Safale S-04 fermentation temp

I am going to brew a porter this weekend with Safale S-04 yeast. The manufacturers site says fermentation up to 75°F is OK. Since my basement is about 70°F - 72°F, I suspect my fermentation temp will be close to the 75°F. Does anyone have experience with this yeast at this temp? Does it have strong fruit esters? I am trying to avoid the need for a swamp cooler.

I live in GA where it is hot as hell right now. I keep the temp as cool as I can, but frequently hits 73-75... Sometimes 78... I just have to compensate with more time to ferment it out. I don't get any off flavors unless I'm going high gravity. Anything slightly below 75 should be fine IMHO

I would think your fermentation vessel might actually get a bit higher than ambient. Yeast kick out some heat, strangely enough - up to 10 degrees above ambient is the number I've seen around here. Might want to think about a swamp cooler setup (bucket of water, t-shirt, and a fan).

I prefer this yeast in the 65 range ambient. You more than likely will have esters, but they aren't all that bad. S-04 is a tasty yeast, and its the one I cut my teeth on years ago. I used it for pretty much everything in the 60-65 range, but I did have a beer that fermented almost overnight at 70 deg. I drank it, it was good, but more esters than I preferred.
Its fast, and drops fast too.

My experience fermenting S-04 at high temps was not a good one. I made Biermuncher's Oktoberfast, and fermented between 68-70, as that was what temperature my basement was at the time. The beer had a terrible apple cidery taste. I can only assume that this was esters from the yeast fermenting so warm.

I made a Dead guy clone and accidentally fermented at 80 (that was bucket temp ambient was 75) on the first day and ended up with a harsh alcohol burn, I would recommend trying to keep the temp low.

Rubes said:

My experience fermenting S-04 at high temps was not a good one

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+1 to this! I made an IPA with 04 fermented at 68-70 ambient, had the most awful overly yeasty taste to it. All my IPA's brewed at this temp with 05 have never had this problem.

If you don't have a way to keep the temp down I'd strongly suggest going with 05.

I am brewing a porter, is there a big difference in the 04 vs 05 for this beer? Does the 05 have less Esters at 70 - 72 degrees? Not sure what fruit esters will be like in a porter.

S-04 tends to generate a lot of heat as it hits peak fermentation - a good bit higher than ambient temps - I've heard some people claim up to 8 degrees higher. I had mine at about 64 degrees ambient and still couldn't control the wort temp - gave off too many esters for my liking. Personally I wouldn't use this one without at least a swamp cooler. If you are going dry yeast, US-05 should be fine though. Good luck!

I will say that S-04 is fun to watch. If you ferment in a carboy you can watch the insanity inside!

kevinb said:

Does the 05 have less Esters at 70 - 72 degrees?

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Absolutely. US-05 will be fairly clean even as high as 70, but S-04 will throw significant esters.

You should really consider a simple swamp cooler setup, or anything really, to control your temperature. I've always had better success with beers fermented in the high 60s than low 70s.

Grantman1 said:

I will say that S-04 is fun to watch. If you ferment in a carboy you can watch the insanity inside!

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I've not seen anything dance like Nottingham.

I did an S04 half-batch that's 36 hours in right now, spent the first 20 hours at 72-74 degrees before I got it in a larger swamp cooler with an ice jug and a fan. Now it's mid-60s according to the Fermometer, hopefully it will clean up okay. It's a red ale with some good malt. I used the first half of the packet on a dry Irish stout, lots of roast, so again I'm hoping any high temp flavors will be subdued.

Sounds like I should use a swamp cooler. I have always been hesitant to try. It seems like putting the carboy in ice water will make it too cold. Questions:
-Can I still rely on the thermometer stuck on the side of the carboy for the wort temp assuming it is above the level of the ice water?
-With a swamp cooler and a porter, am I better of using the 04 yeast?
-How long do I need to keep the swamp cooler going for? Assuning I use the 04, it sounds like it will ferment fast. I assume I can stop adding ice once the real active fermantion slows down?

If it helps, this is my grain bill
5.5# light LME
1.1# Wheat LME
160z Chocolate malt
8 Oz victory malt
8 Oz flaked barley
1 Oz Nugget hops - 60 min
1/2 Oz willametter Hops - 10 Min
1/2 Oz willametter Hops - 1 Min
Yeast - Safale S-04

S-04 is my most used dry yeast. It has great flavor, is ultra fast, and drops very clear. I always temp control my ales at 65F. You could potentially get strong fruity flavors, so why not play it safe and ferment under 70? If you still get a strong fruity aroma, and I have from time to time, let it sit a few more days (4 or 5 after fermentation is complete) until the aroma dies down.

onthekeg said:

I prefer this yeast in the 65 range ambient. You more than likely will have esters, but they aren't all that bad. S-04 is a tasty yeast, and its the one I cut my teeth on years ago. I used it for pretty much everything in the 60-65 range, but I did have a beer that fermented almost overnight at 70 deg. I drank it, it was good, but more esters than I preferred.
Its fast, and drops fast too.

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I love this strain- but also like onthekeg, it's best under 68 degrees. I prefer it at 64ish for a clean flavor.

kevinb said:

I am brewing a porter, is there a big difference in the 04 vs 05 for this beer? Does the 05 have less Esters at 70 - 72 degrees? Not sure what fruit esters will be like in a porter.

