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I know I am late to the party on this, but I would change one variable with each brew to isolate the problem. First try doing everything as normal but with different water. Still infected, then it's not the water, move on to some other possible source of contamination, and so on...

One thing you mentioned was that you are using an immersion chiller, any chance you have leak there? How well are you cleaning and sanitizing the chiller? (There was a guy at my brew shop who was marvelling at how clean his chiller looks when he takes it out of the wort, guess he's not thinking about how dirty that means it is on the way in!)


Oh and Boston Brewer - This is an extreme case, infections are not as common as they seem, get thee brewing!
 
Jadad dog

I thought of leaks but I haven't checked yet. The strangest thin is that I got 2 good batches between the bad ones. My chiller is not easy to clean because it a coil within a coil and wound tight with no spaces. I made when I was a noobie and didn't think or even know it would build up crud on it. I need to make a new one. I occasionally clean it with one step. If it goes into the boil for 15 min would it matter if it had some crap left on it?
 
I would also suggest changing water sources. Those machines are nasty.

If you haven't yet, I would replace all hoses and plastic in your brewery. Hose and racking canes are cheap. 8 batches spoiled isn't. Also, I would cut out using a secondary. If it is airborne, then you'll have one less chance for it to get infected.

Also, clean that chiller. Drop it in a solution of Pbw or Oxyclean and let it soak. Then rinse and soak in a vinegar solution for a short period of time. Rinse, then soak in star san.

Whatever you do, don't give up. You can beat this thing.
 
Lately it never makes it to the secondary. The only thing it touches after the boil is a funnel (soaked in starsan) and the carboy. I have one in the primary which I am 95% sure is bad. It smells like the last really bad one. I feel like this is like beer cancer and I need chemo.
I appreciate all of the help from everyone. It keeps me pumped.
 
This really sounds like something in the air. You could take all your gear to a buddy's house and follow your normal procedure, minus the questionable water. If you can get through primary okay there then it's probably your house.

Man, I thought I was discouraged after a few batches fermented too warm... hope you find the problem.
 
Daveyboy sent be some info on how to figure it out. It appears to be brett and pedio as it is both sour and has the bandaid taste. It also keeps bubbling and has a shiny slime over bubbles that I thought was krausen. I read that brett is very hard to get rid of and some wineries that get it use it as part of the wines character. I find this wierd but hey I don't drink wine. Appearantly wood is a problem, and most of my house has wood ceilings.
 
jdoiv said:
If you haven't yet, I would replace all hoses and plastic in your brewery. Hose and racking canes are cheap. 8 batches spoiled isn't. Also, I would cut out using a secondary. If it is airborne, then you'll have one less chance for it to get infected.
Click to expand...

This is the first thing I would do. Actually I fairly routinely change out my hose (every 5-10 batches) just to avoid an infection.

Second, switch water. If you're on a municiple/public water source, it's probably cleaner than the water you're getting from the store.

Third, I would venture your pets. I've never had an infection and I'm pretty sloppy with my sanitation, but I don't have pets. I've speculated before that of most people that suffer from frequent/periodic infections, the onle common thread would be pets. This doesn't mean that all people that have pets get infections, but ...

jdoiv said:
Also, clean that chiller. Drop it in a solution of Pbw or Oxyclean and let it soak. Then rinse and soak in a vinegar solution for a short period of time. Rinse, then soak in star san.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't hurt anything, but if you're dropping it in for the last 15 min. of the boil, then you probably don't need to. I've never once scrubbed my chiller. All I do is rinse the hops/trub off after and rinse the dust off before.
 
srm775 said:
... Third, I would venture your pets. ...
A bit :off: : on the surface, you'd think so. But many animals are probably cleaner than we are!;) I've had a cat for as long as I've been brewing and I know other brewers who have pets. And we've been either infection free or no more or less susceptible than anyone else.

Look at how fifthy babies and toddlers are with their snotty noses, poopy diapers and all the godawful diseases they bring home from those concentration camps they call "preschools". Yet, people don't banish their precious little Emily and Joshua from the brew room, do they?

No, as others have posted, I'm betting this is either something wrong in the sanitation process or the water - particularly if using top-off water. As an experiment, I'd boil all your water next brew session and see if that solves the problem.

FWIW, I rarely if ever have to "clean" my immersion chiller. Drop it into the boiling wort with at least 15 mins. left in the boil and that will sanitize it. When done, I fill a bucket with some of the circulated water from the IC, then drop the IC in for a quick soak after the wort has been siphoned. That's it!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Rhoobarb said:
A bit :off: : on the surface, you'd think so. But many animals are probably cleaner than we are!;) I've had a cat for as long as I've been brewing and I know other brewers who have pets. And we've been either infection free or no more or less susceptible than anyone else.
Click to expand...

