brewing a GF Saison today

I am brewing this as we speak...

5.5 gal

CaCl 1.00 tsp
CaS04 0.50 tsp
Termamyl (thermo stable a amylase) 2.00 Tbsp
Buckwheat (Not-Toasted) 3.00 lb
Millet (lightly toasted) 6.00 lb
Tapioca Starch 4.0 oz
Biscut rice malt 1.50 lb
James Brown rice malt 6.00 oz

Mash at 175 to 180 for 90 min

lower temp to 140, then add...
SEBamyl L (endo amylase) 15.00 ml
ViscoSEB L (carbohydrase blend) 6.00 ml
SEBpro PL (protease) 6.00 ml

Mash at 140 for 90 min.
sparge.

Boil as below:

Magnum Hops 0.35 oz 60 min
Branched Chain Amino Acids 0.50 Tbsp 60
Fermax Yeast Nutrient 2.00 tsp 15
US Goldings Hop 1.00 oz 7
US Goldings Hop 1.00 oz 3
Amarillo Hop 1.00 oz 0 (Flame Out)
Honey 1.00 Lb 0 (Flame Out)


Yeast: Belle Saison

These are the numbers I am trying to hit...
Predicted
OG 1.053
FG 1.011
ABV 5.6
IBU 29
SRM 9.2

Just to be clear, only the rice is malted right? The millet and buckwheat are not? Will be interesting to see what the PPG is for those when using the enzymes instead of malted grains

dcbw, yes the millet and buckwheat are not malted. They are hulled grains like you would purchase in a bulk bin at a health food store.
The rice malts are from Eckert.

I ended up with ~5.6 gal of 1.042 wort, this is considerably lower than I anticipated based on my last few batches (but I don't really mind).

Every time I shorten the 175 F rest, my efficiency drops. I tried it again today (did 90 min instead of my usual 120 min), and had the same result. I am trying to shorten my brew day, but apparently that is not the place to try to save time.

I am thinking of trying to do an overnight mash at 175...or at least starting at 175, and finishing at ??? by morning. This should improve my efficiency and also shorten my brew day a bit.

Another factor may have been the buckwheat. I have never used quite that much un-malted buckwheat in a batch like this. It made the mash super viscous, bordering on snotty (reminded me of cooking Okra or Nopal). I am guessing that the recovery of sugars from buckwheat is much lower per lb than that of millet. In the future I will probably back off on the buckwheat and use just enough to achieve the mouthfeel I am looking for. I like to think of buckwheat as a 1:1 replacement for flaked wheat in a recipe, because they contribute similar attributes to the beer...but 3 lbs of wheat does not turn your mash into slime!

I've found if I treat my buckwheat as I do oats, things usually come out ok. Also, from what I've found there's only one way to achieve high efficiency from buckwheat... Long steeping periods with enzymes and low ph water. But, that's my experience. I'd like to see what others say.

My whole house smells like a fart!
This Saison is one stinky fermentation, lots of H2S.

I have had ciders off gass a lot of H2S, and they end up tasting great...so I am hopefull that this will "pass".

I have only used Belle Saison in cider in the past...can someone that has used it in an ale weigh in on this...Is the sulfur smell normal or do I have somthing strange going on?

I dont usually use a secondarry, but I will for this batch. Its going to need some time to air out.

Looks like you got almost 22 ppg, which seems pretty darn good for unmalted grain. Well done.

If mashing/steeping the unmalted grain over night does not do something bad, that could be nice. I try to prep as much as I can the day before like cracking the grain etc. to reduce the brew day.

You have probably posted before, but where are you purchasing the enzymes?

Legume said:

My whole house smells like a fart!
This Saison is one stinky fermentation, lots of H2S.

I have had ciders off gass a lot of H2S, and they end up tasting great...so I am hopefull that this will "pass".

I have only used Belle Saison in cider in the past...can someone that has used it in an ale weigh in on this...Is the sulfur smell normal or do I have somthing strange going on?

