American "Pint" vs European PINT!

mitch171 said:

Did you take into account liquor license, bar staff, cleaning supplies, refrigeration, building overhead, waste.

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All of which goes into food sales too. It takes a lot more staff to make a soup than it does to pour a beer.

I agree beer makes more than liquor, but much less than food or pop.

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When I was working in the service industry, we were lucky if we broke even on the food. It was the beer and soda that made the money.

northernlad said:

I don't know where you are getting your kegs, but I haven't seen a $55 keg in many years. And I have never seen a $55 keg of anything worth drinking.
Based on many of the places I have worked, it is highly unlikey that any operator is going to get much more than $400-$450 from a keg of premium beer if they are actually pouring a 16oz glass (128*15.5/16*4=$496). That is based on $4 a glass and accounting for waste (and lets not forget the free night of drinking the bartender gave his buddy). If their kegs cost $150 that makes their liquor cost on a keg 33%.

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Who the hell is selling Premium beer for $4 for a 16 oz pint?


I can get a keg for $55 at any liquor store around here (of macro).

Synovia said:

Who the hell is selling Premium beer for $4 for a 16 oz pint?


I can get a keg for $55 at any liquor store around here (of macro).

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Most bars in NW Washington are $3.75-4.25.
Now I think I see the real problem. You guys are getting shafted no matter what size the glass.

northernlad said:

Most bars in NW Washington are $3.75-4.25.
Now I think I see the real problem. You guys are getting shafted no matter what size the glass.

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Around here, you go to a brewpub, and anything decent STARTS at about $6 a glass for that BrewPub's own stuff. If I go to a normal bar, and get a bottle of something decent, its most likely in the 6-7 range.


$3.75-4.25 is BMC price in most placed (here, in chicago, and in boston, where I lived previously), unless you're there on Dollar Draft night or something.

The fact that they offer a dollar night should give you some indication of how far they usually deposit the tap handle in your back side.

Synovia said:

All of which goes into food sales too. It takes a lot more staff to make a soup than it does to pour a beer.



When I was working in the service industry, we were lucky if we broke even on the food. It was the beer and soda that made the money.

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I guess it depends on the particular places mark up. Food here makes a killing, alcohol on the other hand just makes people hungry. I get 20 oz of micro brew for $3 for specials and about $4.50 for any of the other 75 beers on tap. On the other hand bottles of BMC cost $3.75, and I don't actually know the cost on tap. I recently converted my friend from the bottle to real beer.

http://www.macgregorsgrillandtaproom.net/beers.asp

Wow this thread really took off!

My position remains the same. I don't like to have to pay money to take it in the butt, but hell, I'll do anything for a beer!

Wait, that came out all wrong!

northernlad said:

The fact that they offer a dollar night should give you some indication of how far they usually deposit the tap handle in your back side.

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And all this time I'd been thinking that I'd been getting a bargain everytime I went to a bar

Okay, I just need to say that I agree it is a rip-off to order a "pint" and get 12 ounces.

However, in the states nobody orders a pint! Your options are DRAFT or BOTTLE. Most bottles are twelve ounces. Most drafts are twelve to fourteen ounces, and they may give you the draft for a quarter or two less than the bottle.

This is very different than a bar promoting that they sell "PINTS" for X dollars and you are handed a cheater glass. There is another thread on here somewhere about that exact case, I am looking for it. Unless I go to a real beer bar (I live in south jersey) like Monks or Eulogy in Philly, There is no option of ordering a "pint". They always say Draft or Bottle.

Bars make more on bottles, period. In the states they mark everything up and rob you blind in bars and restaurants for alcohol. We should not be mad about the size of our DRAFT beer. We should be pissed that people are charging $5 and sometimes more for the cheapest bar in the joint. I will pay that for a 12ounce draft of a good IPA but for BMC I am walking out of there fast. These bars are trying to serve you one beer for a dollar less than what a six pack costs. Now that is bull****. Just saying you got to pick the right battles. Boycott the high mark-ups and bring these bars back to reality.

I think the people that are upset are in the case of ordering a "pint" and getting "not a pint" For example when I was in college a bar called "BJ's" would have dollar "pint" night and it was not near a pint of beer.

My point exactly!

