What has two thumbs and is going pro?

That'd be awesome! I don't know how slowly real estate and rezoning goes, but I'd hope we have a location by then. I know at some point brewing has to shut off, after you apply for some permits and before you get them, but I'm sure we'll have plenty of homebrew R&D by then.

So have you guys learned from the hurdles experienced by Flying Bison? I believe that it was raw materials cost that finally did them in. Too bad because I know a few of those guys and one of them was a good friend of mine, we finished our MBA's together at UB. I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope that you succeed, but you have to realize that it is a very steep hill to climb. I would agree that it would probably be in your best interest to only distribute within a small region at first. Keep us posted and since I am local, let me know if you need any help.


BTW: Maybe I'll see you at the Bfest today.

So what is the status? Do you have a (rough) estimate as to when you might be officially started? One month? Six months? Year?

I will be starting a job in the next month. I will have disposable income then (above the wifey's) and I look forward to spending at your brewery.

I got news yesterday (best birthday present ever) that our location journey is moving into its final stages. I don't want to jinx it yet, but soon, very soon.

We probably aren't going to be brewing commercially for at least a year. We would like to be selling by this time next year but are going to try to budget assuming we won't start until October/November, just in case there's a roadblock somewhere. The maze of paperwork, licenses and inspections will be taking all of that time, but it will give us a good buffer to get our recipes and processes down.

I don't want to promise anything, but even if we can't sell anything, we'll still have homebrewed test batches available for sampling. I'd like to say 'come to the brewery for them' but I'm not sure how kosher that is: I know at some point when we file paperwork we're not allowed to brew in the building until we're approved. We'll still be homebrewing then, of course; we just can't be doing it at CBW HQ.

So, more as it develops. I update the blog at least once a week, on Thursdays, with any developments. I try to post here too, but the past few have been 'not much new, more info soon' and I don't want it to seem like I'm spamming HBT. When there's something I can announce, oh I'll announce it!

I don't know if it would be helpful or not, but I know of a couple microbreweries in the Finger Lakes region that have opened in the past year (or are in the process of setting up shop). Might be a source of some guidance through the processes. Keuka Brewing has been around for maybe two years, Finger Lakes Brewing Company is still setting up shop. Not too far from Buffalo. Might be worth trying to make friends with these guys (they aren't so close that you'd really be competition; they're both in the Hammondsport area, so what, maybe a bit more than an hour from Buff).

Well, even close people aren't really competition, per se. I think Buffalo has quite a lot of room to grow, beer wise. There's someone else doing almost the exact same thing we are, starting around the same time. We both called ourselves the city's first nanobrewery, and had to edit things!

Thanks for the list. I think we're getting close to the point where others' experience will be helpful.

We're on the agenda for the next zoning board meeting. Because of this, a guy at the Buffalo News got tipped off to us and asked for some more info. We thought we'd get a paragraph somewhere on page C-12 or something, but then today we wake up to find out we're on the front goddamn page. So, that's awesome.

(they also totally spill the beans on the location so I can tell you it used to be an old malting complex and how badass is that?)

Sigafoos said:

We're on the agenda for the next zoning board meeting. Because of this, a guy at the Buffalo News got tipped off to us and asked for some more info. We thought we'd get a paragraph somewhere on page C-12 or something, but then today we wake up to find out we're on the front goddamn page. So, that's awesome.

(they also totally spill the beans on the location so I can tell you it used to be an old malting complex and how badass is that?)

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That's great news, free advertising is never a bad thing when starting any business en devour. And the fact that your going to be in an old malting house is f'in cool.

Buffalo is now part of my sales territory, I look forward to checking out your new digs and hopefully filling a growler or two to bring back to Ohio.

Congrats ....

I'm guessing this article is about you guys: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/buffalo/article184877.ece. This is awesome, good luck with getting everything straightened out so you can brew and sell. Will there be a storefront at the location?

HELL YEAH it's about us! That news is absolutely amazing. We didn't expect it to be decided this month, let alone so quickly. The Buffalo News (Brian Meyer specifically) really has a thing for us, apparently, as we were in the paper yesterday too (in print we were on the Seven By Seven on A2; today the above story is on C3).

I'm so goddamn excited. 13/15 Lafayette Avenue. Tell your friends.

There will be a storefront, in that we'll fill growlers and probably have some other swag there to purchase (likely similar to Flying Bison's setup). It won't be a bar, though: we'll offer samples but we're really in a residential area (hence the zoning variance) and that was one of the concerns we had to address, that we won't be causing drunkenness or anything like that.

Next up is closing (coming up in a month or so though I don't remember the date offhand), and after that we file with the TTB. Some of our equipment is on order already. This thing is real, guys.

Awesome, can't wait to check it out. We're going to be in Buffalo early next month, but it's a fly-in, fly-out kind of trip for a cousin's wedding, so don't think we'll have time to visit. Planning a bit longer of a trip around Christmas, though, so we'll make sure to swing by then and say hi.

