Caramel Apple Hard Cider

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How would you compare naturally fermented cider against the original recipe? That's on my "to-do" list in the fall for sure.
 
Cheesy_Goodness said:
How would you compare naturally fermented cider against the original recipe? That's on my "to-do" list in the fall for sure.
Click to expand...

The original recipe is a great dry cider. The naturally fermented cider is also dry but has a nice tartness too it. I wouldn't call it sour but its almost there... I've wanted to do this for a couple years and finally found a place through a local home brew club. Easiest brew ever ;) LOL!

Every year the club will come back for their yearly fills and they bring the past year or years ciders. All different variations which is really cool! One guy even ferments his with strains of brett! That one really peaked my interest so I think I'll be grabbing a lot more this year and playing around with a few things...
 
Update to my "dry-hop" cinnamon stick experiment -- it works great. :) I took a gallon to a local convention (ShudderCon) in Chattanooga where it got rave reviews, even though it was still. Very good cinnamon flavor. I probably ought to take the stuff in the keg and transfer it off the cinnamon sticks, but I'm lazy. :) I will say I'm getting extra strong cinnamon flavor
 
Recently cut this down to a two gallon batch. Used Notty per the directions. NOT per the directions, I let it sit around for about a month before bottling. Sometimes life gets in the way of what really matters, you know? ;)

When I checked OG: 1.000! 8.9%! I didn't think Notty would go this low. The SG sample tasted dry but AWESOME. I added the two cans of FAJC and appropriate amount syrup as per the recipe, and carefully watched my bottles for the fast bottle-carbing mentioned, fearing bottle bombs, standing by ready to pasteurize those suckers like firefighters sit around waiting for the call.

It's day 8 and everything is still flat as a board. It's an awesome still cider, but the wife wants the bubbles!

I've read that Notty doesn't shut down until 12%... is 9% sitting around for a couple weeks enough to nuke it? Did I just let it sit too long and everything went dormant, meaning a longer time to bottle carb? Or is it dead?
 
I have moved on to letting it sit for a full 4 weeks myself now to getting completely dry. I'll be honest, I am considering just doing that consistently in the future without any additional stuff other than 5 oz of dextrose for normal carbing. It's the closest thing to Strongbow I've ever tasted that I've made.

Anyhow, I need to ask about the temp where the bottles are stored. If it's not 68 - 72, I have noticed this doesn't move much.
 
pwortiz said:
Anyhow, I need to ask about the temp where the bottles are stored. If it's not 68 - 72, I have noticed this doesn't move much.
Click to expand...

The pantry is "on the sunny side of the street" here. So, temps should be pretty good, along the lines of 75-78. The AC is set at 75 and interestingly enough when I'm checking the temperatures of room-temp stuff on brew day it's pretty close to that. Add a few degrees for the sun coming through the small pantry window and a lack of an AC duct in there and things are nice and warm.

The last bottle had something that I'd ALMOST call carbonation in it. I'm just going to move them to a plastic bin to protect the pantry from a bottle bomb, grit my teeth, and move to checking a bottle every few days.

:mug:
 
OK, watch 'em close ;) Maybe it just took a little to get the little guys awake again...kinda like us recharging after a good night out?

I've had it sit for a while before and then all the sudden every bottle was carbed almost a bit too much (my new dishwasher didn't pasteurize as well as I expected).

Good luck!
 
So I made this and once it got down to 1.010, I put it in the fridge. I didn't have a free carboy so I couldn't rack it off the yeast cake. I still added the 5 crushed campden tablets. Is this going to do anything to the yeast or do I really need to rack? If I need to rack now, should I add more campden? I'm planning on kegging this but there's a chance I would bottle some samples from the keg.
 
So I'm about two weeks into my fermentation. I ended up pitching some lalvin EC-1118 yeast two weeks ago, but wasn't getting much fermentation (or so I thought) since I wasn't getting any action through the airlock (yeah yeah I know its not a good way to check fermentation). Anyways I pitched another EC-1118 yesterday and still wasn't getting any airlock action. So I drew a little bit up and checked it with my homemade hydrometer and its right around 1.000.

Here's the strange part. It doesn't taste alcoholic at all. Instead of the 2lbs of sugar I've added ~3lbs and it really doesn't taste alcoholic to me (in fact it tastes quite good), so I'm wondering if I have something else going on. So I add another pound of sugar to my brew and here's what happened.

https://youtu.be/M7Lm3RoMAtA

So is it possible that I have something else growing or does that have to be yeast?
 
