Yeast Washing Illustrated

Anyboby ever/any reason not to use the shot dispensers you put on a bottle of hard alcohol to drop the trub and other random crap? (Aside from it being just about impossible to clean and sanitize properly.)

chrisbarnes5000 said:

Anyboby ever/any reason not to use the shot dispensers you put on a bottle of hard alcohol to drop the trub and other random crap? (Aside from it being just about impossible to clean and sanitize properly.)

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You mean the ones where the shots are dispensed from the bottom (ie, the bottle is upside down)? That might be useful.

fratermus said:

You mean the ones where the shots are dispensed from the bottom (ie, the bottle is upside down)? That might be useful.

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Yea! Thats the ones. I figure they could be used to make a bottle like a temporary conical to dump the trub.

This may have been asked earlier in the thread, but I honestly don't have time to read 37 pages of a thread. Here's my sitiation....

Just brewed an AB clone about 1.070...I pitched onto the cake of a Brown Ale, Wyeast American Ale, that was previously washed. The thing fermented like crazy, the Krausen settled after about 3 days. I'm assuming this would be a prime opportunity to wash this yeast, and get another 4-5 mason jars of this yeast with a high cell count.

I'm just not sure if this yeast will be too stressed or not, wutchu think?

I am adding this just as a data point for others using this method:

I just used my first "washed yeast" collected using the steps outlined in this thread. The pitched example looked exactly as pictured in OP (the 1/2 pt jar on the right). I estimate that I had about 5ml of slurry.

The yeast was 3 months old (washed on 12/29/08) and pitch on 3/29/09 into a 2 qt starter. It took 18 hrs to show signs of activity (note - no stir plate, just lots of shaking) and was rocking like crazy at 24 hrs.

I pitched at near peak activity (no decanting) into 5.5 gals of oatmeal stout. It started bubbling within 6-8 hours and was pushing out the blow tube sometime between 10-18 hrs from pitching (basically sometime during the night).

I am anxous the see the final Attentuation numbers, but expect they will be on the low side given the nature of the grain bill.

Thanks to Bernie Brewer for posting this!!!!

Yes, many thanks to Bernie for this post. I tried my first attempt at yeast washing a Wyeast 1056 cake from an Amber Ale brewed three weeks ago. I got two small jars of some very nice looking yeast in the fridge as I type this.

I do have a question that has been addressed before but not in much detail. The amber was a higher OG, 1.076, and I know there has been much speculation on mutation from high OG cakes. What is the highest OG others have used washed yeast from? I'm thinking of using it next week in an IPA.

Question: How long does washed yeast last? And how to tell when it goes bad?

I have about dozen or so different jars of washed yeast that have been sitting around in my fridge for about 3 months now, and I recently noticed that some of the yeast samples are starting to turn brown/grey. Though, when opened they don't smell bad and taste fine. It it normal for yeast to change color when stored like this, or does it just mean the yeasts going bad - Should I throw them away, or try brewing with them? Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Johnny9 said:

I am adding this just as a data point for others using this method:

I just used my first "washed yeast" collected using the steps outlined in this thread. The pitched example looked exactly as pictured in OP (the 1/2 pt jar on the right). I estimate that I had about 5ml of slurry.

The yeast was 3 months old (washed on 12/29/08) and pitch on 3/29/09 into a 2 qt starter. It took 18 hrs to show signs of activity (note - no stir plate, just lots of shaking) and was rocking like crazy at 24 hrs.

I pitched at near peak activity (no decanting) into 5.5 gals of oatmeal stout. It started bubbling within 6-8 hours and was pushing out the blow tube sometime between 10-18 hrs from pitching (basically sometime during the night).

I am anxous the see the final Attentuation numbers, but expect they will be on the low side given the nature of the grain bill.

Thanks to Bernie Brewer for posting this!!!!

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UPDATE:
ATT = 74% (WLP-004). That's 3 month old yeast. According to Mr. Malty viability should have been around 10% with my sample. Probably still under pitched, but it definitely did the job.

peace :rockin:

Johnny9 said:

UPDATE:
ATT = 74% (WLP-004). That's 3 month old yeast. According to Mr. Malty viability should have been around 10% with my sample. Probably still under pitched, but it definitely did the job.

peace :rockin:

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Good to know. Just this past weekend I decided spur-of-the-moment to brew a ~1.068 Stout...I just pitched 2 washed/decanted half-pint mason jars of washed yeast...one of which was 3 month old WLP004 (the other was 1 month old Wyeast Pacman yeast). Both of these jars had a good 30mL of 'cake' so, depending on viability, should be a decent amount. It took off slower than normal (took about 24 hours) but it's chugging like crazy now.

Just wondering if anybody has tried these techniques and or has ideas about them...

Proceed as you normally would and wash your yeast down to a pint jar. Let the yeast settle out of solution as will naturally happen. THEN decant the majority of your liquid off and transfer to a baby food jar. The advantage of this is obviously, space.

