More Problems with my LHBS

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Cougfan

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I am getting really tired of my LHBS (we'll call it Freds). Everytime I go in there, I end up talking to the guy that owns the place and hear about how his way is the only way to brew beer. He is really old school and usually goes on to tell me that all of the techniques that I learn on this website and online don't work. I have stopped going to him as much as possible, but he is the only gig in town, so when I am in a pinch, I have to go to him.

My latest encounter happened today. I found a guy that is selling homebrew supplies out of his own shop, but he is about an hour away. (As it turns out, the reason he opened up his shop was to get away from Fred's.) I ordered 50 lbs of Great western 2 row and was planning on brewing this weekend. Thi is my first bulk grain order. I ordered a grain mill from Amazon that was supposed to be here by the weekend, but it turns out it won't be here until Monday. Now I am stuck without a way to grind the grain. I called Fred's and asked if he would grind the grain for me (offered to pay for it). He hesitated but said yes. He then went on to ask "Are my prices really that high that you have to go to buy elsewhere". I told him yes and that he is charging $55 a bag and I bought this for $36. He asked my what kind of grain and I told him it was Great Western 2 row. He told me that Great Western grain is not very good and there is a reason I got it for so cheap. Maybe he is right (I hope not). At any rate, that is no way to treat a customer and I plan to do very little business in the future with him. Thanks for letting me rant. -John

Mods, I realized this probably should have gone in the general beer discussion forum. Please move it if you see fit. Thanks, John
 
Yah, I hear this sort of thing a lot. Some ppl just HAVE to be the best at what they do, and they ALWAYS have to be right. Blah blah. Great Western is fine, the only thing wrong with it is that you didnt buy it from him.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles with your LHBS. I must say that I loath sales people who talk negative about other's product. If what they sell is so great they should tell me why theirs' is better not why the other guy's is crap. Luckily their are online alternatives you can use that have good reviews from this board. But I suggest if you are doing quite a bit of all-grain to get a grain mill, remove yourself as much as possible from your LHBS. If you need suggestions on what type, PM me or search this board you will find more than one answer and no one is wrong.
 
Cougfan said:
I am getting really tired of my LHBS (we'll call it Freds). Everytime I go in there, I end up talking to the guy that owns the place and hear about how his way is the only way to brew beer. He is really old school and usually goes on to tell me that all of the techniques that I learn on this website and online don't work. I have stopped going to him as much as possible, but he is the only gig in town, so when I am in a pinch, I have to go to him.

My latest encounter happened today. I found a guy that is selling homebrew supplies out of his own shop, but he is about an hour away. (As it turns out, the reason he opened up his shop was to get away from Fred's.) I ordered 50 lbs of Great western 2 row and was planning on brewing this weekend. Thi is my first bulk grain order. I ordered a grain mill from Amazon that was supposed to be here by the weekend, but it turns out it won't be here until Monday. Now I am stuck without a way to grind the grain. I called Fred's and asked if he would grind the grain for me (offered to pay for it). He hesitated but said yes. He then went on to ask "Are my prices really that high that you have to go to buy elsewhere". I told him yes and that he is charging $55 a bag and I bought this for $36. He asked my what kind of grain and I told him it was Great Western 2 row. He told me that Great Western grain is not very good and there is a reason I got it for so cheap. Maybe he is right (I hope not). At any rate, that is no way to treat a customer and I plan to do very little business in the future with him. Thanks for letting me rant. -John

Mods, I realized this probably should have gone in the general beer discussion forum. Please move it if you see fit. Thanks, John
Click to expand...

Hey CougFan-

First of all, let me say hello from Colfax.. I am a Grad Student at WSU.. GO COUGS! And I believe I know the shop of you which you speak (is it a certain shop with 3 letters in the name and it's on Division? hehehe)

Anyway, I know the shop and I know the attitude.. I also try not to go there.. Everytime I make the 1.5 hour drive, they seem to be out of some key ingredient I need anyway...

