Bought a KEY KEG. Help..Pours constant foam.

I'm in Canada and I bought a key keg of "Bad attitude Hobo IPA" from Sweden. Great beer by the way, kind of like the red laginitas with a slightly different character.

I bought it 4 days ago and the thing pours 100% foam. I have had it in my keg bridge at cool temps, 4-6 degrees Celsius.

On the website it says key kegs require higher PSI to pour so I set it to 20psi and its still foamy. Med carb was 15-20 high carb was 20-25 on the website.

Anyone have experience with these key kegs? I was thinking let it sit for a week and that maybe these key kegs dont handle being moved around as well..

How long is the beer line from keg to tap? 10feet or more?

5 feet.

I believe Raouliii is on the right track. Serving at 20, even 15 psi with five feet of beer line just asks for foam. The diameter and length of the beer line increase the resistance and I've never understood the why.. but longer beer lines, more resistance usually equals less foam.

Not exactly familiar with a key keg. I would say set the psi to the appropriate carb level for style, around 12. Vent and vent again...as the keg is over carbed now. 10ft lines will also help.

Hi

Just to post the entire list:

You could go up to as much as 20 feet of 3/16" beer line.

1/4" beer line would be longer still...

Stuff like Tee's or couplings in the line aren't a real good idea

Be sure that the keg *really* is at 2 to 4C. It's easy to measure one place and have stuff warmer somewhere else.

Let it sit for at least three days after moving it around or changing things.

No, I don't think any of that is likely the issue, but there's the whole list.

Bob

I have Corney kegs and sanky kegs. Key kegs are entirely different and do not follow conventional rules. The Co2 doesn't even come in contact with the beer ever. Co2 compresses in the outer liner between the housing and the bag. The beer is not over carbed unless it was over carbed before I got it. The 15-20 psi was from the manufacturer website, it also stated low psi 5ish would make foam and not pour right.

I appreciate the comments and support, just hoping to hear from someone with key keg experience due to its differences over any common keg type.

I dont have tee's or couplers, I let it sit for 5 days now, I run a commercial beer fridge, I have 1/4 lines IIRC. Normally I dont have foam issues unless I speed carb a keg and then its only foamy for a few seconds.

I had to look up key kegs and after seeing the mfr website not much was cleared up. The fitting seems where a foaming problem could be stemming from if it wasn't mated exactly right. Over carbed seems unlikely with the bag in a ball construction. If other beers pour ok from that line this one should too.

if you have 1/4" lines and they're only 5', it sounds to me like you need longer lines, or at least switch to 3/16 to give more resistance.
Personally, I would replace the line with at least 10' of 3/16 and try it.

krazydave said:

if you have 1/4" lines and they're only 5', it sounds to me like you need longer lines, or at least switch to 3/16 to give more resistance.
Personally, I would replace the line with at least 10' of 3/16 and try it.

Click to expand...

Hi

I'm running 20' of 3/16 and it seems to work very well up to at least 18psi.

Bob

brewingmeister said:

I had to look up key kegs and after seeing the mfr website not much was cleared up. The fitting seems where a foaming problem could be stemming from if it wasn't mated exactly right. Over carbed seems unlikely with the bag in a ball construction. If other beers pour ok from that line this one should too.

Click to expand...

I think your right as this was my thought too. There is a plastic seal you breech, and I'm thinking that plastic creates cavitatation when dispensing.

I will try a longer line. I left it for a few more days so I will try it tonight.

Still foam...piece of ****.. I can see the foam coming right out of the line from the begining. I think its the keg or system and not the tap or line.

Rupture in the bag??

HollywoodMX said:

I'm in Canada and I bought a key keg of "Bad attitude Hobo IPA" from Sweden. Great beer by the way, kind of like the red laginitas with a slightly different character.

I bought it 4 days ago and the thing pours 100% foam. I have had it in my keg bridge at cool temps, 4-6 degrees Celsius.

On the website it says key kegs require higher PSI to pour so I set it to 20psi and its still foamy. Med carb was 15-20 high carb was 20-25 on the website.

Anyone have experience with these key kegs? I was thinking let it sit for a week and that maybe these key kegs dont handle being moved around as well..

Click to expand...