TwoJollyRanchers said:
So I'm about two weeks into my fermentation. I ended up pitching some lalvin EC-1118 yeast two weeks ago, but wasn't getting much fermentation (or so I thought) since I wasn't getting any action through the airlock (yeah yeah I know its not a good way to check fermentation). Anyways I pitched another EC-1118 yesterday and still wasn't getting any airlock action. So I drew a little bit up and checked it with my homemade hydrometer and its right around 1.000.

Here's the strange part. It doesn't taste alcoholic at all. Instead of the 2lbs of sugar I've added ~3lbs and it really doesn't taste alcoholic to me (in fact it tastes quite good), so I'm wondering if I have something else going on. So I add another pound of sugar to my brew and here's what happened.

https://youtu.be/M7Lm3RoMAtA

So is it possible that I have something else growing or does that have to be yeast?
Click to expand...

I think you just need to simmer down a bit :)

You pitched yeast onto an already fermented batch of cider. Not sure if that will do any harm.

And the bubbles you saw are just co2 coming out of solution because you gave it a nucleation site with the sugar. Fermentation will kick up again now that you've added more sugar.
 
TexasWine said:
I think you just need to simmer down a bit :)

You pitched yeast onto an already fermented batch of cider. Not sure if that will do any harm.

And the bubbles you saw are just co2 coming out of solution because you gave it a nucleation site with the sugar. Fermentation will kick up again now that you've added more sugar.
Click to expand...

Haha thank you for your reply. The thing that I found weird was that there was never any krausen or airlock action at any point in the past two weeks. That along with the very rapid initiation and termination of fermentation when I add more sugar, and on top of that a lack of alcoholic taste got me a little confused. Perhaps that's just the nature of this yeast strain though.

I guess this bodes well for my final product that it tastes so good before the caramel and apple concentrate eh?
 
TwoJollyRanchers said:
Haha thank you for your reply. The thing that I found weird was that there was never any krausen or airlock action at any point in the past two weeks.
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Same with my batches. Seems tame and a bit slow, but 8.9% ABV don't lie!

Ike
 
Has anyone made this without the fajc?..

This stuff can not be found in my city.
I've hit every grocery store in the city.....honestly every single one
Every walmart , any store that carries groceries....it's just not sold here in Canada
 
Soundwav said:
Has anyone made this without the fajc?..

This stuff can not be found in my city.
I've hit every grocery store in the city.....honestly every single one
Every walmart , any store that carries groceries....it's just not sold here in Canada
Click to expand...

What about making your own concentrate? I've never done it but maybe it's an option:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=347175
http://www.ehow.com/how_8203203_make-apple-juice-concentrate-freezing.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/Juice-Concentrate-from-Fruit/#step1
 
I kegged my cider last night and when I tasted the sample from the hydrometer, there was definitely some sulfur taste to it. Is there a good way to get rid of this? I took another taste after adding the syrup and it wasn't as noticeable but still there. I could up the cinnamon/FAJC to see if that will offset it (I think it could use more anyway). I've also read about bubbling CO2 through the beer post to remove some of the sulfur. Any suggestions??? I'm hoping RDWHAHB is the answer!

I cold crashed it when the FG got down to 1.010. Then added campden tablets (one too many - 5 for a 4 gallon batch). Before adding the campden, it tasted pretty good. A little tart but no sign of sulfur. Could the yeast have kept working for a little while after crashing and get stressed due to the low temperature? Was it too many campden tablets?
 
Soundwav said:
Has anyone made this without the fajc?..



This stuff can not be found in my city.

I've hit every grocery store in the city.....honestly every single one

Every walmart , any store that carries groceries....it's just not sold here in Canada
Click to expand...


Toronto here. I have only found it at no frills let me know if you wan me to post specific store locations
 
I have found that FAJC is more available in the summer months than in the fall. Don't know why. Which reminds me, I need to lay in a supply for the fall pressing season :)
 
Not yet...but I'm using the BASE recipe now for just about all my ciders (and Cysers). I've started using 1pt of whatever juice concentrate I think might work. Currently, I used the base, let it get to 1.000 for an ~8% and added 2 lbs honey along with a pint of Tart Cherry Juice concentrate. Force carbed.

It's a favorite of all that try it. Black Cherry, Black Berry, Raspberry....I don't know if I can find these all in concentrates, but I expect to basically keep up this method. Your peach idea could fit right in there!
 