I also just bought a 50# bag of Great Western 2 row Premium Malt (a mix of Klages and Harrington, both fine malting barlies) myself over here in Moscow, ID.. I paid $40.. I have never used it before but I did make a batch of a Mac and Jacks African Amber clone with it this past weekend and I am not worried at all about the quality.. I know several guys who have made award winning brews (literally) with this very malt.. So don't let the guy at "Freds" homebrew tell you it's garbage.... I will say that that place has been in business for something like 40 years, so they must be doing something right, but I agree that there is a know-it-all attitude there and they often try to talk you out of your brewing plans..... What kind of 2-Row does he carry there? Briess?

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that someone else (locally) feels your pain.. Go COUGS!
 
I know you mean. My old LHBS was a drag to visit when it was the only game in town. The guy wouldn't put prices on his stuff. Therefore you had to ask how much for each thing. He'd ***** and wine about you asking and then try to justify prices w/o me even complaining. Every time it was like this.

More than once I walked out of the place paying $125 with the original intent to spend about $75. I told him more than once that I have a budget and that keep to or hear SWMBO's wrath.

I couldn't ask questions because down played all of the science of the AG process. I soon figured out why.... I asked his opinion about some techniques only to learn he doesn't brew.

To add insult, he said brewing was stupid and its just cheaper to drink Natty Light. He wasn't joking either.

That was the last business he ever got from me. He is a dick with ears.

I later learned to my surprise that this guy is a supposed to be a genius. I ask why then is he always wining about the internet putting him out of business. Its no wonder to me. Genius my a$$. Smart he may be, but he can't relate to people, so he can't be too smart.
 
How the... what? How does someone open a LHBS and not brew? And hate beer, apparently? It just boggles the mind.
 
Very lame about the LHBS. You know, though, there are many great options for online ordering, with flat shipping rates. I ordered over 100 pounds worth of stuff from Austin Homebrew recently (including 80 lbs Maris Otter), and paid $7 for shipping. I'm not particularly fond of the sales staff there, but it's hard to argue with those prices.

Northern Brewer is great, and is generally my go-to. I forget why I didn't place my big order there in the first place, but it had something to do with them not having something. Either way, the point is there's at least five big, reputable online places that you can go to in an effort to bypass LHBS woes. I do have a great LHBS, and try to buy from them as often as possible, but with my schedule (and their sometimes unreliable stock), it's generally easier for me to order online.

As an aside, what grain mill did you get? I didn't know Amazon sold malt mills -- did you get a mill specifically marked as beer brewing equipment?
 
EvilTOJ said:
How the... what? How does someone open a LHBS and not brew? And hate beer, apparently? It just boggles the mind.
Click to expand...

This guy bought the business from from somebody else when it was successful. There was a rumor that he did too much brewing at one time and it might have turned into a burn-out situation or an alcohol problem. I understood he did evening classes too.

I don't think that excuses his BS attitude. He also said there is no money in home brewing now because of the big boys on the internet. He mentioned wine making is still very profitable and would do just that if it would keep him a float.

I now have a good LHBS on the other side of town. My new guy is a brewer, a member of the local clubs and is an all around good guy. His prices are descent and he will special order anything for you.
 
That sucks.

I think the term is *****epole (*****enozzel, *****ebucket, *****ebasket, *****grommet)

Guess I'm lucky, my LHBS asked me what kind of beer I liked, what hop flavor
I was into and helped me hand pick my ingredients, handed me a stack of
recipes and checked my equipment list to make sure I had everything for my
first brew.

They even gave me an extra pack of yeast.

Hope your new LHBS works out much better.
 
I have a siimilar problem. There are two homebrew shops within 20 miles of me. One has limited supply, only mainstream stuff, and charges 33% or more than what I can buy it for online. The owner is good, but it is geared for more of the start up brewer. They don't stock much stuff so they would have to do a special order.

The other shop is worse. I have gone there twice, and each time I leave saying never again. I even called one time to ask if they had what I needed and he said he wouldnt look until I got to the store. I got there and he wouldnt even leave behind the counter to help look in the store for a part.