We should have equipment by then (though not all of our conicals will be in, most likely), but won't be able to brew. As far as we can tell, before our TTB application we can brew there because it's considered homebrewing on a larger scale (though we can't sell it, obviously). Once we file with the TTB though, no brewing. So we'll have all this nice shiny equipment and nothing to do with it. Ah well, at least we can show it off!

Well, yeah! I have no shame, I'll admit to being a sucker for shiny objects.

You may have already mentioned this, but how big of a system are you putting together?

We were planning on going with the 1bbl system from Stout Tanks, but I think we were also asking him what the cost would be to go up to a 1.5bbl system (we'd like to do 6bbl/week initially, and that cuts out two brewing sessions). Then we're ordering our single tier system from Psycho Brew. I haven't had any contact with them directly but they've both been very friendly and helpful. We may even be getting them to do more business together (one sells 1bbl pots with no burners, one sells 1bbl burners with no pots...)

so, where abouts in buffalo? and do you need any volunteers? im close enough where i could come by if needed.

That's awesome news; congratulations. How many conical fermenters do you think you'll need to start with? I checked out the equipment from your links and it looks great.

Sigafoos said:

We were planning on going with the 1bbl system from Stout Tanks, but I think we were also asking him what the cost would be to go up to a 1.5bbl system (we'd like to do 6bbl/week initially, and that cuts out two brewing sessions). Then we're ordering our single tier system from Psycho Brew. I haven't had any contact with them directly but they've both been very friendly and helpful. We may even be getting them to do more business together (one sells 1bbl pots with no burners, one sells 1bbl burners with no pots...)

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That small? Isn't your five-year goal like 1,000bbl/annually?

Oh, and we're definitely going to be out, Christmas-time; just bought Bills/Pats tickets for the day after Christmas.... :rockin: :rockin:

pwndabear said:

so, where abouts in buffalo? and do you need any volunteers? im close enough where i could come by if needed.

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[ame]http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13+Lafayette+Avenue,+Buffalo,+NY&sll=42.94698,-78.865536&sspn=0.00834,0.016544&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=13+Lafayette+Ave,+Buffalo,+Erie,+New+York+14213&ll=42.920386,-78.897951&spn=0.008344,0.016544&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.920052,-78.897968&panoid=3uF4-vppgI0_b9r6d4DJJw&cbp=12,182.33,,0,-1.19[/ame]

13 Lafayette Ave, 14213! We'll let people know if/when we need help. Right now the building is full of medical equipment and stuff from sex toy parties, though unfortunately the edible bras and penis shooters don't come with the sale.

[edit: oh hey awesome it embeds the link!]

Waunabeer said:

That's awesome news; congratulations. How many conical fermenters do you think you'll need to start with? I checked out the equipment from your links and it looks great.

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We're discussing that internally. I think we're going with 6 but don't quote me. We're thinking about the possibility of doing some conditioning in kegs to save on brite tanks. (you can tell we're legit because we call them brite tanks and not secondaries!)

the_bird said:

That small? Isn't your five-year goal like 1,000bbl/annually?

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That includes growth at the 1-3 year mark. We're starting out small (the definition of a nanobrewery, from olllllo, being one that makes no sense when you look at the labor in to product out). If things go as well as we hope, very quickly we'll be expanding to a 3/5/7/etc bbl system. Our goal is consistent, sustainable growth.

(and the News has really seized on to the idea Ethan had of a chain of CBWs in different communities: you should forget about that, for now. If it happens it will be 5+ years down the line, and then we would have two nanobreweries vs one regular sized one, and so there are benefits [staying boutiquey, etc] but it's not written in stone at all.)

Cool, as long as the cost of the 1/1.5BBL system isn't such that it ends up being a sunk cost to you. If all goes well, that'd at least be a nice pilot system for you.

So it sounds like you're trying to integrate yourself into some of the local farming communities - are there any of the ingredients that you'd be sourcing locally?

dude sweet! please keep me in the loop. i'd love to come by and work my arse off for you

Buffalo's west side has a lot of abandoned property. There's a reason we were at the top of America's Top Dead Cities. When people move away, into a better neighborhood or into a new housing development most times the lot sits unused. (This is all part of a larger issue, and the city has a lot of ennui going around, let me tell you) However, there are urban farmers like the Massachusetts Avenue Project that take these lots and turn them into farms, or gardens. I toured the MAP farms last year and it was really awesome (it also solves the issue of poor eating habits in a low income, largely carless area). We've already been told that we can have a vacant lot if we'll do something with it, and so we'd like to turn it into a brewer's garden, with hops (obviously) and other herbs that can be used in beer. We won't have enough for constant use, of course, but if we can get some of the farms to grow them we can at least make a harvest/wet hop ale.