Yeah... Right now there's roadside stands selling jugs of peach cider. Except it's about $15/gallon! I bought one gallon. May try just making a gallon of hard peach cider. :)
 
pwortiz said:
Currently, I used the base, let it get to 1.000 for an ~8% and added 2 lbs honey along with a pint of Tart Cherry Juice concentrate. Force carbed.
Click to expand...

NOT trying to ask a stupid question, but is the cherry juice concentrate real cherry juice, or is it apple juice "with natural" and/or "artificial flavors" that make it taste like cherry?

I ask because most of the frozen stuff I can find here is actually apple juice that is flavored like other stuff. WHICH, I'm not sure how it will react to the yeasty beasties.

Thinking about it now, if it was going in just for finishing, it'd only be fermented a bit before being pasteurized, so... maybe...
 
skydiver30960 said:
NOT trying to ask a stupid question, but is the cherry juice concentrate real cherry juice, or is it apple juice "with natural" and/or "artificial flavors" that make it taste like cherry?

I ask because most of the frozen stuff I can find here is actually apple juice that is flavored like other stuff. WHICH, I'm not sure how it will react to the yeasty beasties.

Thinking about it now, if it was going in just for finishing, it'd only be fermented a bit before being pasteurized, so... maybe...
Click to expand...

Definitely not stupid question. Might help to clear up some others' questions as well. I don't use frozen concentrate in this instance, but, rather this stuff: http://kingorchards.com/product/pint-16oz-tart-cherry-juice-concentrate/
^That's the real deal. It. Is. Phenomenal.

I guess I sort of have a hybrid Cyser because I used the 2lb dextrose (prior to fermentation) in the recipe with the original 4.5 gallons of juice instead of 2lb honey.

I put the 2lb honey in with the juice at "bottling/kegging" and that's where I get the Cyser nomination.

That said. This stuff is highly appreciated by all. So the taste is there. I would consider entering this into a competition...might have to do that.

1 tip for the honey/juice addition. I will heat the juice and honey just enough to make sure the honey will mix well in the keg/bottling bucket.
 
NEXT QUESTION:

I have about 4.5 gallons of this in primary. My first was a one gallon "test batch" that came out at 8.9% ABV and got very good reviews, other than a couple of complaints about it being a little hot on the nose (I was one of the complainants, in fact). It didn't seem to be "hot in the mouth" (which I'd take to mean fusels) and definitely DID have the "hot in the belly" (which I'd take to mean that 8.9% is legit). SO, all that is good. But, when you tipped the glass to your lips, your snoot would definitely get a whiff of "DANG!"

A friend noted that if you poured into a glass, walked away from it for about 5-10 minutes, then returned to finish it, that the strong odor was gone and she loved it. I never let mine sit around long enough to test the theory :mug:.

Does it just need to age a bit more? If so, do it in primary or age it in secondary off the cake? Or is it just a case of 9% cider off-gassing some of that 9% and nothing can be done about it?
 
If you let it dry out for 4 weeks, my question would go toward the ferm temp. How hot did you let it get? I have found with Notty that if you keep it below 72 during fermentation, you are generally freed from that issue.

That said, I have had beverages that benefited from airing out for a bit. I've even recommended letting the thing breathe like a red wine for at least 15 minutes.

All based on experience - but as we all know, every experience is different! Try it :D
 
pwortiz said:
If you let it dry out for 4 weeks, my question would go toward the ferm temp. How hot did you let it get? I have found with Notty that if you keep it below 72 during fermentation, you are generally freed from that issue.

That said, I have had beverages that benefited from airing out for a bit. I've even recommended letting the thing breathe like a red wine for at least 15 minutes.

All based on experience - but as we all know, every experience is different! Try it :D
Click to expand...

65-67 degrees for the first couple weeks, then since I figured most of the crying was over I bounced it to the closet (around 75) for the next two weeks. This test batch was one of the first brews made in my new-to-me ferm chamber, so I'm feeling pretty good about how the temperature held.

I'll see how the next couple batches turn out. If I have to I'll start serving it in brandy snifters or something like that, and go "sophisticated." PINKIES OUT!
 
I sure as heck wouldn't object to having some in a snifter with a pinkie out! :D

Heck, pour it over ice. I did that with my last batch with as hot as it's been here. Even cut a few glasses with water (usually sparkling as not all bottles carbed evenly).

PROST!
 
OK, my second batch of this came out with significant improvements, and one development:

The first batch, I used a cloudy honeycrisp (bottled) juice and didn't use pectic enzyme, so of course the batch was pretty much opaque. THIS batch I used a clear juice and did use the enzyme.