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If I had to ferment at 72, I'd use the S05 as it is much cleaner at 70-72 degrees than S04.

I agree with the above, 04's a great yeast, but it's best in the low to mid 60's, IME. If you can't get temps down there, go for something like 05, it's much cleaner at the temps you're talking about. 04 will get quite fruit-y (and not in a good way) much above 68-69 degrees.

Thanks again for the help. After a quick trip to Walmart and $10 invested, I am going to try a swamp cooler.

SilverZero said:

I've not seen anything dance like Nottingham.

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Really? I'm doing a SMaSH with Notty right now and it was absolutely boring to watch. Small krausen, not a lot of churning. Maybe the temp (59 controlled) had something to do with it.

borden said:

Really? I'm doing a SMaSH with Notty right now and it was absolutely boring to watch. Small krausen, not a lot of churning. Maybe the temp (59 controlled) had something to do with it.

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Probably, I have to ferment with a swamp cooler and it's a full-time job to keep it down to 66F if I'm lucky. But it gets hopping around 68, IME.

I agree on the full time job part. This cooler is making we nuts.

Look for Yooper's swamp cooler build if you can find it. I can't find the link at the moment.. I do something similar, and it's not as much work to maintain cool temps.

SilverZero said:

Probably, I have to ferment with a swamp cooler and it's a full-time job to keep it down to 66F if I'm lucky. But it gets hopping around 68, IME.

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kevinb said:

I agree on the full time job part. This cooler is making we nuts.

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For me, if I start with wort at the desired temp, and the water in the cooler matches that, it's a bottle here and there. I have to change out a couple ice bottles maybe 3 times a day during active fermentation. I'd imagine it'd be a bit harder to get temps down this way if they were high to begin with, but if you start out in a cooler, and have it set up properly, it shouldn't be much work to maintain low-mid 60s in a ~75 degree room. I try to keep the water in the swamp bucket at the same level as the beer in the fermenter, and in the summer when it's hot, I use a towel around the fermenter as a wick.

You need to get yourself a Ranco controller and a Craigslist fridge or freezer (for when its time to do lagers). Every single brew I do, fermentation is within a degree or two of exactly where I want it to be. Dial in and forget.

Got my swamp cooler going. I agree, now that I have the carboy cooled to the mid 60's it does not seem like it will be too bad. Check it out (there are bottes in there, just hiding). Also got a blow off line after my previous disasters. I also found a way to get a long temp probe directly into the wort so I can see waht is going on.

kevinb said:

Got my swamp cooler going. I agree, now that I have the carboy cooled to the mid 60's it does not seem like it will be too bad. Check it out (there are bottes in there, just hiding). Also got a blow off line after my previous disasters. I also found a way to get a long temp probe directly into the wort so I can see waht is going on.

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Looks like that setup'll work great. If you have trouble keeping temps down, try wrapping a towel around the carboy and letting it hang into the water so it wicks it up over the carboy. Works really well, you can also blow a fan at the wet, towel covered carboy and you may find that you don't need to do much, if any changing of ice bottles.

looks like a pretty nice setup there with the temp probe and everything!

The temp probe directly in the wort works great so I can see what is going on. Now I just need to master the temp control. I can only keep it between 62 and 68.

kevinb said:

Now I just need to master the temp control. I can only keep it between 62 and 68.

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This is why I switched to using an ice chest as the swamp cooler. You get less fluctuation in the water temps..

Grantman1 said:

S-04 tends to generate a lot of heat as it hits peak fermentation - a good bit higher than ambient temps - I've heard some people claim up to 8 degrees higher. I had mine at about 64 degrees ambient and still couldn't control the wort temp - gave off too many esters for my liking. Personally I wouldn't use this one without at least a swamp cooler. If you are going dry yeast, US-05 should be fine though. Good luck!

I will say that S-04 is fun to watch. If you ferment in a carboy you can watch the insanity inside!

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My ambient temperature is 59 degrees and I pitched S-04 in my IPA when the wort was at 68 degrees. Even with the ambient temperature it is fermenting nicely at 66 with my temperature control turning on the fridge every now and then to keep it down. When I had the fridge off it was up to 68.

And yes, watching this ferment is like watching a lava lamp. So much activity going on inside! Use a blow off!

Just adding to the record here. I'm brewing a pale ale using S-04. I pitched at about 60F and allowed it to rise to 64 over the first 24 hours. It's bubbling away nicely at 64/65'ish and after 12 hours of action (36 hours since pitch) I raised it to 67, just in case it felt like stalling near the end of its course. I used mostly 2-row with a long acid/protein rest then a 30 min 143F followed by a 30 min 156F. RO water with a few salts

I'm not sure if the ferm chamber even turned on through all of this. Sitting at 66F and the activity has slowed down a little since this morning. I think tomorrow morning I will set it to 65F and leave it for a couple days before cold crashing

When s04 and us05 hit peak fermentation your going to ferment 10-15 degrees hotter than ambient temp. When using s04 I keep my beer between 62-65 degrees. 75 degrees is way too hot for any ale yeast. You might get lucky at that high of temp, but if you want to make consistently good tasting beer you must have control over fermentation temperature! Relying on ambient temp and hoping for the best is foolish.