Now I plan all my brews around online orders. I get great service from my malt supplier and I use a few difference online stores for specialty items like yeast, or miscellaneous brew equipment.
 
Is there really any downside besides shipping for online shopping?

It seems like they would turn inventory faster (although who knows
how big their warehouse is).
 
0202 said:
Is there really any downside besides shipping for online shopping?
Click to expand...


If you take advatage of the free or cheap shipping it is hard to beat the price. The downside is they mess up orders from time to time, and then you can't brew until they ship the correct item. I figure that is a small price to save for the amount of money I save.
 
0202 said:
Is there really any downside besides shipping for online shopping?

It seems like they would turn inventory faster (although who knows
how big their warehouse is).
Click to expand...

I honestly prefer online shopping. It's convenient, almost always cheaper, and I don't have to fuss with a store. I know what I want and how much I want to pay for it.

Some people really prefer the help that an LHBS provides. If I was a new brewer and didn't have HBT (or just prefered to talk in person) I would spend a lot more time in the store.

Given the choice I will almost always order something online, some situations warrant a visit to a shop but generally I go to the web. I seem to have hit and miss luck with specialty shops in person (LHBS, camera stores, computer stores) sometimes they are actually helpful but usually just smug and less knowledgeable than me. I think I may be slowly becoming a hermit :rockin:
 
How about this on the next trip to Freds:

I need, this this and this

Pull out your money or card

Pay

Walk out

No small talk and you get what you went there for.
 
Cougfan said:
I ordered 50 lbs of Great western 2 row and was planning on brewing this weekend. Thi is my first bulk grain order. I ordered a grain mill from Amazon that was supposed to be here by the weekend, but it turns out it won't be here until Monday. Now I am stuck without a way to grind the grain. I called Fred's and asked if he would grind the grain for me (offered to pay for it). He hesitated but said yes.
Click to expand...

Did he let you use his crusher even though you didn't buy the grain from him? You can M.F. the guy all you want, but he helped you in a pinch. IMO that has to count for something.
 
Quote:
I think I may be slowly becoming a hermit :rockin:


I agree with this statement. Sorry to hear about your LHBS issues, but it sounds like that situation may soon be solved by your mill and a new provider.

Personally living in the "Sticks", Sat TV and Sat Internet (as the only options)... having now begun brewing on my own... and building a Kegerator... I now have very little reason to leave the house for anything... Well Work.. but that will soon be fixed too!:ban: So I say why bother with the people you typically disslike and just order so that they bring it to your door when you need it and the people you do like will gladly stop by when you invite them over for a few "Home Brews" and some Fresh Home Made ZAAAA!

Cheers:mug:
 
So the Eastern WA, Northern Idaho area is in need of a good homebrew supply. Maybe I can swing that by the SWMBO when I retire there in a few years.

My LHBS owner is awesome. Grinds the grain for you, asks if you remembered everything and the prices are mostly comparable to the online guys.
 
0202 said:
Is there really any downside besides shipping for online shopping?
Click to expand...

Time & Shipping Charges. I can get new thermometer if I break one in less than an hour. Costs me about 20 minutes with of highway driving. Much less than the shipping.

The shop owner is cool. He gives me new & free dried yeast every other visit. I have also beefed up my yeast culture collection quite a bit. He'll unload his expired yeast on me for 75% off. I make starters so it no loss to me. Just cheap yeast.
 
0202 said:
Is there really any downside besides shipping for online shopping?

It seems like they would turn inventory faster (although who knows
how big their warehouse is).
Click to expand...

Local is faster and I like helping my local economy more than sending money to another state. Plus there is always free beer to try at my LHBS. Also I like to talk with the employees and get suggestions on my recipes and techniques.
 
My only problems with my "Local" HBS is that it is 80 miles away and there is no one to talk to about anything there. It's a specialty beer and wine shop that also stocks homebrew items but the owner is the only one that knows anything about brewing and he doesn't work the store. Mostly college age kids that don't give a rip.

I stop to pick up individual items when I am in the area but the online guys get most of my business.
 
