Keg issue too long of lines?

I know there are a million posts on balancing keg systems but I'm having a hard time finding one on too long of line length. I'm consistently getting too much head on my pours. I've set and forget and force carbed so I know it's not over carbing. I have 10 ft of 3/16 inside of a regular draft tower kegerator. Can my line length be way longer than needed and that's why I'm getting foamy pours out of each and every keg? I've had regulator from 10-15 psi at around 40 degrees. Any help or suggestions would be great. I'm about to carb a saison for my daughters birthday party and would like this ongoing problem finally fixed. Thanks!

There is hardly such a thing as too long. In my experience foam is typically caused by too short of lines, serving beer at a lower psi than it was carbed, or line temps higher than keg temps. How are you cooling the tower?

Edit: ^^D-train beat me to it!

In my experience 10ft isn't too long. I'm using bev-seal ultra with 20ft lines (3/16") and it works awesome...although I think there's less resistance in the bev-seal stuff than a normal vinyl line. I was initially using roughly 10ft vinyl at about 13psi which worked well also.

I don't have a tower though, are you cooling the tower? I think that a lot of folks here find that if they don't have a fan pushing cold air into the tower the beer is too warm in the tower and causes lots of foam...

Ideally, 6' provides the correct restriction for serving beer in the 8-14 psi range. I'm sure others who are more experienced will chime in but this is the rule of thumb I use for my Kegerator

Edit: this is the advice more beer.com gives for their tubing, that's what I went off of.

cyberbrew said:

I don't have a tower though, are you cooling the tower? I think that a lot of folks here find that if they don't have a fan pushing cold air into the tower the beer is too warm in the tower and causes lots of foam...

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I have 10' lines, and they are just a little too short for higher carb levels. I think a good idea is 1' per every psi on your regulator of regular beverage line.

But like cyberbrew mentions, the issue could very well be the tower. If the tower isn't cooled, the beer will foam even with longer lines.

RunNakeDnECU said:

Ideally, 6' provides the correct restriction for serving beer in the 8-14 psi range. I'm sure others who are more experienced will chime in but this is the rule of thumb I use for my Kegerator

Edit: this is the advice more beer.com gives for their tubing, that's what I went off of.

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Morebeer parrots the old school CV, which totally miscomprehends manufacturer performance ratings for tubing.
That's ok - 98% of purported "calculators" parrot the same thing.

Fortunately, we have access to a higher authority that understands the physics of beer lines.

As for the OP, what is the quality of a second pour immediately following the first?

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

Morebeer parrots the old school CV, which totally miscomprehends manufacturer performance ratings for tubing. That's ok - 98% of purported "calculators" parrot the same thing.

Fortunately, we have access to a higher authority that understands the physics of beer lines...

Click to expand...

^^^ +1 ^^^

Brew on

I appreciate all the input and I have read about the tower being too warm. I'm good with the first beer being foamy because of the tower warmth but I'm talking about multiple beers in a row coming out foamy or a whole pitcher. I would think the tower only holds a minimal amount of beer?

C4valent said:

I appreciate all the input and I have read about the tower being too warm. I'm good with the first beer being foamy because of the tower warmth but I'm talking about multiple beers in a row coming out foamy or a whole pitcher. I would think the tower only holds a minimal amount of beer?

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The only problem with too much line is a slow pour, or maybe not enough head on the pour without letting it splash into the glass.

Based on the above, I suspect your foaming issue is from something other than line length. Can you give us full details about the serving hardware? Rise from top of keg to faucet? Faucet, line, and connection types? A single piece of beer line, or some other connections? Maybe the temperature of your kegerator is fluctuating too much causing foamy pours when it is warm?

Can you explain your set and forget method. Do you set psi to one psi for X amount of weeks, then change to 10 – 15 psi? I don’t understand why you are changing the psi.

Can you explain your set and forget method. Do you set psi to one psi for X amount of weeks, then change to 10 – 15 psi? I don’t understand why you are changing the psi.

3/16 line, about 4 inches from keg to start of tower. I don't have a clue what faucet type, bought from a restaurant supply store about a year ago brand new. Owner is big homebrew guy. Just one beer line. Think I should try 1/4 inch line? I guess temp could be fluctuating but my cheap thermometer says around 40 every time I check. When I am cleaning lines it seems as if water comes out fast even at minimal psi. That always made me wonder.

I know this is puzzling, I've made so many adjustments. I'm stumped. Guys at lhbs don't know what to tell me

For example I will set it to 12 psi for an ipa and not touch for a week and pour myself a glass. I don't mess with regulator at all

No foam at first but as the weeks pass will be more and more

Maybe your regulator is pooched?

Yeah, regulator is next thing I'm going to tinker with. What is the lowest psi I could set it and forget and serve at where it would still be well carbed given my stats above?

