When Maureen put the article out I never noticed what she linked from Nathanael Johnson on GMOs, today I've been reading them, pretty interesting and balanced stuff actually. Here's the first article.
8 beers you should stop drinking immediately
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Amen.
Any anti-GMO person who doesn't get that is one I won't bother talking with about the subject. It's not like this is food exposed to comic-book style gamma radiation, or something. The potentially problems could be as subtle as changing the composition of a protein on the cell surface of the plant, triggering an autoimmune reaction we wind up blaming on MS or Lyme disease or god-knows-what because we won't figure out what is going on until we have 20 years of epidemiological studies to narrow it down for us. And if the product is ubiquitous, we won't even have that. And if and when we even started to get to the tip of that iceberg, there could be millions of dollars of industry-funded studies to fight back (smoking was doctor approved, y'know).
And you could have fifty or a hundred years of genetic modification, but it's not until you make that one, wrong, dangerous modification that something goes wrong.
Most of the time, nothing will happen. Some of the time, something might happen, and you might never know about it. When there's a financial incentive that rewards immediate gains and minimizes liability, I'm going to be a little skeptical. Not crazy, but careful.
Damn, this is one of those "can of worms" threads isn't it?
The real concern here is that all of the beers listed contain DHMO. I am taken aback that this reputable news site would not even list it!
"Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol." ~DHMrg
"What are some uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide?"~DHM
"in the production of beer by all the major beer distributors"~DHM
Preach on!!!
I've been trying to tell people about the dangers of DHMO for years but nobody listens. There's all the stuff you mentioned plus more like DHMO being highly addictive...to the point where total withdrawal from it will actually kill you. It's a major component of Acid Rain. It's used in Fracking and is a major component in the hazardous runoff from that industry.
Just say 'No' to DHMO!!!
The article makes one point that I think is paramount in this discussion; after 20 some years of GMO's being ingested,there's no empirical proof that they cause any harm in humans or animals up to this point. Not that it couldn't,possibly. But that they haven't so far. Yet another case of fear mongering. People fear what they don't understand.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
In my experience, DHMO can only be neutralized to the point of being safe for human consumption when mixed in proper proportion with a solution of hordeum vulgare, humulus lupulus, and saccharomyces cerevisiae.
Stay safe out there, guys. It's a dangerous world we live in.
Aside from corn (corn syrup, corn sugar, etc), what other ingredients that make beer are GMO? I am pretty sure I know the answer. And I am not talking anything crazy. Just the normal stuff that makes beer.
I was pretty grossed out when I heard that they had inserted human DNA into pigs to create a leaner pig, but most of the time I could care less about GMO. Most GMO modification of plants are there so that the plant is more resistant to pests/fungus which means less pesticide/fungicide sprayed on my food. Seems reasonable to me.
As for the rest of the article, pure quackery.
As for the rest of the article, pure quackery.
roastquake
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DHMO was also regularly given to Nazi soldiers during WWII, many are surprised to learn that it is also used as a "cleaning" agent in children's day-cares
Huh, guess I spoke too soon that barley wouldn't be worth genetically modifying, I guess the commercial beer market would be enough to justify that after all (duh).
Google gave me this for "GMO barley", source doesn't seem to be batty:
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/database/plants/36.barley.html
Looks like the usual suspects in terms of research aims, including herbicide tolerance (glyphosate/RoundUp being one presumably).
Actually RoundUp Ready(tm)(c)(r)(etc) is a pretty big one. That's a modification that produces resistance to herbicides. So you can use more herbicide. Makes good sense if you're growing it. Not so much if you're eating it.
Google gave me this for "GMO barley", source doesn't seem to be batty:
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/database/plants/36.barley.html
Looks like the usual suspects in terms of research aims, including herbicide tolerance (glyphosate/RoundUp being one presumably).
Actually RoundUp Ready(tm)(c)(r)(etc) is a pretty big one. That's a modification that produces resistance to herbicides. So you can use more herbicide. Makes good sense if you're growing it. Not so much if you're eating it.
Another quick scan of that report will give you a better understanding, especially the top section. There is a big difference in what is desired and what is really being done.
Good point, no approvals yet. So I guess it's not worth their dough, yet.
It will be a cold day in hell when people grow as much barley as they do corn (unless the nonexistent barley lobby figures out a way to get ethanol subsidies).
I suspect it's a more durable crop to begin with.
It will be a cold day in hell when people grow as much barley as they do corn (unless the nonexistent barley lobby figures out a way to get ethanol subsidies).
I suspect it's a more durable crop to begin with.
If you know anything about RoundUp, it is a kill all. The resistance is put in to have the desired plant resist the spray and everything else killed off, therefore they can not reseed themselves. Unless the farmer really screws up and sprays in the rain, RoundUp is very seldom sprayed more than once per crop. Less use of chemicals than just the ones that suppress weeds and lets them grow back.