I dont usually use a secondarry, but I will for this batch. Its going to need some time to air out.

Click to expand...

I've never had Belle Saison have a strong sulfur smell while fermenting, and that's my go-to saison yeast... But my grain bill doesn't look anything like yours does either.

Chris,

The Termamyl can be purchaced at anapolis homebrew. They also sell AMG-300, whitch could be substituted for the SEBamyl L. These 2 are the most important to the process.

The tough ones to get are the protease and carbohydrase blend. I got them as samples from the manufacturer, but thats not really a reliable long term supply. Both enzymes are sometimes sold as health suplements. I may go that route when my stash runs out. I could probably convince my local homebrew shop to order them if I was willing to buy the whole quantity from them (whitch at this point I am not).

I racked this to the secondary today.
The sulfur was not very noticable at all, it has almost entirely disapated...another week or two in the secondary and it wil not be detectable.

The gravity was at 1.010, and it tasted decient.

This turned out rather well.
More pale in color than I expected, nice spicy and fruity yeast flavors.
I will definitely brew somthing similar again, but would cut the buckwheat down to 1 lb, and increase the millet. I also plan to use the french saison yeast 3711, I just need to find time to make a series of sarters to culture it away from its gluten containing media.

None of the sulfur smell that was so strong during fermentation is detectable in the finished beer.

I have been really enjoying this Saison, and will be brewing a similar(with some signifigant changes) recipe again tomorrow.

My recipe for tomorrow...a much hoppier version.

8 lbs millet
1 lb Masa (corn flour)
1 lb buckwheat
29 oz Biscut Rice malt
8 oz James Brown rice malt

this will be mashed with enzymes as described in the origional recipe (above).

Horizon Hop 0.4 oz 60 min
Centennial Hop 1 oz, 10 min
Amarillo Hop 1 oz, 5 min
1 lb honey, flame out
Centennial Hop 1 oz, flame out

Centennial Hop 1 oz, dry hop
Amarillo Hop 1 oz, dry hop

Wyeast 3711 (french saison), I made 3 sucessive starters to culture this yeast away from the gluten containing media that Wyeast uses.

The brew day went smoothly.

I ended up doing an overnight mash for the 180 F rest (my first attempt at an overnight mash).
The mash at 180 F, in my brew pot; was wrapped in a mylar/bubble wrap insulation, a wool army blanket, and a sleeping bag. It lost 12 degrees between 9:00pm and 5:30am.

I ended up substituting 1 LB of Tapioca starch for the 1 lb of Masa...some how I had run out of Masa.

I WAY overshot my starting gravity, this grain bill hit 1.065!

I was anticipating ~1.057 based on my previous results (none of witch involved an overnight mash).

It seems that the extended gelatinization mash dramatically improved my efficiency, it also shortened my brew day as it all happened while I was sleeping... I will do this again.

Hey Legume,

With this extended mash, did you note any sour flavor with the method? Just wondering if other beasts might get going over such a long time.

No sour flavors were detectable...but you have to remember that this was not an ordinary mash temp.

Because I use a thermaly stable alpha amylase for the first step of my mash, I can mash at very high temperatures.
I tucked it in at 180 F as I went to bed, and when I woke it up in the morning it was at 168 F.

There is little to no risk of lactobacillus infection at these high temperatures. Also, the wort has been nearly pasturized by the high starting temp, so the mash starts out with a very low bacterial cell count (compared to a mash at more "normal" temperatures).

My odd high temperature mash schedual turned out to be a very good candedate for an overnight mash, as it dramatically reduces the risk of lacto infection.

I bottled this today, my FG was 0.999!
I know that WY3711 is supposed to be a high attenuator, but this is lower than I expected.

I was shooting for a ~6% beer, but due to a higher than expected SG and a lower than expected FG...I came out >8%...oops.

The beer tastes great, I am looking forward to trying it carbonated and more mature in a few weeks.