I feel lucky to be here in Austin. Austin Homebrew is a great shop and they are always friendly, even when I do my best to confuse them. Sucks you guys have to put up with all of that just to brew. I say go bulk and start a yeast bank. Set yourself free from the "MAN".
 
My local is about a half hour away and only good for emergencies. The staff could care less whether you even came in, let alone spend $100 there. And that hundred could easily be $50 via midwest or someone else online. I pay the difference as a penalty for my lack of planning and I'm fine with that because it's my fault - but it's just not a good experience like I hear some other guys have with their LHBS.

-OCD
 
While there is no excuse for the guys demeanor or his close minded attitude toward a hobby with a million correct solutions to any problem... I do agree with his sentiments toward ingredients. I pay a little more to get my ingredients from my LHBS because he stocks the highest quality grains he can get his hands on. I know they are super fresh, well cared for, and of high quality.

I liken it to cooking. Food tastes a lot better with the best ingredients. Beer is the same way. Yes, you can make an award winning beer with any ingredient. However, how great could have that same beer been with the best ingredients available? I do not brew to save money, I brew to make the best product I can and to every once in a while wow a few beer snob friends with something special. If you goal is to do this hobby cheap, then that is different than me and all the power to you.

Brew what makes you happy.
 
I agree with crappy HB shops. My closest is 45-60 minutes away and the lady always acts annoyed that your'e bugging her buy buying stuff. And it's not just some lady that works there, She and her husband own it. I wouldn't complain too much about $55 for the Briess though. I don't think that's outlandish at all. My LHBS sells Grain for 2.00/lb and if you buy the whole 55lb bag, you get a whopping $0.25/lb discount bringing the bag to $95 dollars! I'm going to start going to Athens about an hour away to my my grain. Same bag for 45 bucks. I plan on getting a Mill and making a LARGE bulk Grain and Hop purchase. Starting my yeast bank with the yeast cake I currently have.
 
I am grateful the the LHBS in the Denver Area that I shop at have great customer service (The Brew Hut and Stomp Them Grapes) I wish I could get 2 Row for $35. I paid $60 last month for a #50 or Rahr 2 row. Marris and Vienna are about $80/sack. I agree about pumping $$ into my local economy but sometimes they do not have what I need. I got my BC from Brewmasters Warehouse because it was a great deal, fast shipping and great customer service. BMW was not sure if they sent me the instructions for my BC and emailed me the .pdf. It is not cost effective for me to buy bulk grains online.
 
IrregularPulse said:
I agree with crappy HB shops. My closest is 45-60 minutes away and the lady always acts annoyed that your'e bugging her buy buying stuff. And it's not just some lady that works there, She and her husband own it. I wouldn't complain too much about $55 for the Briess though. I don't think that's outlandish at all. My LHBS sells Grain for 2.00/lb and if you buy the whole 55lb bag, you get a whopping $0.25/lb discount bringing the bag to $95 dollars! I'm going to start going to Athens about an hour away to my my grain. Same bag for 45 bucks. I plan on getting a Mill and making a LARGE bulk Grain and Hop purchase. Starting my yeast bank with the yeast cake I currently have.
Click to expand...

I think I know the place you are talking about, if it is in Columbus. Have you visited the other shop called Gentiles? It is a pizza shop/LHBS/craft & domestic beer carryout. Pretty sweet setup, actually.
 
I used my LHBS because I was a noob to the hobby, and waiting to get my stuff in the mail wasnt cutting it for me. Now that I have a few brews under my belt, Ive come to realize that my LHBS is more geared towards their other clientelle' (sp) Cake designers.

Not that this is a bad thing, I have never received poor service from them, it just seems that their selection is kind of limited and they dont really seem to have brew knowledgeable staff. I still like to support them when I can, and if Im in a pinch. Luckily, there is another LHBS not far from me as well that I havent been to yet.
Might be worth a looksie just to see what they have to offer and how they compare.
-Me
 
1st off-this thread reminds me of Bart Simpson's strained relationship with the comic book guy.

