RIS for Christmas - chocolate desired

I want to brew a RIS for Christmas this year. I want it big and chewy so I'll start it sooner than later. I've got about 40 all grain brews under my belt but never made a RIS. I'm excited to try.

I want to give it a rich chocolatey bready character (think a milano cookie) balanced with espresso and caramel flavors. I plan to use cacao nibs for a bit in the secondary, but want a complimentary grain bill. I think I'm overdoing it here - simple is my usual M.O. - but I want to layer flavors to give me the desired complexity. I want this to be a sipping, once-in-a-while RIS. Not a beer that you can drink pint after pint.

5 gal

17 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Munich
.5 lb biscuit
.5 lb Pale Chocolate
.5 lb Chocolate wheat
.75 lb Black malt
.75 lb Roasted Barley
.5 lb oats

I'll likely use WLP007 for its body and mouthfeel. I also plan to use Northern Brewer and Brambling Cross. for approx 90 IBUs.

Will the roasted character be too minimized here? Any other thoughts?

That looks fine. around 10% roast darker grains is perfect for an RIS that is going to age just 6 months. If you feel the need to simplify, I dont believe you will notice a 1/2 lb of oats or the biscuit (or probably the munich) with all the darker grains, id just up the MO and let that be the malt backbone.

You may wish to consider like 3% 120L type crystal or some dark invert sugar. Alot of people like the dark fruit burnt sugar in an RIS.

wlp007 is a good choice. and 90 IBUS is decent, especially if you are going to start drinking it around christmas, you dont want to go higher.

I'd consider cacao nibs if you want lots of chocolate flavor

How's this for simplification:

18 lbs Maris Otter
.75 lb Pale Chocolate
.75 lb Chocolate Wheat
.75 lb Black Malt
.75 lb Roasted Barley
.5 lb Special B
1 lb D-180

Will the 18 lbs of MO give me the breadi-ness I'm looking for?

I think a 156 mash will give me the sipping beer quality I'm looking for.

I would sub out some of your MO for Munich--somewhere around 3-5 lbs.

And I wouldn't mash that high. RIS usually has enough leftover body, even with a low mash temp. I would lower that to 151 or so.

Sounds delicious. I did a chocolate Robust Porter last year that was fantastic. I have a bourbon oaked RIS waiting for next Christmas.

I vastly recommend 2-5lb of Brown malt. You get lots of layers (milk chocolate, light coffee, nuts, some sweetness and body) from it. It's a bit like the cello section in a concert. Plenty of depth, noticeable if absent. It also ages in a slightly vinous fashion, like the nuttiness you get in an oloroso.

JKaranka said:

I vastly recommend 2-5lb of Brown malt. You get lots of layers (milk chocolate, light coffee, nuts, some sweetness and body) from it. It's a bit like the cello section in a concert. Plenty of depth, noticeable if absent. It also ages in a slightly vinous fashion, like the nuttiness you get in an oloroso.

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This is exactly what I'm going for. I've never used brown malt so I think I'll use about 2 lbs to complement the special B and lighter chocolate malts.

Just to be slightly contrary, you could keep the oats and give them a good heavy toast before crushing them up (its easier to toast "old fashioned oats" in the big flakes then crush them later, instant oats are smaller so toast too quickly).

When I toast oats for a brew I set the oven at 400F and spread them out as thin as I can manage on a big cookie sheet, and I baby them, I watch the oats really closely since you do not want to burn them. As soon as you see around the edges of the pan the oats browning, pull it out, stir the oats up on the pan really well and spread them back out and put them back in the oven. Repeat this till you get the desired browning. Watch the edges of the pan, the oats near the outside brown much quicker than the oats in the middle.

You'll get the body and creaminess from the oats still, and you'll build another layer of flavor (you can do this with any of the flaked adjuncts, cept maybe corn). The oats get really really nutty and bready, makes the kitchen smell fantastic. Though like said .5lb is a small addition in a RIS, I would go nuts and do 2-3lbs of oats if it was my own beer, but I love massive creamy oaty beers.

ArkotRamathorn said:

I would go nuts and do 2-3lbs of oats if it was my own beer, but I love massive creamy oaty beers.

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Any stuck mash problems with this approach? Do you get any oat flavor with this, or just a killer velvety mouthfeel?

This is a timely set of posts for me. I'm formulating a recipe for a RIS as well. I think a couple pounds of victory would be nice; more nutty flavor than biscuit malts bread flavor.

DonRikkles said:

Any stuck mash problems with this approach? Do you get any oat flavor with this, or just a killer velvety mouthfeel?

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I BIAB so I have a slower drain when I pull the bag but not "stuck". I think untoasted oats are too subtle for my palate but you do get that huge chewy mouth feel, even toasted they don't come out very strong. I was unhappy with 1lb additions in previous batches so I decided to just go balls out and started using 2lbs at a time. I don't know if this is necessary in a big RIS since the high alcohol content and higher finishing gravity will provide a lot of the body, but a small addition for flavor same never hurt anyone.

Anecdotally: I've had a rye stout I've made a couple times and so far everyone whose tried them say the first version was the best, which was the most kitchen sink version, if I check my notes I think there's 7 malts in the recipe. Every time I've attempted to simplify the recipe it's been "it's good but not as good as the original", so kitchen sinking a beer isn't necessarily bad.

I would have to do a very heavy adjunct beer like 60/40 Pilsner/toasted flaked oats to try and dig out the actual flavor contributions from oats. In something like a stout the oat flavors get beat up by the beefier roast/coffee/chocolate flavored.

instead of oats you can use "simpson golden naked oats". they are not oats at all but still add that nice creamy mouth feel and boost body a ton. i use it a lot in my cream ales, and its awesome. never have to worry about a stuck mash.

if you want to toast the oats etc, just try to use a ton of rice hulls to avoid that stuck mash!

let me know how it turns out!