Hi There,

Here comes your answer, directly from the KeyKeg company:
You just have to be sure that the pressure is up to 23 to 30 PSI.
It's just the other way around than with Stainless steel kegs.
Be carefull the bad Attitude beer is high carbonated.
See the overview in the document.

Any questions about KeyKeg left please send your question to [email protected]

View attachment dispense pressures KK.pdf

I think that was part of the problem, the bad attitude was over carbed and perhaps the key keg doesnt take kindly to it compared to stainless kegs as an over carbed stainless keg I just vent the pressure and it will pour well regardless of being over carbed. I went to key keg for support and they helped me out finally got it to pour today. I tried the 35 PSI and it didnt work. It's finally starting to pour well at 4 psi now.

Overall I lost a fair bit of beer to the foam unfortunately and an imported keg from Sweden to Canada wasnt cheap so it was expensive foam. The flip side is, if it wasnt in a key keg I dont think Canada would have seen it due to key kegs benefits of light weight, smaller and 25 cent deposit. Perhaps some of these great breweries from Europe need tighter rules in the kegging process for optimum usage/dispensing.

Hi

If you have the keg / beer / what ever at 30 psi you will need a *lot* of resistance in the beer line to serve at roughly zero psi out the spout. Unless you have the required resistance you will get foam and likely get lots of it.

How much line - there are calculators for it. Rough guess would be 20+ feet of 3/16"

Bob

Hello HollywoodMX,

I manage the supply of KeyKegs to North American brewers. I wish I had seen your posting sooner, but I'm glad my colleagues in Europe were able to help.

I have seen quite a few overcarbonated KeyKegs. This can be due to extra fermentable sugars and active yeast undergoing a refermentation during overseas transport. As stated in another reply, the "bag in ball" prevents any excess CO2 from being added during dispensing.

Then again, there are some beers that are just very active!

20 ft of 3/16 choker line is not necessary to get the beer to pour properly. Because the KeyKeg uses pressure to squeeze the beer out of the bag instead of a diptube, it creates additional resistance. This is the reason for applying additional pressure.

I have a kegerator and regularly put KeyKegs on tap - La Trappe, De Molen, Nogne, BrewDog, Mikkeller, etc. I use a European rototap with a flow control. This can slow down a lot of the active beers right at the tap, making them easier to pour.

I'll be glad to help if you have more questions!

Andy

ahalcarz said:

Hello HollywoodMX,

I manage the supply of KeyKegs to North American brewers. I wish I had seen your posting sooner, but I'm glad my colleagues in Europe were able to help.

I have seen quite a few overcarbonated KeyKegs. This can be due to extra fermentable sugars and active yeast undergoing a refermentation during overseas transport. As stated in another reply, the "bag in ball" prevents any excess CO2 from being added during dispensing.

Then again, there are some beers that are just very active!

20 ft of 3/16 choker line is not necessary to get the beer to pour properly. Because the KeyKeg uses pressure to squeeze the beer out of the bag instead of a diptube, it creates additional resistance. This is the reason for applying additional pressure.

I have a kegerator and regularly put KeyKegs on tap - La Trappe, De Molen, Nogne, BrewDog, Mikkeller, etc. I use a European rototap with a flow control. This can slow down a lot of the active beers right at the tap, making them easier to pour.

I'll be glad to help if you have more questions!

Andy

Click to expand...

Adding resistance is adding resistance. Saying that a choker or longer lines are not needed, then saying a flow control faucet helps, is contradictory. If the Key Keg is foaming when pressurized at or above carb level pressures, resistance needs to be added somehow. That can be a choker, more line, or a flow control faucet.

Aside from the new (beneficial) aspect to Key Kegs where the beer cannot be overcarbed, there is another important (detrimental) aspect to the new design-
If the Key Keg is under-pressured, a bubble/pocket will repeatedly develop above the beer, and since there is no dip tube, this will be the first thing pushed out every time causing foaming just like when switching between an newly emptied and full sanke keg, only it will happen repeatedly for the same Key Keg. This will also gradually depressurize (reduce the carb level) the beer.

Perhaps requiring labeling with the vols of CO2, or set of minimum pressures at a range of temps, for the particular beer in the Key Keg be put on the keg by the breweries. This might help in the acceptance of this new keg design.