I guess I'm pretty lucky. We've got 2 LHBSs in town and both have pros and cons. The 1st one is in a dingy shop and they brew (and I'm pretty sure distill) on-site. They are all very cool and will diagnose problems-or give you feedback-if you bring in a beer. If it's late in the day, they might offer you one of theirs. They are the opposite of know-it-alls though, and I'm pretty sure that they've given me faulty advice at times, just so I would figure it out on my own. Their standard response to "can I/should I do it this way or that way?" is usually "sure, why not?" Their attitude is great, and the place has great ambiance. The prices could be a little cheaper.

The other place is also a TV shop. This makes the whole feel a little more businesslike in that you likley won't end up debating optimal yeast strains over a cold one when there's little old ladies walking in wanting their TV fixed. He's a great guy though, and an accomplished brewer. He also runs specials (20% off everything this month to celebrate their 2nd year in business) and has a frequent buyer card ($10 off your order once you've spent $10 10 times). He fills 5lb. tanks for $10 and has an amazing selection of hops...before Christmas, he had a hop sale, and I was able to get 9 oz. of assorted awesome hops for $16.

I order online too, but these guys both do enough to deserve my business.
 
I think a lot of the bad LBHS owners get into it for the cool-factor, but in many cases these people wouldn't make it working for somebody else.

They start it for the right reasons, but seem to have a character flaw or personality that seems to doom their success. I know of several home brewers that would be awful shop owners.

The one I'm thinking about has BJCP but can't render any valuable advice. At one HB meeting he tried my milk-stout. He gets the last 2oz in the bottle after the beer has been passed around for a bit. Looks at the beer tastes it and then says its dirty tasting? Then points to the bits of yeast in the glass. I'm like duh? You got the dregs of naturally carbonated beer. The beer was pristine for the first several servings.

The guy is an a$$. I heard him tell somebody that their beer tasted like fecal matter. Why be a BJCP if you can't render helpful criticism?

To this day he has never brought beer to any of the meetings. Nobody can tell him his beer taste like crap!
 
The closest LHBS for me is a small collection of random/assorted supplies in the back of a hobby shop. If there is anyone else from the North Shore of MA, I am positive they will agree. I only go there to get small things like bottlecaps, Montrachet yeast (thanks EW!), but as far as larger things like hops, specialty grains, equipment, I use online retailers like MW or AHS

PS Forrest, I got my shipment yesterday from you guys and everything looks AWESOME. I love your extract recipe for the California Common!
 
I have posted here before about my annoyance with my LHBS guy for giving bad advice. I mentioned in that thread that he gouged on prices. For instance: $1.60 for 2 row regardless of quantity, $4 per ounce of hops etc. Generally his prices were about 50% more than I would pay elsewhere.

There has been an update on this. He has RAISED, yes raised, all of his prices by 50%! Now 2 row is $2.00 and 1 ounce of hops is $6 He gives a bulk discount down to $1.40 when you buy 50 lb sacks but otherwise his prices just piss me off to even think about.

I, too, consider anything I purchase from him to be penalty for my lack of foresight and planning.
 
My LHBS is pretty good for the area. Specialty stores usually fail in Wichita, and that they have been able to hang out as long as they have is really impressive.

The shop is located in a storefront that last saw a makeover in the 1970's.
The selection is not spectacular, the prices aren't the greatest, but they exist. They do cover the bases well, and have a decent supply of non-perishables.

Wichita is a fickle place. Everyone starts a project and never finishes it. We have had car shows that failed because it was too much of an effort to drive across town. We had a dedicated Tobacconist that went out of business because they moved to a more accessible location. The city generally sees itself as split into two pieces, East side and West side. The idea is that if you can't get somewhere in 15 minutes, you might as well not go. I'm surprised by the amount of Homebrewers that I've found from here.

As things are in my city, I'm glad that I even have an LHBS to shop at.
 
dontman said:
I have posted here before about my annoyance with my LHBS guy for giving bad advice. I mentioned in that thread that he gouged on prices. For instance: $1.60 for 2 row regardless of quantity, $4 per ounce of hops etc. Generally his prices were about 50% more than I would pay elsewhere.