In a similar vein, you could decant most of the liquid off all of your pint jars of the same yeast strain and transfer the yeast from all of them into one pint jar. This way you have one jar of yeast totally filled with yeast and could pour out some when needed into a batch. Once again, space saver.

In my head, these both sound like great ideas. Usually that means I'm overlooking something. Anybody have thoughts?

So regarding the pictures on the sticky...............the far right is what the final product will look like. When you say pour off most of the liquid and pitch........you want less of the liquid and everything that is settled out, or less of the liquid and try not to disturb the settled stuff? I will be attempting this with my WY3068 in my Apfelwein.

eric1489 said:

So regarding the pictures on the sticky...............the far right is what the final product will look like. When you say pour off most of the liquid and pitch........you want less of the liquid and everything that is settled out, or less of the liquid and try not to disturb the settled stuff? I will be attempting this with my WY3068 in my Apfelwein.

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You want less of the liquid and everything that has settled out. I pour most of the liquid out, put the cover back on, and give the jar a good shake to get everything into suspension. then pitch into your starter.

Got a starter/yeast washing question. I washed the cake from my last batch (WLP400), and pitched about a quarter of it to a starter...where it promptly blew out of the top of the airlock. I went to wash it off, resanitize, etc... and had a good amount of yeast (1/2" or so) in the airlock. I had filled the airlock with iodophor solution and wasn't sure what the effect would be on the yeast sitting in the airlock or if I could pour it back into the starter. I decided to play it safe and pour out the airlock, but am now wondering if I just negated the effect of a starter. Any thoughts?

Hey all,

I tried a yeast wash off of my hefe. The trub in the primary was so thick it wouldn't separate, so I tried it off of the secondary. Here is what I have;



Is this enough? The baby food jars are 6 oz, and the others I don't remember. Should I scrap this or just double up/use all of them? Thanks for any input.

You really want to use the yeast in the primary. That is not a lot of yeast, and it will not be as good as the primary yeast would have been.

WortMonger said:

You really want to use the yeast in the primary. That is not a lot of yeast, and it will not be as good as the primary yeast would have been.

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Guess I will shell out 6 bones and start over! I just figured I could make one out of it. The trub in the prime was all stuck together; had to really break it up to get it out. After about an hour or two it hadn't even started to separate. Just trying to figure out if I did anything wrong.

Excellent! I never did this, but you make it look easy. I might have to give this a try now that yeast is a major cost to homebrewing for me.

Hey

If i am constantly using WLP 001 or Wyeast 1056

Will this idea work?

Make a triple or quadruple sized starter. Let it sit on the stirplate for a few days until i see all the bubbles calm down. Put in the fridge for a day to settle. Then decant and mix with water and split into jars just like in Bernie's tutorial here? So i guess basically wash the starter as long as i make a really big starter? I'm brewing once or twice a week so I'd use the yeast I collect within 5-6 weeks..

Anyone done that before?

I just washed some Wyeast 1056 today froma primary of soem Autumn Ale I racked to secondary.
Stored in four 8 oz (half pint) mason jars. I'll let you know how it works for me.

Tried this for the first time last night, I'm guessing it's a bit easier for you guys as you all seem to use glass fermenters, here in the UK plastic FV's are the norm. Which makes it hard to say what you're pouring into the jars.

I think it worked though, will have to post some pictures later. I only have two jars as that's all my SO would allow in the fridge

Ok I just pitched the yeast into the starter, but I forgot to shake it so most of it was stuck to the bottom still, not wanting to use unboiled water I poured some of the liquid from one of my others jars (wasn't warmed up) into the jar I just pitched, gave it a good shake and got most of the stuff out and into the Demi John.

I hope that's ok, oh and it looked like this before I pitched it. What do people think?



edit: woops biiiiiig image

Awesome I have been wondering how to do it right and I have been all along, Thanks alot

cimirie said:

Just wondering if anybody has tried these techniques and or has ideas about them...

Proceed as you normally would and wash your yeast down to a pint jar. Let the yeast settle out of solution as will naturally happen. THEN decant the majority of your liquid off and transfer to a baby food jar. The advantage of this is obviously, space.

In a similar vein, you could decant most of the liquid off all of your pint jars of the same yeast strain and transfer the yeast from all of them into one pint jar. This way you have one jar of yeast totally filled with yeast and could pour out some when needed into a batch. Once again, space saver.

In my head, these both sound like great ideas. Usually that means I'm overlooking something. Anybody have thoughts?

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I had the same exact same idea. Based on the yeast to liquid ratio in the half pint jars its seems logical to me. Just pour off the majority of the "beer" on top shake the yeast back up in the remaining liquid and pour it into a sterilized baby food jar. I'm pretty sure this is the route I'm going, I'll just plan on making starters for my future batches.