Or freeze it and place the suspended DHMO into a highly alcoholic solution....I prefer bourbon for that myself.
Going back to my earlier post, outside of corn, I can't think of anything in beer that is GMO modifies. Not wheat, rye, barley, etc. There are no cereals in production that are GMO modified, and with the pressures that are out there, it will be a long way off.
Now there are varieties that are bread naturally for traits. PolarStar for eg is bread to have a much longer shelf life, but it is 99% used by only one brewery (Saporo I think).
Now there are varieties that are bread naturally for traits. PolarStar for eg is bread to have a much longer shelf life, but it is 99% used by only one brewery (Saporo I think).
The other thing that the anti GMO crowd fails to note is that pretty much every orange they will eat for the rest of their lives, even so called "organic" ones will be genetically modified. If not oranges will be dissapearing. I heard about this last year.
A race to save oranges by altering their DNA.
A race to save oranges by altering their DNA.
I get that argument, and I'm sure there are more poisonous options you could pursue without RoundUp Ready crops and glyphosate. It's not an argument I can cozy up to right away, though. I expect it's easier to fall in love with if you expect to benefit from it (as producers and ag products manufacturers do). When a nuclear option becomes the first option, I'm inclined to think there's some short-term thinking at work.
hokieguy95
Well-Known Member
Here's a counter:
One of the reasons I got into homebrewing and craft beer is because it's more natural.
"Hopping" a beer in Budweiser land is a term meaning something other than adding real Hops. I don't particularly want chemicals and crap in my beer or food.
If getting people into craft beer means telling them the truth about how much crap goes into the stuff that millions consume daily, then more power to them.
mdabbles
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The anti-GMO crowd would totally ignore that.
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My concern for GMO has less to do with human consumption, and more of a concern for non-modified plants that are usually categorized as "heirloom" because they are grown less due to their genetic "inferiority" or lack of appeal. These "super plants" are often times more drought tolerant, have thicker cell walls to resist insects, mold, diseases, etc. They are designed to sell in supermarkets because of their color, and last long distances without bruising. There are non-GM plants that are selected for these qualities as well, and the culmination of both forces tends to push out the "inferior" plants. In VA we have a number of farms and nurseries that are keeping these heirloom plants in production so that people can enjoy their unique flavors and colors.
Additionally, many GMO seeds are patented. They can cross-polinate nearby farms and ruin their crops by causing them to seed these new GM plants. Larger farm companies and GMO producers will even sue for crops. For example:
Monsanto vs Farmer
"It does not matter how a farmer, a forester, or a gardeners seed or plants become contaminated with GMOs; whether through cross pollination, pollen blowing in the wind, by bees, direct seed movement or seed transportation, the growers no longer own their seeds or plants under patent law, they becomes Monsantos property"
If you brew you should know better..... you're falling for that Craft beer is holier that BMC bull****, that's just as bad, and ignorant as the original article. You should know that the SAME INGREDIENTS AND THE SAME PROCESSES ARE USED IN BREWING REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ITS A BIG CORPORATE BREWERY WHO YOU LOOK DOWN ON, OR A CRAFT BREWER, OR US FOR THAT MATTER.
BMC is no more or less "natural" then craft brewing, or homebrewing.
Have you ever made hop tea? Have you ever steeped some hops in 130 degree water and run them through a french press and added that to your beer at bottling time? Or soaked them in vodka? That's the extraction process...It's still extracting the hop oils FROM REAL HOPS.
There many craft brewers, and a few homebrewers on this very site who have used hop extracts.
I guess you also boycott Lagunitus then...they use hop extracts in their CRAFT BEERS. As also does Russian River in Eldar the younger.
I've been working with nitrogen cavitation for hop extraction myself.
I would like to see some defendable facts and sources with regard to that one......?
fuzzy2133
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I had a brew that needed another hop addition and wish I would have know about making an extract at kegging time. Probably would have been the better choice than dry hopping.
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I wish the foodbabe would die in a fire. Specifically, a GMO, free range, cage free, totalitarian free, shade free, conflict free, equal wage for all, organic, fire.
I was interviewed 2 weeks ago for an upcoming Brew Bubba's Radio podcast, and the and the studio audience of homebrewers and mead makers have convinced me to write up an article for BYO magazine on the topic. Once I get my article done, I'll go into detail about it on a thread.
boydster
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Or freeze it and place the suspended DHMO into a highly alcoholic solution....I prefer bourbon for that myself.
This highlights part of the problem that isn't being discussed, though. There is SO MUCH of the DHMO that has been sequestered for millennia in Earth's polar regions. The oceans are already contaminated to the point of vulgarity with this awful substance. Think about the dolphins that are now hopelessly dependent on DHMO. If they are further affected to the point of dying off from contaminated glacial run-off, I won't be able to enjoy my tuna fish sandwiches in the same way anymore.