I found that Thread

A lot of this thread wants to talk in terms of cats that are either black or white, but I think there's room for gray. Let's take our favorite local pub, which is very highly thought of hereabouts: http://www.blindpigco.com/

Up front: No draft beer of any kind is sold by a specific measure, it's a "beer."

When a draft beer is served, it is priced from $4.00 (for a shaker of Lagunitas IPA, bartenders pour pretty full) to $8.00 (for a tulip glass that MAY hold 12 oz of Gulden Drach or some such). What throws confusion into this mix is that a Guinness will be served in a nonic that I know will hold a pint, with an inch of head. They will also serve a dimple mug of Three Floyd's Robert the Bruce for $4.50 and I know that I'm getting more than a pint.
Higher ABV beers / Imperials, etc. tend to be served in the smaller tulips, while the 5-6% ales, porters and stouts will be served in the larger glasses.

So- it's quite variable. Would going to the Euro system where every glass has a marked capacity be good? Maybe. Does the present system bother me? No. If I didn't like it, I'd drink elsewhere.

of course I am now a card carrying member:



I think we should get some printed for HBT... they are here

Except for those who say they are getting exactly what they want. Then by all means. Stick with it.

Maybe I will change the US to metric while I am at it! :fro:

i want to get some of the pints that have the convex ring about 70% up the shaft. so when your so smashed your about to drop it, you won't. like magic!

rico567 said:

Up front: No draft beer of any kind is sold by a specific measure, it's a "beer."

So- it's quite variable. Would going to the Euro system where every glass has a marked capacity be good? Maybe. Does the present system bother me? No. If I didn't like it, I'd drink elsewhere.

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It is like when you order a meal, you don't know how big/small it will be it is just what you ordered. I agree that when you order a beer, you should either ask if you are concerned about the volume/how they serve it, or just not expect anything in particular. It is just annoying when someplace says they are giving you a pint and you get something else.

Another thing that annoys me is Apple bee's Guinness. They advertise it as "comes in a Guinness Glass." Now that makes me assume (wrongfully so) that it would come in a typical Guinness Glass which holds a pint plus head. But no they serve in special made "Guinness type" glasses which hold 12 oz at best if filled to the rim.

JJDMusic said:

Okay, I just need to say that I agree it is a rip-off to order a "pint" and get 12 ounces.

However, in the states nobody orders a pint! Your options are DRAFT or BOTTLE. Most bottles are twelve ounces. Most drafts are twelve to fourteen ounces, and they may give you the draft for a quarter or two less than the bottle.

This is very different than a bar promoting that they sell "PINTS" for X dollars and you are handed a cheater glass. There is another thread on here somewhere about that exact case, I am looking for it. Unless I go to a real beer bar (I live in south jersey) like Monks or Eulogy in Philly, There is no option of ordering a "pint". They always say Draft or Bottle.

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Plenty of bars in the states say "PINT" or 16 oz.


Also,

I don't think most reasonable people expect that "pint night" advertisements are a certification of accurate weights and measures. Different words in different contexts can have different meanings.

Where is the campaign for honest sippy cups, tea cups, coffee cups, tea spoons and table spoons? Is there a coffee website somewhere were someone is having a hissy about a cup of coffee not holding 8 full ounces.

Do they advertise 8 oz and not provide it?

MeatyPortion said:

Do they advertise 8 oz and not provide it?

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Most coffee shops I frequent do advertise sizes as the full size of the cup, not the fill level, yes.

If they advertise an 8oz cup then it's fine, if they advertise 8oz of coffee then they are deceiving bastards.

Lunarpancake said:

Each keg that is supposed to serve 120 pints actually ends up serving 145. At $7 a pint the bar ends up making $175.00 more than they really should be making if they were pouring fairly.

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I want to know who pays $7.00 for a pint for beer!! Even at an expensive place $5.00 is the most I've seen.

It depends on the beer. I have seen $12 for a single 12 ounce bottle. And I have seen dollar drafts. Not at the same place.

JJDMusic said:

It depends on the beer. I have seen $12 for a single 12 ounce bottle. And I have seen dollar drafts. Not at the same place.