There has been an update on this. He has RAISED, yes raised, all of his prices by 50%! Now 2 row is $2.00 and 1 ounce of hops is $6 He gives a bulk discount down to $1.40 when you buy 50 lb sacks but otherwise his prices just piss me off to even think about.

I, too, consider anything I purchase from him to be penalty for my lack of foresight and planning.
Click to expand...

That sucks! My LHBS sells 2 row for $45 for a 55 pound sack. Can't complain.
It sounds like you would be better off buying online and paying for shipping.
 
andyb0527 said:
That sucks! My LHBS sells 2 row for $45 for a 55 pound sack. Can't complain.
It sounds like you would be better off buying online and paying for shipping.
Click to expand...

I do shop online almost exclusively. I got four sacks from North Country last week. $42 for the 2 row delivered. Up to $56 for Maris Otter. ($20 of those bag prices is delivery.)

Did you catch the hops price? $6/ ounce? Outrageous. I just paid $1.30 / ounce for the same exact hops online. He is charging more than 4 times as much.

I consider him my yeast source only. And then only if I need a specific WL product that I have not used before. (Such as the Saison that I picked up yesterday.)
 
Schlenkerla said:
I know you mean. My old LHBS was a drag to visit when it was the only game in town. The guy wouldn't put prices on his stuff. Therefore you had to ask how much for each thing. He'd ***** and wine about you asking and then try to justify prices w/o me even complaining. Every time it was like this.

More than once I walked out of the place paying $125 with the original intent to spend about $75. I told him more than once that I have a budget and that keep to or hear SWMBO's wrath.

I couldn't ask questions because down played all of the science of the AG process. I soon figured out why.... I asked his opinion about some techniques only to learn he doesn't brew.

To add insult, he said brewing was stupid and its just cheaper to drink Natty Light. He wasn't joking either.

That was the last business he ever got from me. He is a dick with ears.

I later learned to my surprise that this guy is a supposed to be a genius. I ask why then is he always wining about the internet putting him out of business. Its no wonder to me. Genius my a$$. Smart he may be, but he can't relate to people, so he can't be too smart.
Click to expand...

Schlenkerla-

I also experienced your pain with that particular LHBS. That was the first place I went to buy supplies when I first started brewing last year. After a couple visits I was fed up with the poor service and prices which I later found to be very high. I have since started frequenting a newer LHBS and beer store elsewhere in the Des Moines area (I'm sure you know the one I am referring to) and have been very pleased with the owner's friendliness and prices on equipment and ingredients.
 
ISUBrew79 said:
Schlenkerla-

I also experienced your pain with that particular LHBS. That was the first place I went to buy supplies when I first started brewing last year. After a couple visits I was fed up with the poor service and prices which I later found to be very high. I have since started frequenting a newer LHBS and beer store elsewhere in the Des Moines area (I'm sure you know the one I am referring to) and have been very pleased with the owner's friendliness and prices on equipment and ingredients.
Click to expand...

Mark - Is awesome! I only wish I though of it sooner.
 
Man...I guess I'm lucky. We have a great LHBS in Tallahassee, and I've gotten great advice from all the guys that work there (I don't always follow it, with mixed results...hehe).

Anyway, online can almost always beat their prices, but it's ten minutes from my house, and I get good advice and folks that are happy to answer my questions (and...they like to brew! Crazy, eh??).

I don't have a lot of money to throw around, but regardless - I'd rather pay a little more, ask some questions, get some honest advice, and support locally owned business.

Now...if the LHBS sucked and the guys were pricks, I'd shop online exclusively. It's really all about the kind of business that they run.
 
I just realized that I am lucky enough to get 55 pounds of 2 row for 36 dollars. And I can get it as a certificate and pick it up with everything else I need when I go to the store. I am sure I'd be all over the online stores if my LHBS wasn't so great.

Also, I think they only buy Great Western and they use it for their production brewery. It is just fine.
 

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