For a typical American ale

C4valent said:

Yeah, regulator is next thing I'm going to tinker with. What is the lowest psi I could set it and forget and serve at where it would still be well carbed given my stats above?

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Your serving pressure and temp seem to be right in line. Here's the reference i go with:

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

Try turning it down a couple of PSI and see if things improve, but I'm not finding a smoking gun yet...

Any fittings, washers, or other hardware that might not be seated correctly, causing a lot of turbulence in the line near the faucet? Sounds like most of the hardware is fairly new, so I'm guessing it isn't an issue of parts just needing to be cleaned...

I mean, yeah I will try and take the whole thing apart again. Getting frustrated. Thanks for everyone's input though and I will update when I finally diagnose. Was is the absolute lowest psi I can set it though and just forget and have it properly carbed?

If you've been having problems at 12, I'd turn it down to 8-10 for the next one to try it out. Of course, changing it now, the beer will still be carbonated higher, so it will take quite a while to stabilize.

Ok so setting it at 8 psi will still properly carbonate? I don't fully understand that part yet probably will take longer to carbonate?

C4valent said:

Ok so setting it at 8 psi will still properly carbonate? I don't fully understand that part yet probably will take longer to carbonate?

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No. Look at the carb chart. At 8 psi, you may be able to pour without tons of foaming, but it will equalize and eventually start to lose carbonation.

Some people do use turning down the pressure as a work-around, but it's not a permanent fix.

That's what I thought, thanks. From all the responses I have a few things to test, thanks for all the responses. Back to the drawing board

C4valent said:

That's what I thought, thanks. From all the responses I have a few things to test, thanks for all the responses. Back to the drawing board

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I had issues with foam for a long time. I don't know if it's the correct solution or not but this has completely resolved the foam issue for me.http://www.midwestsupplies.com/perlick-650-series-forward-sealing-flow-control-faucet.html
I'm not sure if this forum allows users to post links to other sites? Sorry if not I'm not trying to advertise any particular brand but you should look into a flow control faucet it made a world of a difference for me.

C4valent said:

I mean, yeah I will try and take the whole thing apart again. Getting frustrated. Thanks for everyone's input though and I will update when I finally diagnose. Was is the absolute lowest psi I can set it though and just forget and have it properly carbed?

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@40°F, you want 12 - 13 psi for an APA. That will give you about 2.5 volumes. If you set your pressure lower, you will lose carbonation over time, as others have said.

Brew on

C4valent said:

3/16 line, about 4 inches from keg to start of tower. I don't have a clue what faucet type, bought from a restaurant supply store about a year ago brand new. Owner is big homebrew guy. Just one beer line. Think I should try 1/4 inch line? I guess temp could be fluctuating but my cheap thermometer says around 40 every time I check. When I am cleaning lines it seems as if water comes out fast even at minimal psi. That always made me wonder.

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1/4" line is the last thing you want to try. It takes almost 4 times the length of 1/4" line to give as good a pour as 3/16" line. 1/4" line is for bars that have long line runs. Not appropriate for homebrewers (unless your kegs are in the basement, and the taps upstairs.)

Brew on

Ok, that info definitely helps. Won't even bother with the 1/4 line I have. In regards to that $70 perlick, I'm trying to avoid any more noticeable costs. Swmbo is already on my case as it is about the ongoing purchases of equipment.

Check that the seal under the liquid out post is lubed and intact as a bad seal could cause co2 from the headspace to escape into the line when serving causing foaming issues. Just another shot at a simple fix.

Perfect, I will check that. I assume it's something dumb like that messing everything up. Thank you everyone for all your helpful ideas. Worst case scenario I serve out of a pitcher again for her bday party.

This is what your beer lines look like if you have bad O ring under your dip tube.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIbxNsfjLkAY2E1VHp5bVd0aG8/view?pli=1

Take the faucet off, take it all apart, clean everything, put it back together. I wasn't cleaning my faucet often enough, was getting bad foam. Took it all apart and cleaned it. Also, after doing so, realized how bad stuff gunks up in there. After doing that, my foaming problem went away.

This one's rather rare imo, but I've read of a couple of cases where there was something functionally wrong with the beer line QD that was the cause of their foam problems.

Just throwing it out there...

Cheers! (...like a grenade )

If your regulator's low pressure gauge is 0-60, you could just simply be overpressurized by a few pounds. It's not easy to dial in with a range so high and it can be out of calibration.

I'm starting to doubt my regulator as well

Update. The thermometer I had inside keg measured the air and read the correct temp I wanted. After reading old threads I placed a glass full of water in kegerator and checked the next day and it was frozen! Temp was way too cold. I learned the hard way to never rely on air temp. I placed an aquarium thermometer inside glass of water and played with for days until I nailed an actual steady 36 degrees. Hope this helps someone else. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions