Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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I brewed this up last week and better than usual efficiency and had an og of 1.098 and is down to 1.025. This is my first time brewing a big stout and boy its a great recipe! It tastes amazing already, its going to be hard not to touch this for 6 months!

image.jpg
 
Coffee: I used 16 oz of Chameleon Cold Brew for my maybe 4.5 gal finished product, added at bottling:

http://www.vitadigest.com/groc-851220003216.html

It was really strong coffee flavor initially but in ~3 weeks (in bottle) it mellowed, now at week 4 it all flows great together. I don't know how other store bought cold brews compare but this was a perfect amount for this recipe.

I found some FBS in the store the other day and bought it for comparison. The original has less of (I want to say) chocolate creaminess and a slightly bitter finish compared to mine. (I used bakers chocolate and unsweetened coco powder) My friend couldn't tell the difference in a blind taste test side by side.

If I were doing this again, would definitely up the Oats a lot more to give a thick/creamy body I want this brew to have. Mine turned out almost like Guinness in terms of body but I think would be better as a real oatmeal stout.
 
Has anyone done this recipe via BIAB. My friend and I are looking to do it and I just wanted to make sure it was ok and wouldn't completely ruin the bag with these chocolate additions. If not ruin the bag would it at least drain well? I'm just picturing the chocolate clogging it all up in this recipe or any recipe like this for that matter. Thanks
 
Just kegged this over the weekend. It was quite possibly the best homebrew sample I've ever tasted. The chocolate and coffee notes were just perfect. I find it hard to believe this needs to be aged at all, it tasted ready for primetime already. I followed the recipe to the T, threw in my dark grains while batch sparging. Had a hell of a time with a stuck sparge. Also, I put the coffee grounds in a nylon bag during the boil and threw the chocolate and nibs in with no bag. The nibs did clog up my valve so I ended up just pouring 99% of it into primary, nibs and all.
 
I didn't have Nibs so I bought a bar of unsweet bakers chocolate and a bar of bittersweet bakers chocolate and just doing 2oz of ea straight into the boil. Any probs with this????
 
mtnagel said:
Maple syrup will ferment out leaving the beer drier and with more alcohol. For Founder's CBS, they aged the beer in barrels that previously had maple syrup, so I'm trying to mimic that. I'm hoping it will extract out the maple flavor, but leave the sugar behind. We'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

I made a founders breakfast stout inspired beer with Maple Syrup. It turned out amazing. It was so smooth to begin with and now at 6months its perfect.
It also had coffee, chocolate, and vanilla:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/flapjack-breakfast-stout-chocolate-coffee-oatmeal-maple-imperial-stout-496504/

BTW Maple Syrup isn't too fermentable. I think its a bit less than Candi Syrup which is less than Corn or Invert Syrup. I used 1 lb of it and it really came through in the end. I was ready to use it to prime the batch for more flavor but there was no need.
 
copper2hopper said:
Has anyone done this recipe via BIAB. My friend and I are looking to do it and I just wanted to make sure it was ok and wouldn't completely ruin the bag with these chocolate additions. If not ruin the bag would it at least drain well? I'm just picturing the chocolate clogging it all up in this recipe or any recipe like this for that matter. Thanks
Click to expand...

I did something similar BIAB style (linked in above post) and I don't remember it ruining the bag. I use 5gal nylon paint strainer bags and each ones usually lasts 5-6 brews before I think the seams are starting to go. But anyway, no problem with the chocolate
 
I am doing this on Sunday, and can't decide about the coffee.

Was leaning towards only doing the one addition at flameout, I guess I will just have to sample it after fermentation is complete to see if I think it needs more coffee or not :0)

Not so sure about Sumatra, I really don't like the stuff. Might go with an Espresso Blend.

Coarse or fine grind..>??? This is too much to worry about!
 
Spames said:
I am doing this on Sunday, and can't decide about the coffee.

Was leaning towards only doing the one addition at flameout, I guess I will just have to sample it after fermentation is complete to see if I think it needs more coffee or not :0)

Not so sure about Sumatra, I really don't like the stuff. Might go with an Espresso Blend.

Coarse or fine grind..>??? This is too much to worry about!
Click to expand...

Do a single whole bean addition in secondary. I did it in a very similar brew i linked above. Trust me, I've tried flameout, cold steep, and whole bean in secondary. You'll be glad you took the advice after a month or too. No astringency at all and much better rounded character. Got the advice from madfermtationist, one of the most prominent homebrewers ever.
 
m00ps said:
Do a single whole bean addition in secondary. I did it in a very similar brew i linked above. Trust me, I've tried flameout, cold steep, and whole bean in secondary. You'll be glad you took the advice after a month or too. No astringency at all and much better rounded character. Got the advice from madfermtationist, one of the most prominent homebrewers ever.
Click to expand...

Thanks-- Will give that a go!
 
So steeping the coffee at flameout is not good. Oh well that's what I ended up doing. Smelled real nice anyway. Hydro sample tasted more like chocolate than coffee.
 
olotti said:
So steeping the coffee at flameout is not good. Oh well that's what I ended up doing. Smelled real nice anyway. Hydro sample tasted more like chocolate than coffee.
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Its generally not the best thing, but its usually fine at first. Just drink it young. The two beers I used that method in got very acidic and bitter after a month or so. The cold steeped one took maybe 3 months.
 
I've added it at ~200F, which is the ideal temp according to google:
The brewing temperature of the water used is very important. It should be between 195 F (91 C) and 205 F (96 C). The closer to 205 F (96 C) the better. Boiling water (212 F - 100 C) should never be used, as it will burn the coffee.
Click to expand...
I don't think it every got acidic and I drank some 18 months after brewing. What happens in mine is the coffee fades and the chocolate comes through more. It's different, but still great.

I've done cold brewed coffee and didn't like it as much. I attribute it to the fact that I drink coffee everyday that has been brewed in a coffee pot, so that's what I'm used to. The cold brewed coffee beers I've done were good, but different and I preferred the hot steeped one. To each their own.
 
Like I said I guess we'll see but the sample tasted great more chocolate than coffee and it smelled awesome. I dont really plan on ageing this anyway.
 
I brewed this back in July and I had the opportunity to do a side by side taste comparison last Friday with FBS. It was so close my wife an I had a hard time telling them apart (I'll have to mark the glasses next time). The only difference was maybe a slightly more chocolate aroma coming from the FBS. Other than that than that the recipe I brewed was spot on.

Here is the recipe with the slight variations I made:

16 lbs. American 2-row
1 lbs American Chocolate Malt
.75 lbs Roasted Barley
9 oz American Black Patent
7 oz Crystal Malt 120°L
22 oz Oats Flaked

.5 oz Nugget (Whole, 13.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
.5 oz Mt. Hood (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 30 min.
.5 oz Mt. Hood (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 2 min.

2.5 oz Dark bittersweet baker's chocolate at 15 mins. (Ghirardelli 60% Cacao Bar)
1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins. (Ghana Cacao Nibs)
2 oz Ground Starbucks Sumatran coffee after chilling/before yeast (Cold Brewed)
2 oz of Ghana Cacao nibs with 6-8 oak cubes (American medium-plus toast) soaked in Maker’s Mark Whiskey for 1 week - added 2 weeks before bottling
2 oz Ground Kona coffee (Hula Girl 100% Kona Coffee) cold brewed, added to bottling bucket before bottling
Yeast - 2 pkg. DCL Yeast Safale S-04 Top Quality Ale Yeast (used yeast starter)

Mashed at 155F for 60 mins. 1.33 qt/lb




 
Just finished this about an hour ago. Mash temperature was bang on and didn't drop at all over 60 minutes. Somehow missed my FG by about 10. Think this is the worst I have missed my gravity by. Guess we'll see how it turns out.
 
Thinking about this batch after primary. Left about 3 litres in the kettle with about 5.25 gallons in the fermenter. Probably looking at about 4.75 gallons after transferring from fermenter. I almost never secondary (in part the types of beer I have been making). Issue now is I only have two 6 gallons carboys - too much headspace for this batch.

Assuming I am going to secondary this I am thinking of getting a 5 gallon Better Bottle, but would rather not spend $40-50 when all is said and done.

Question is, if I don't do anything like wanting to age on coffee beans or cacao nibs say is there really any point in doing a secondary? Might thought is when fermentation is done just bottling it and let is sit for 3-4 weeks to "bottle condition."

Also, what have people found with FG on this one with S-04. BeerSmith is telling me 1.026 I think. Also said 1.091 for OG, but I ended up with 1.081. I reduced the 2 row on this a bit from the posted recipe because the ABV was too high. 1.026 seems a little high.

Thoughts?
 
Jay-Brew said:
Thinking about this batch after primary. Left about 3 litres in the kettle with about 5.25 gallons in the fermenter. Probably looking at about 4.75 gallons after transferring from fermenter. I almost never secondary (in part the types of beer I have been making). Issue now is I only have two 6 gallons carboys - too much headspace for this batch.

Assuming I am going to secondary this I am thinking of getting a 5 gallon Better Bottle, but would rather not spend $40-50 when all is said and done.

Question is, if I don't do anything like wanting to age on coffee beans or cacao nibs say is there really any point in doing a secondary? Might thought is when fermentation is done just bottling it and let is sit for 3-4 weeks to "bottle condition."

Also, what have people found with FG on this one with S-04. BeerSmith is telling me 1.026 I think. Also said 1.091 for OG, but I ended up with 1.081. I reduced the 2 row on this a bit from the posted recipe because the ABV was too high. 1.026 seems a little high.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I wouldn;t bother with the secondary. Besides adding stuff, some people will occasionally secondary to bulk age it off the yeast (like months for sours) or to really help clear out a beer (doesnt matter for a stout). Plus, you'd lose another bit of beer during the transfer.

For what its worth, I dont do secondaries even while adding coffee and cocoa. For coffee, I dump in whole beans, for cocao, I'll boil them in a bit of water, cool, and slowly pour into the bucket. I'll go down the side to limit aeration.

1.026 is pretty normal for a big stout, especially if you mashed in the mid-150s. Plus IME, s-04 isnt as highly attentuating as US-05. If you are wanting to up the gravity, why not try adding honey or maple syrup? The aromatics will be preserved since you arent boiling, and you can bump the OG up 5-10 points. Just an idea...
 
Thanks, m00ps! Appreciate the feedback. Don't think I am going to bother with secondary. Think I may just leave this one as is and perhaps add some coffee at bottling at most. I typically keg and haven't bottled forever but feel like this would be a good one to bottle. If this doesn't drop much past 1.026 or so I still have just over 7% ABV, which is fine. I was about 1.5 litres high on my pre-boil volume and I think that left me with a touch lower gravity than I expected - maybe not the full explanation but part of it.
 
I filled my 70qt igloo to the absolute top with an 11 gal. batch of this... freaking out, I covered it with aluminum foil and flipped the cooler lid over and put a few blankets on top of that. Can I mash it was a little off for me and my cooler. I pretty much know the limit now and hope to never take it there again :)

It was a bad start that got a little worse when my hop spider bag got stuck on my thermometer and tore a hole in it. Then I broke my new pump trying to get it tight and continued to fight with the plate chiller during cool-off for about a total of an hour to get it all into the fermenter. Through it all, I still ended up with over 10 in the fermenter, so I'm happy.

Crossing my fingers on this one, but I think it will be fine. Started bubbling within an hour and a much more aggressive ferment was happening by the next AM. The gasses smell normal, not sure how good of an indicator that is.

I'll leave it where it is until November 30 when it will go to the kegs for aging.
 
The fermentation on this batch is very very minimal. My friend and I re-hydrated 3 packs of S-04 in one flask on a stir plate as we were doing two batches last Sunday. One being this stout and the other a Zombie Dust Clone that calls for only one pack. We equally poured one pack worth of liquid into the ZD batch then the next 2 in this stout. Should we not have re-hydrated? Or used 2 packs? Does the chocolate minimize fermentation? The ZD has pretty much settled down to nothing now as it usually has after aggressive bubbling for a couple days but this stout is little to no activity. Any info would help, thanks. Just a little worried that we're wasting good wort.
 
copper2hopper said:
My friend and I re-hydrated 3 packs of S-04 in one flask on a stir plate as we were doing two batches last Sunday.
Click to expand...
did you use the stir plate to mix the yeast solution? and did you rehydrate in plain water or in wort?

copper2hopper said:
Should we not have re-hydrated? Or used 2 packs? Does the chocolate minimize fermentation?
Click to expand...
rehydrating is always a good idea, at least when you follow instructions... i'm wondering if your extended stir plate technique depleted the yeast. was the ZD clone lower gravity?

chocolate does not inhibit fermentation, in my experience. makes for some awesome thick krausen (looks like chocolate mousse!).

have you taken a gravity sample? if gravity hasn't dropped i would get some fresh yeast in there ASAP.
 
Thanks for the reply. Used sterile water for rehydration. ZD was a lower gravity. I'll take a reading and see where it's at. Haven't done it yet. It's only been 5 days
 
copper2hopper said:
Used sterile water for rehydration.
Click to expand...
sterile as in boiled tap water, or did you use distilled or reverse osmosis (RO) water? distilled and RO aren't good for rehydrating - the lack of minerals is rough on the yeast.

also, you should pitch the rehydrated yeast into wort after 30 minutes. you don't want them sitting in just water for much longer than that, they start to deplete their resources on staying alive instead of using them to reproduce.

copper2hopper said:
ZD was a lower gravity.
Click to expand...
that might help explain why it took off. or might not...

copper2hopper said:
It's only been 5 days
Click to expand...
3 days delay is OK, 5 days would make me nervous. if you have access to any other yeast, i would pitch it.
 
Did you accidentally hit the speech to text feature on your phone during a makeout session??


Anyway, I have had my beer in primary for long enough. Hoping to get it in secondary tonight, and the extra half batch on oak and bourbon for a KBS style beer.
 
FYI, There is another thread regarding the KBS recipe, which is a bit different than the regular breakfast stout. Mine came out pretty good. Was planning to crack open a bottle of the real stuff to do a comparison over the weekend but it didn't happen.




Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Don't think I am going to age this on anything (like nibs, coffee beans). Checked gravity one week in fermenter and was at 1.022. Two packs of S-04 went hard for about four days and suspect it's pretty close to done. Thinking of bottling at day 14 or maybe let it goes for about three weeks in primary then bottle and wait for another three. See how it turns out and then maybe make changes on a future batch with aging on nibs, coffee beans....
 
Is the recipe in the first post still the most accurate? I see there are a few post where people have tweaked it for their own tastes.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
hawgwild81 said:
Is the recipe in the first post still the most accurate? I see there are a few post where people have tweaked it for their own tastes.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Click to expand...

The newest one I think was a few pages ago. But any of them will be good. Tune it to your own tastes. I made a maple flavored imperial Stout after this base recipe if you're interested
 
Has anyone brewed this at lower then normal ABV? I am thinking of doing it at about 6%. I bottle my beer and I want it to be carbed up and drinkable by Christmas. I can't brew it until the first of December that is why the slightly rushed timeline. Any advice on the chocolate and coffee additions? Cut them back, do the normal amount, anything is helpful thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 

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