Still :off:

I don't know about you, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that my favorite thing in the world isn't eating cat/deer crap like I've seen with EVERY dog then licking my crouch (well, ok that parts true). :) Now, kids are a different story and if he had mentioned he was letting little petri dishes help him then I would have pointed out that that was his problem.

I just meant that of the people I've seen that had infections and/or periodic infections, one common element was pets.
 
srm775 said:
... then licking my crouch (well, ok that parts true). :) ...
Click to expand...
Got a laugh out of that!:D Since it's never happened to me, I'd be curous if it has others (with pets). Maybe I'll start a separate thread with a poll on this subject!
 
TheJadedDog said:
I know I am late to the party on this, but I would change one variable with each brew to isolate the problem. First try doing everything as normal but with different water. Still infected, then it's not the water, move on to some other possible source of contamination, and so on...

One thing you mentioned was that you are using an immersion chiller, any chance you have leak there? How well are you cleaning and sanitizing the chiller? (There was a guy at my brew shop who was marvelling at how clean his chiller looks when he takes it out of the wort, guess he's not thinking about how dirty that means it is on the way in!)


Oh and Boston Brewer - This is an extreme case, infections are not as common as they seem, get thee brewing!
Click to expand...
I don't think you need to sanitize the IC, just clean it, putting it in the wort while it is boiling will sanitze it.
 
I troubleshoot process/instrument problems in the medical diagnostic/pharma industry and contamination is a common problem in these laboratories. As other's have pointed out, the water source is a great place to start, however I thought I would offer some other advice.

Whenever folks in this field are convinced a problem is caused by contamination and they just haven't found the source, or been able to kill the bug causing the issue, it usually turns out to be something else. Inevitably, after someone (who hasn't learned this lesson yet) is completely frustrated, gives up, and calls for help; someone else comes in and looks over the entire process with an unbiased view, points out the problem immediately, and it has nothing to do with contamination.

My point is, take a step back and consider all possible causes of these symptoms. Pitching/Fermentation temps? Residual sanitizer?
 
Like someone else stated previously, I have had batches that were fermented way to warm and have ended up with flavors that I thought were infections for sure. Ends up it was just fermentation temperature. What temps are you fermenting at?

Also, I have been using vending machine water for years without any problems. Even if the water did have some form of bacteria, wouldn't your boil take care of anything that might be in there? Just my thoughts on the matter.

Good luck with figuring out the problem and stick with it.

Cheers:mug:
 
Boston Brewer said:
As a newbie yet to do my first brew, how common is infection? I have read Palmer's book and Papazian's, and it seems as if you make sure everything is clean and sanitized, you shouldn't have any problems.

Stories like this one (I feel terrible for you, man!) almost make me scared to brew, despite the RDWHAHB mantra... :eek:

Sorry if this is a hijack.
Click to expand...
Don't be put off.

I've done over 300 gallons this year alone and had one bad batch. My fault. Tried to use a yeast that sat out too long.

Infections are much more rare than legend holds.

In this case, I'd recommend getting to the simplest of scenarios. Use some hot mild bleach solution to clean everything (I use bleach)...put together a simple recipe...do a full boil...chill your wort as quickly as you can..and pitch a dry ( nottingham) yeast.

Get back to basics.
 
Fermentation temps around 73. I doo DME so I don't boil all of my water. The machines worked great for the first 6 to 8 months and I recall they changed them with some shiney new ones. I can just picture the ultraviolet light inside just flickering.
 
A full boil might not be a bad idea if you can facilitate the larger pot.
Better hop utilization, clearer product, and cleaner taste.

A hot vinigar soak will help clean up that copper. I'll run hot vinigar thru my CFC from timt to time.
 
Have all of them fermented around 73? I'd really try bringing that down into the mid to high 60s. Try a big tub full of water supplemented with some frozen water bottles, or frozen 1/2 gal juice containers.

You can get a tub at a hardware store for around $10.
 
I agree. Depending on the strain of yeast, that 73 degrees is probably one of your biggest problems and may be a relatively easy fix. Good luck.

Cheers
 
I haven't read all the replies here, so please shoot me if I have repeated what 20 other people have said, but two things struck me in the original post. First, with a problem like that, I wouldn't rely on Starsan. I would sterilize everything that can be boiled. Everything else I would use a bleach solution on.

Second, you mention that you have "one starter left." Couldn't that be your problem there? Throw that sucker out and buy some new yeast.

Good luck with your brewing! Things will get better. Don't give up now.

RDWHAHB
 
I taste the starters and they are good. Just got back from WalMart with water. Filled the primary carboy with a strong bleach solution. I took it out in the sun and had a good look at it and it did have a light residue inside even after oxiclean and starsan. I think I might be on to it now.
 
