekend knowing who has good customer service is important.

ThreeDogsNE said:

He deserves respect, and some latitude if his temper is a bit short.

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So if you do lots of good things you can have a short temper? pj has helped a lot of people, myself included, and the help is awesome, but that doesn't mean he can just come off the top rope. If I feel that auber handled this poorly then my statement that I think they tarnished there rep is valid. Sorta off topic from the OP problem, and for that I'm sorry

theknub said:

There is no reason for Auber, now, to have a tarnished reputation. * * *

While bad business practice (IMO) on Auber's part, they were well within their rights to sort it all out before reshipping.

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So bad business practices are no reason to have a tarnished reputation? Personally, I think they handled this quite poorly and have likely lost far more in future business than they would have lost on this one transaction had they stepped up in the first place. Unless my mother's life depends on it, I will take my business elsewhere.