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I think the gripe is about ho-hum drafts, not the niftiest of craft brews that many hbt'rs gladly shell out big dollars for. Last time I was at the bar I bought a bottle of RR consecration for 30 something. mmmmm flanders....

uechikid said:

I want to know who pays $7.00 for a pint for beer!! Even at an expensive place $5.00 is the most I've seen.

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Typical pint of beer here (although its filled to the line) is €4.50 to €5.00, which is about $7-$8... just depends on where you live. The price here is mostly due to high taxes on alcohol, you may just live somewhere with low overheads.

justflow1983 said:

Typical pint of beer here (although its filled to the line) is €4.50 to €5.00, which is about $7-$8... just depends on where you live. The price here is mostly due to high taxes on alcohol, you may just live somewhere with low overheads.

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Not to annoy you but it's €4.20 to €4.50 down here

The full pint thing never bothered me when I was in the states because the beer was so much cheaper. But it would piss me off here...

Its €4.20 in my local and I know a place that's doing all pints for €3.50, but about €5 seems to be the norm in Dublin. The price doesn't bother me so much as the fact that you're paying that for essentially BMC.

I grew up in NY and whenever I go home I just drink $1 PBRs on principle.

At my regular bar normal prices for imports like Guiness or Fullers go for $5.60 to $6.20, but that is for a 20oz pint. They have also have a rotating Brewdog cask which is pretty sweet, but anything over 6% abv is only served in 10oz portions.

It can be annoying when they don't serve you a full portion, but you don't have to go there to get beer. You can also complain to the manager if you feel you aren't getting what you paid for, it most likely won't get you anywhere but you do have the option.

remilard said:

Where is the campaign for honest sippy cups, tea cups, coffee cups, tea spoons and table spoons? Is there a coffee website somewhere were someone is having a hissy about a cup of coffee not holding 8 full ounces.

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I actually asked the Barista at *$'s about this because I bought a 14 oz travel mug from them. The problem was they serve 8, 12, 16, 20 oz sizes. They said the different sizes are more about the number of espresso shots not the overall volume. 8=1 shot not a lot of filler, 12=1 shot more filler, 16=2 shots not a lot of filler, 20=2 shots more filler. So my 14 oz cup I can choose either 1 shot lots of filler or 2 shots and less filler. In the end I am happy to get 2 oz less and have a more concentrated flavor.

But to answer the question I would be pissed no matter what the product is, if they say it is one weight/size and it is actually another. There are some exception, like lumber which is cut to the size but then shrinks as it dries. I also have a kitchen scale and I sometimes weight something when I buy it, just to see how close it is. A few times I have returned the product.

I also usually weigh my hops when I get them, they are expensive and 1/10 of an oz adds up overtime. Most times (taking the packaging into account) they actually have a bit more than advertised though.

northernlad said:

I actually had one of my customers ask me if there was a 12oz glass the same size as a pint because he was too chicken**** to take a price adjustment but was perfectly fine with straight up ripping his guests off.

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Wouldn't the cost of the glassware be as much or more than whatever the increase in price was?

Synovia said:

Who the hell is selling Premium beer for $4 for a 16 oz pint?


I can get a keg for $55 at any liquor store around here (of macro).

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Yes you can buy beer for 55$ a keg. Like I said before most states make the bars buy directly from the distributor they can't just walk into a store and buy beer or alcohol for resale and they pay a much higher price. Here the bar has to pay for the keg plus tax .14 cents per gallon and there is also a floor tax of .03 cents per gallon wine is .30 cents per gallon. Lets not forget that the price of a draft includes the 8.25 % sales tax

Now I know in a lot of states buy backs are not allowed but here its a common practice where a bar tender/owner will give you a beer after you buy several. This is done all night and by my math if a draft is 14 once's that's about 142 beers . So in actuality the keg may only have 120 sales depending on the policy if you get a beer free for every 4 or so bought.And this does not include waste

So even if a keg was 55$ which is way low and the tax is 2.60 (floor and excise tax on 15.5 gallons) and 9.90 (8.35% sales tax on 120 beers) the bar pays out 67.50

At 3$ a beer for BMC beer 120 X 3$ = 360 - the 67.50 you get 292.50 $

And thats not even the profit you still haven't paid any salary, heat electric including the walk in or beer kegerator and all the other expense's to run the business. I really don't think most people have any idea what it cost's to run a bar.