Ok,

first throw away every bit of tubing you own. siphon lines racking canes, bottling wands, everything. Replacing these parts will cost well less than $50.00 and is worth it every once in a while. Second try a simple all extract batch with a very aggressive yeast like a heff. Third invest in a 99 cent spray mister bottle from wal mart and fill it up with an iodopher solution or other no rinse sanitizer. Buy spring water from the store, pre-sanitize everything you need to brew, and bring it all outside. Do the entire batch outside and bring the CLOSED fermenter into the house. If your batch is still infected you are cursed...
 
The only thing the cool wort touches is a funnel, aeriator which I boiled, new tubing, and the carboy. They usually don't make it out of the primary good. I have tried hefe and the same problem there.
Good news. I just kegged the second batch out of ten that was good. Whew! It's in the fridge now.
 
BierMuncher said:
... In this case, I'd recommend getting to the simplest of scenarios. Use some hot mild bleach solution to clean everything (I use bleach)...put together a simple recipe...do a full boil...chill your wort as quickly as you can..and pitch a dry ( nottingham) yeast.

Get back to basics.
Click to expand...

+1 on what BM states here on full boil and nottingham dry yeast. All my bad batches or substandard brews to the best of my knowledge have been yeast (re-using too much) or too high of a temp during ferment.

I know you mentioned AG and that'd be great but I think you should tackle this 1st. No sense adding 2+ hours to the process to make more bad beer.
 
do you have an air conditioning vent in your kitchen ,if so turn off the air till you get through and the beer in safley in the fermentor,try cooling wort with an ice bath with the lid on your kettle,dont breath directly at or over your brew kettle ,dont sneeze in the area of your wort and by all means never set down the spoon your stiring your wort with .damn dude regroup.chill out go and buy a store bought beer and drink ,now after tasting that crapy store bought beer ya think you could give it another try ,never give up ,lmao.
 
I recently got over a string (well, two) of infected batches in a row. Finally, I discovered a ring of black in my siphon hose (some kind of infection) right after the hose clamp. In both cases, I had this kind of sweet but funky smell that was the same in both batches that overpowered the flavor of the beer. With the first infection, I noticed some black cloudiness on the top of the brew in the secondary. The second was a porter, so didn't see anything suspect. I replaced the siphon hoses and sanitized the cane, starting using yeast starters and have had three infection-free batches since.

And for what it's worth, i've always used one-step as a sanitizer and 1 gallon spring water jugs from the grocer for my brewing water.
 
OK guys I ran another batch yesterday. I used bottled water, boiled it inside and took it directly outside to cool with an EC, aeriated and & pitched the yeast all outside. The starter tasted good. Now I'm a little scared. It cranked up within 10 hours but I'm getting that grassy smell again. I never noticed this in the past when I was getting good batches. One other thing I noticed is that the only two batches that were good were a lighter beer with only 1 oz. of hops. Any thoughts?
 
John Palmer on Grassy Off-flavors:
Grassy
Flavors reminiscent of chlorophyll and fresh cut grass occasionally occur and are most often linked to poorly stored ingredients. Poorly stored malt can pick up moisture and develop musty smells. Aldehydes can form in old malt and can contribute green grass flavors. Hops are another source of these green flavors. If the hops are poorly stored or not properly dried prior to storage, the chlorophyll compounds will become evident in the beer.


Where are you getting your ingredients?
 
San Antonio HBS. Could these ingredients cause a problem such as infections even if they are oiled?

Just threw out the last batch (#10) really foul! Pumpkin orange, extreemely sweet.
The tastes keep varying. I don't know how to describe it.
 
Do you dump the bad beer outside? If so is it on the South side of your house?
I do this and I'm starting to wonder if that might be keeping it going.
Where is Topperwein?
 
rohanski said:
OK guys I ran another batch yesterday. I used bottled water, boiled it inside and took it directly outside to cool with an EC, aeriated and & pitched the yeast all outside. The starter tasted good. Now I'm a little scared. It cranked up within 10 hours but I'm getting that grassy smell again. I never noticed this in the past when I was getting good batches. One other thing I noticed is that the only two batches that were good were a lighter beer with only 1 oz. of hops. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

What hops are you using? I've noticed that certain hops give more of a grassy taste/aroma then others as they're supposed to do. Perhaps you're using a hop that isn't exactly right for the beer.
 
I can't remember off hand but I have made it many times in the past and it never seemed to do this. Every time I get this smell in the primary it has been bad. Of course everything has been bad lately.
 
rohanski said:
Do you dump the bad beer outside? If so is it on the South side of your house?
I do this and I'm starting to wonder if that might be keeping it going.
Where is Topperwein?
Click to expand...
No, I pour it in the toilet or down the sink drain. I am in San Antonio.
 

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