Grains will obviously be a pain, what with the malting, though it would be a fun experiment to try at some point (and then there are all the unmalted grains, like rye, that we could use). We don't have any plans to do any fruit beers now, but we also haven't sworn them off, so it'd be cool to do some sort of partnership in the future.

pwndabear, Rochester is quite the hotbed for brewing right now too. Do you know about Three Heads?

I do not, actually. Do tell...

Im really trying to get into brewing as a career so any time i can get with a brewery, the better!

That's awesome! Good luck, and i'll keep the jealousy to a minimum.

pwndabear said:

I do not, actually. Do tell...

Im really trying to get into brewing as a career so any time i can get with a brewery, the better!

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Well somebody doesn't follow us on Facebook... Info on Three Heads (contract brewing with CBC right now, plans to expand in the future). Are you a UNYHA member? Seems like they'd know more on the locals. You should join UNYHA anyway; everyone I know in the club seems awesome.

I tried to join them actually. emailed them about 3 weeks ago and never got anything back at all. i figured maybe they were full up?

There's 3 breweries opening in Rochester in the next few months. (if you include Canandaigua)

Custom Brewcrafters does accept unpaid interns if you want brewery experience.

pwndabear said:

I tried to join them actually. emailed them about 3 weeks ago and never got anything back at all. i figured maybe they were full up?

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Hi, I am a UNYHA member and I can tell you we are definitely accepting new members, from experienced brewers to beginning brewers and beer enthusiasts. I'm sorry your email got no response. If it was sent through the website, it may be that the web form is not working. I'll have to let the web admin know in that case. (It also looks like several things need to be updated there.)

In any event, our current president is Jeremy Belair, who's reachable at [email protected]; the rest of the officers' contact information is at the end of our monthly newsletter - here's the September one: http://www.unyha.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/439437_1.pdf

It turns out you just missed our monthly meeting last night. We meet on the 2nd Wednesday of the month at 7:30 at Merchants Grill, next to L&M Lanes (near the corner of Culver & Merchants). September is actually membership renewal month, so this is the best time to join. Individual annual membership is $25; couple membership is $40.

I hope you will join us at our next monthly meeting on October 13 or at one of the other events listed in our events calendar (also in the newsletter).

pwndabear said:

I do not, actually. Do tell...

Im really trying to get into brewing as a career so any time i can get with a brewery, the better!

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Oh - also, Genesee Country Village and Museum is accepting volunteers at their historical brewery. Due to licensing weirdness they don't actually make beer for human consumption there (they pour it on the garden!) but hey, it is brewing experience.

Well isn't that a damn shame.

Calico said:

Oh - also, Genesee Country Village and Museum is accepting volunteers at their historical brewery. Due to licensing weirdness they don't actually make beer for human consumption there (they pour it on the garden!) but hey, it is brewing experience.

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thats the worst thing ive ever heard in my entire life.

pwndabear said:

thats the worst thing ive ever heard in my entire life.

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ha! then you (a) haven't heard a lot of bad things and (b) probably shouldn't volunteer there.

It makes me cry too. But hey, it does serve the purpose of educating the visitors about how grain is ground, how it's mashed, how hop additions go in... the kids who visit love to help out. And the beer whose recipe they are following is actually made at Custom Brewcrafters (1803 Fat Ox Ale) and sold on premises in the 2 restaurants there (at Genesee Country Village).

I saw some tee-shirts on your blog/website. Do you have any left that i can purchase?

BryanJ said:

I saw some tee-shirts on your blog/website. Do you have any left that i can purchase?

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I'm not sure - the keeper of the T-shirts is Alan Mack - [email protected] - and he has people pre-order them and brings them to meetings a couple times a year.

Bryan, if you meant us, nope, not yet. Nine of those were made, and I ironed 'em all on myself (remarking that it was a literal sweatshop in my house). We do keep making cryptic comments about shirts being sold at some point, though...

did you want someone to possibly do some designs for you? i know someone who is getting into the tshirt biz and would be happy to speak with you and come up with some ideas...

We may get to that point, definitely. There's an idea we have, and it's cool, but I don't want to spoil it until it's set in motion.

Saw your guys article in life hacker. Just wanted to post it up here.

http://lifehacker.com/5664424/how-to-give-your-beer-the-right-glass-and-a-proper-pour

Thanks! Yeah, that was awesome. Not really about us, but Ethan manages to sneak in a few plugs.

Between that and Blue Monk finally (finally!) being open, I think Buffalo is on its way to becoming a lot more beer-aware.

Hey, how did you brewing go at Bidwell? And how can i get one of the blue cbw t shirts??

the_bird said:

That small? Isn't your five-year goal like 1,000bbl/annually?

Oh, and we're definitely going to be out, Christmas-time; just bought Bills/Pats tickets for the day after Christmas.... :rockin: :rockin:

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I'll be at that game too

Go Bills!