MR2Aaron said:

Wouldn't the cost of the glassware be as much or more than whatever the increase in price was?

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A 12oz glass would be more than a 16oz glass, but maybe only $5 a case which is $.20 a glass. So after the first couple beers he's breaking even. To tell you the truth, I didn't even look for one and told him they didn't exist. I also told him that he would be better off explaining a $.25 adjustment than trying to slip by smaller glasses.
I often show homeowners who come into the store and enquire about our giant pile of mixing glasses the difference between the 14oz and pints so they know what they are getting when they go out.
As far as $1 pint night goes, if they are advertising them as pints and they are not pints, it is just as unacceptable as shorting full price pints.

We should rename this thread Truth In advertising or Die.

MeatyPortion said:

If they advertise an 8oz cup then it's fine, if they advertise 8oz of coffee then they are deceiving bastards.

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I've never seen a bar advertise "16 ounces of beer".

Here is what you see at a coffee house:

Latte
8 oz 2.50
12 oz 3.00
16 0z 4.00

Here is what you see at a bar.

Beer
16 oz 4
20 oz 5

In both cases what the volume is referring to (container volume or actual liquid fill level) is not explicit and normal people just buy what they want and go on with their day.

remilard said:

In both cases what the volume is referring to (container volume or actual liquid fill level) is not explicit and normal people just buy what they want and go on with their day.

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People purchase larger quantities of alcohol at a faster rate than coffee. If coffee drinkers were being gypped at the same % as beer drinkers I'm sure their loss would be MUCH less than the beer drinker.

Lunarpancake said:

People purchase larger quantities of alcohol at a faster rate than coffee. If coffee drinkers were being gypped at the same % as beer drinkers I'm sure their loss would be MUCH less than the beer drinker.

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Most people don't think they are being gypped on either.

Go down to a bar and tell people all night that there is really only around 14 oz of beer in the glass. See how many care.

Hmm, my local bar pours most of their beers into the glasses they should pair with. A tall skinny Weizen glass for hefes and tulips for most belgians and nonics for English Pales, etc. I can't imagine asking them to get "certified" versions of all those. I'm happy with the pours I get - if not I'd go elsewhere. I wouldn't have a problem bitching at them if I felt shorted so they'd know. In the past they have even topped me up when they poured one that was a bit foamy.

remilard said:

Go down to a bar and tell people all night that there is really only around 14 oz of beer in the glass. See how many care.

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Well, yeah. In the average American bar you will find a high percentage of neanderthals who don't give a crap about what they are drinking, they are more concerned with WHY they are drinking it and if they can get into a fight/f*ck or both.......I don't see why laws have to be lax regarding weights and measures simply because these neanderthals don't give a crap.

For what it's worth, they don't care about what is actually in a hot dog either, but for some reason the law feels obliged to not allow the manufacturers to put lead in them. :cross:

The only time it would piss me off is if they were advertising "pint" beer I don't ever recall seeing it worded on the menu as a pint in most chains or local bars its always cans ,bottles or Draft . So if they are saying pints at your local watering hole and they are not giving you a pint then ***** but if it just says draft there is nothing to be said.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

Well, yeah. In the average American bar you will find a high percentage of neanderthals who don't give a crap about what they are drinking, they are more concerned with WHY they are drinking it and if they can get into a fight/f*ck or both.......I don't see why laws have to be lax regarding weights and measures simply because these neanderthals don't give a crap.

For what it's worth, they don't care about what is actually in a hot dog either, but for some reason the law feels obliged to not allow the manufacturers to put lead in them. :cross:

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I've been to England and English bars, I wouldn't go claiming superiority if I were you.

remilard said:

I've been to England and English bars, I wouldn't go claiming superiority if I were you.

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How the hell was I claiming superiority!? I never even mentioned English pubs! I was simply painting a picture of most of the bars in my area. It was accurate. Admittedly, i should have specified this area of Ohio rather than use the term "American" but from what I have seen on my limited travels in the US the dive bar is a fairly common thing.

Did you think i don't know that the UK has a high percentage of drunken wankers? That's just hilarious!