Good news: the batch is nicely clear and tastes AWESOME. SO good.

Bad news: each time I pour a bottle, the combination of yeast residue and cinnamon ends up rolling around in the glass looking like loogies in the cider. It doesn't distribute evenly and make the cider hazy like it would in a beer; instead it clumps together and has a no-kidding look of snot to it. No off flavors, no texture issues, it just looks TERRIBLE. Anyone else ever had this problem? Will the sediment eventually settle to the bottom of the bottle and stay there?
 
skydiver30960 said:
OK, my second batch of this came out with significant improvements, and one development:



The first batch, I used a cloudy honeycrisp (bottled) juice and didn't use pectic enzyme, so of course the batch was pretty much opaque. THIS batch I used a clear juice and did use the enzyme.



Good news: the batch is nicely clear and tastes AWESOME. SO good.



Bad news: each time I pour a bottle, the combination of yeast residue and cinnamon ends up rolling around in the glass looking like loogies in the cider. It doesn't distribute evenly and make the cider hazy like it would in a beer; instead it clumps together and has a no-kidding look of snot to it. No off flavors, no texture issues, it just looks TERRIBLE. Anyone else ever had this problem? Will the sediment eventually settle to the bottom of the bottle and stay there?
Click to expand...


Yes, the snot is a result of using ground cinnamon.. I switched to cinnamon extract and the problem goes away.

Ive made prob 10 batches of this. I use Nottingham, but I've not used pectic enzyme, always had good results with clarity and the Nottingham makes a nice solid yeast cake that doesn't get swirled up much when you pour.. Jus some ideas.. Pröst!!
 
skydiver30960 said:
OK, my second batch of this came out with significant improvements, and one development:

The first batch, I used a cloudy honeycrisp (bottled) juice and didn't use pectic enzyme, so of course the batch was pretty much opaque. THIS batch I used a clear juice and did use the enzyme.

Good news: the batch is nicely clear and tastes AWESOME. SO good.

Bad news: each time I pour a bottle, the combination of yeast residue and cinnamon ends up rolling around in the glass looking like loogies in the cider. It doesn't distribute evenly and make the cider hazy like it would in a beer; instead it clumps together and has a no-kidding look of snot to it. No off flavors, no texture issues, it just looks TERRIBLE. Anyone else ever had this problem? Will the sediment eventually settle to the bottom of the bottle and stay there?
Click to expand...

Here's the link to the revised recipe with the suggestion for cinnamon extract to avoid the snot you mention...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=4477665
 
Thanks to you both! So many good changes. I'd been thinking about cutting back on the FAJC in the next batch myself... and will definitely go for the extract as well.

Again, THANKS!
 
I just finished bottling mine today. Put 4 cans of ajc in and love the taste. I made the carmel sauce yesterday day and put it in a bomber in the fridge. When I poured the sauce in I left the last half inch in the bottom thinking maybe the cinnomon settled out a bit. After finishing I dumped the bomber to clean it and a huge glob came out so hopefully I won't have the snot issue. Great recipe can't wait to pasturize and toss a few back.
 
Dumb newbie question. How long do carbed versions last (shelf life) not around yor friends. Thanks just trying to brew for the first times and have no experience.
 
Someone might could jump in here with a sciency (better) answer, but I'm not sure there's much of a difference in the lifespan of an average batch.

If it's carbonated, the CO2 would probably keep any nasties out longer. If it's still, then you probably stabilized it to kill any baddies that do make their way in there from taking hold, so either way you're safe.

Within a year (probably two), I don't believe there's a real noticeable difference.
 
Anyway this could ferment down to 1.010 in a week or am I struggling to read a hydrometer(first brew)? I tried to follow the recipe to the letter.
 
Ok question with the update on page 21, if I am kegging would I still use the camped tabs?
 
If it still has residual sugar there is still a chance of fermentation starting again.

You would use a combination of potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate to prevent this.

That being said, I have kegged this cider and many others without using sulfite or sorbate. Keeping it cold usually prevents the yeast from starting again. I have had some kick back up and over carb the cider in the keg but it is as easy as releasing the extra co2 to fix that.
 
So I let mine go 15 days and it's dropped to 1.000 should I increase the priming. It is also still bubbling away once every 15 seconds or so.
 
You sure it is at 1.00? That would mean it was dry and bubbling should not be happening unless something like a malolactic fermentation has started.

If you are bottle conditioning the priming sugar measurements are based on volume. Increasing those would increase the volume of co2 and could cause bottle bombs
 

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