I read this and dismissed it as pretentious local / organic blathering. I'm totally happy to go local and natural when I can, but the article is just preying on the un-knowledgeable to push a mindset. Using scary buzzwords like "corn syrup" and "GMO." Fish Bladder and Insects are gross! How dare they try to trick me! Sensationalist at best.
There could be some truth in wanting to avoid some of this stuff, but I've been seeing this all around Facebook being shared by people who I know are completely spoon-fed the fear. If they want to make an actual discussion they should change their diction.
Not worth my time.
There could be some truth in wanting to avoid some of this stuff, but I've been seeing this all around Facebook being shared by people who I know are completely spoon-fed the fear. If they want to make an actual discussion they should change their diction.
Not worth my time.
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So to be an organic fire, would that mean it could only be started by lighting?
No. Ligtning fire = climate change = increased C02 = GMO crops
Great points. It's not an agriculture book exactly but James C. Scott's Seeing Like a State had a section on monoculture disasters and how each came about that was really awesome. It sounds boring but I swear it's not. For history/sociology, anyway.
Keeping heirloom/landrace varieties alive is in the interest of anyone who thinks "long-term human survival" isn't just some kind of crazy-ass science fiction phrase. Scientists agree, you need to keep "backups". The best way is to grow them. And sometimes they taste really good. And genetic copyright should piss off everyone who isn't getting paid by it, people from all kinds of political persuasions ought to be opposed to that.
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boydster
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The dangers in the conversation about GMOs are the blanket statements made by both sides. Anyone taking the stance that either "All GMOs are perfectly safe so shut up with your complaining and deal with it" or "GMOs are going to be the end of the world and everyone should rise up together to stomp them out of existence" is creating conflict in an issue that shouldn't be nearly as divisive as it has become. With any new technology, the science behind engineering GMOs needs time and opportunity to mature. That doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens on farms and fields, just as much as it happens in the lab. People that expect all things GMO to be perfected as soon as the first seed is planted in the ground are being unrealistic. However, those expecting their patented seeds to stay in the field where they were planted for testing and not spread or be cross-bred with neighboring plants in nearby fields are being equally as unrealistic.
The issue needs to be approached carefully, systematically, and thoroughly FOR EACH genetic modification before we declare a single, particular genetic modification appropriate for consumption and release into the environment. Blanket approval/denial of all GMOs is just ridiculous.
The issue needs to be approached carefully, systematically, and thoroughly FOR EACH genetic modification before we declare a single, particular genetic modification appropriate for consumption and release into the environment. Blanket approval/denial of all GMOs is just ridiculous.
I just came here to post this...
UglyDude
Loud Mic
Pre-Disclaimer ... Im not taking sides, just making an observation ...
Regarding GMOs: arent most of the people not believing scientists when they say GMOs are safe the same people that say global warming is real because science tells us its real?
and whats wrong with fish bladder? its organic! all natural etc. thats like saying dont eat meat because it has a cut I dont approve of.
also, what separate Bud, Bud Light... and really coors and miller ???? c'mon, they are all so similar ...
Regarding GMOs: arent most of the people not believing scientists when they say GMOs are safe the same people that say global warming is real because science tells us its real?
and whats wrong with fish bladder? its organic! all natural etc. thats like saying dont eat meat because it has a cut I dont approve of.
also, what separate Bud, Bud Light... and really coors and miller ???? c'mon, they are all so similar ...
JohnnyBrewGood
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That article on that site about beer is total crap,
but the one about an alien take over, that one was true. %100
but the one about an alien take over, that one was true. %100
"8 beers you should stop drinking immediately."
I am safe. I don't drink any of them anyways!
I am safe. I don't drink any of them anyways!
The real concern here is that all of the beers listed contain DHMO. I am taken aback that this reputable news site would not even list it!
"Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol." ~DHM
"What are some uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide?"~DHM
"in the production of beer by all the major beer distributors"~DHM
I don' t know how credible that website is considering they are trying to blame school shootings on DHMO
" What is the link between Dihydrogen Monoxide and school violence?
A recent stunning revelation is that in every single instance of violence in our country's schools, including infamous shootings in high schools in Denver and Arkansas, Dihydrogen Monoxide was involved. In fact, DHMO is often very available to students of all ages within the assumed safe confines of school buildings. None of the school administrators with which we spoke could say for certain how much of the substance is in use within their very hallways. "
Im sure they stuff is dangerous but come on, correlation doesn't imply causation.
Yeah, pretty much this. You can end the thread after this post ^^^
But foodbabe.com is a reference. How can I not take it seriously?
