saison ferment temps and strong alchohol off flavor

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donjonson

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Hello I am curious. I have read on these forums that the solvent like strong alcohol flavor comes from ferm temps that are too high. but I also read that a saison should be fermented at high temps and that hot alcohol flavor is considered an off flavor for that style. so how does one ferment at higher temps and avoid production of these bad hot, solventy, alcohol flavors?


thanks:rockin:
 
Yes, it could be one or both but more importantly, how much time has the beer conditioned for, it is possible you are sampling a beer that is just not ready yet and needs more time. How hot was hot? Fermentation temps, that is......

Did you make a starter? What yeast? How well did you aerate the wort prior to pitching. Stressed yeast can also cause these issues.
 
duboman said:
Yes, it could be one or both but more importantly, how much time has the beer conditioned for, it is possible you are sampling a beer that is just not ready yet and needs more time. How hot was hot? Fermentation temps, that is......

Did you make a starter? What yeast? How well did you aerate the wort prior to pitching. Stressed yeast can also cause these issues.
Click to expand...


The saison I just brewed actually turned out ok in terms of the "hotness" It was in primary for 5 weeks and it only has a very slight heat to it. I was refering actually to a trippel that I did about a year ago. but to answer you questiosna bout this saison see below

I did a omegang hennepin clone
OG 1.073
FG 1.009


  • I used wl1388 Belgian strong ale yeast only because the recipe I was following called for this yeast( 1 pack)
  • I did make sure to aerate the wort very well before pitching. while siphoning into fermenter I used one of those spreader tips. then I shook the carboy as hard as I could for about 5 mins.
  • no starter this could be a reason.
  • ambient temps in ferm chamber never got above 73F ( should have been higher but wrong time of year for a saison)
  • with these temps I would expect to get no hot alcohol flavors. but this could be that 5 weeks out from pitching is still too soon for an 8.5% abv beer. that being said this beer was supposed to ferment higher so I am guessing that the alcohol flavor would have been even stronger. if it had

so is it just because I did not do a starter? you think?
 
A lot depends on the yeast you use.

It also depends when you heat the yeast up. I like to pitch at the low end of the recommended range, or even slightly below. The hold it there for a day until things get started. Then slowly ramp up the temp. This way it is easier to control tempos. If you pitch warm the yeast can get out of control (too hot) to fast. Too hot , too fast will produce hot alcohol flavors.

True saison yeasts can handle the heat more so than some of the Belgian yeasts. 3724 is a good example. It can be ramped up to 90 and still not produce hot alcohol flavors as long as it is not ramped up too fast. On the other hand something like 1762 will be a fusel bomb if fermented too hot.
 
+1 to Beergolf's analysis and yes, a starter would be a good idea next time with that OG but it also looks like the beer is just young and I would anticipate those flavors conditioning out with enough time. 5 weeks is just too soon for an 8.5% beer:)
 
beergolf said:
A lot depends on the yeast you use.

It also depends when you heat the yeast up. I like to pitch at the low end of the recommended range, or even slightly below. The hold it there for a day until things get started. Then slowly ramp up the temp. This way it is easier to control tempos. If you pitch warm the yeast can get out of control (too hot) to fast. Too hot , too fast will produce hot alcohol flavors.

True saison yeasts can handle the heat more so than some of the Belgian yeasts. 3724 is a good example. It can be ramped up to 90 and still not produce hot alcohol flavors as long as it is not ramped up too fast. On the other hand something like 1762 will be a fusel bomb if fermented too hot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for everyone's input!

how fast is too fast? raise a degree a day or is that too slow?
 
You can raise it a few degrees a day. The critical time is the first few days. If it gets too hot before a few days it can produce fusels.
 

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