Just tried doing this again and came to the conclusion that my time energy expended on doing this just aint worth it. This combined with taking up valuable fridge space... I'm tabling this for the time being.

Maybe this'll change in the future but for me it is not worth it.

I do appreciate the insightful post on how to do it though..

My .02

I just started saving baby food jars for this purpose so I don't have to buy another dozen pint jars. Does anyone trade yeast? I don't think I need 4 of certain yeasts, and it's a shame to just toss them.

Beerrific said:

I racked my mild today and harvested the yeast. My method: racked the beer, added 2 liters of sterile water, stirred up all the yeast/trub and poured it back into the liter jars. This is my normal practice, I will chill that overnight and usually see three distinct layers: beer on top, yeast, then trub on the bottom. The next morning I will pour the yeast layer into another jar. The yeast is usually noticeable because it is creamy white.

So this time the colors are throwing me.

This has only been in the fridge for a couple hours, but what do you think? Is the white on the bottom yeast or trub? Is the dark stuff yeast? This is wyeast 1968, it tends to be very chunky.

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I've washed a couple of batches, and the 1968 I did looked exactly like that too. I wasn't sure, either, what part of it was trub, so I combined all 3 jars together (decanting most of the "beer" from all 3, and then pouring all but the very bottom of the 2 into the last one) - so hopefully I covered all my bases. I pitched into a batch of porter yesterday afternoon and it's not going yet (it's at 68*), but I'm not worrying about it yet.

Beerific - did you ever get clarification on the 1968 washed yeast?

Just wanted to thank Bernie for posting this thread. I've used this method a few times. It works really well and isn't hard to do. I won't have to buy yeast for a long time.

Is there any reason not to do this with a 2qt mason jar and two 1 qt mason jars as opposed to the 2qt and 4 pint jars?

And if not, would I need a starter for each of the 1qt jars of yeast other than enough to ensure that they are in fact alive?

Bernie Brewer said:

Boil it for about 20 minutes or so. This will sanitize everything as well as get rid of any oxygen in the water, so the yeasties will take a nice long nap. Then remove the jars and lids with the tongs, keeping them full of water.

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Bernie Brewer said:

Pour the water from the jars into the carboy

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I have to disagree with the notion that this method will remove the dissolved oxygen from the water. The amount of dissolved oxygen is a function of temperature and pressure (for instance, by applying a vacuum oxygen is not allowed to go back into the water). The boiling water does remove the dissolved oxygen; however, you are refrigerating the water and then exposing the water back to the air. But the main reason I take issue with saying the oxygen has been removed is with your method of introducing the water into the carboy. The water will most certainly be very oxygenated as it falls high and slowly through the funnel and down into the yeast like a waterfall, and splashing. Much less oxygenation is needed to keep an aquarium thriving. I realize that you are going about your methods to keep good sanitation, but I think it's misleading to say that the water is not oxygenated...just the opposite.

If I'm washing and brewing/pitching on the same day, how many ounces of suspended yeast solution should I pitch directly into the freshly boiled and cooled wort. I won't have time to make a starter since I will be bottling washing and brewing in a span of about 6 or 7 hours.

danielinva said:

If I'm washing and brewing/pitching on the same day, how many ounces of suspended yeast solution should I pitch directly into the freshly boiled and cooled wort. I won't have time to make a starter since I will be bottling washing and brewing in a span of about 6 or 7 hours.

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If you are brewing the same day, don't bother washing. Just dump on the old yeast cake. Washing is for long term storage.

I'm doing the same thing and plan on washing before I pitch on the next beer. Pitching on the cake is overpitching, so why not wash it, use part of the yeast now and store the rest?

I suppose I should have mentioned that I can't overpitch as I'll be brewing a hefeweizen. If I were to go unwashed, how much of the cake should I pitch? If I do wash, how much of the washed, but probably unsettled yeast should be pitched?

Here's my latest harvest from a simple recipe, that used Burton Ale..





Is the top layer yeast and the bottom layer trub? If it is, I'm surprised that I had that much trub, because I thought it was a relatively clean recipe (light on the hops)...



I'm thinking about washing it again by decanting off all the liquid and topping off with a new set of cooled down boiled water. Any thoughts on if this is worth it or not?

If you made and extract brew and used hop pellets, there is practically no trube. In this case, is it absolutely necessary to wash the yeast or can I simply rack the beer off the primary cake, leaving a little bit of liquid behind to work with, swirl everything up, and bottle for future use?

ChshreCat said:

I'm doing the same thing and plan on washing before I pitch on the next beer. Pitching on the cake is overpitching, so why not wash it, use part of the yeast now and store the rest?

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What's wrong with overpitching?

Scott

scottlindner said:

What's wrong with overpitching?

Scott

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There can be many things. Many of the esters yeast create are put out during the growth phase, so if you're making a style where you want those then you're missing out.

You could get yeasty flavors because of the large amount of yeast present in your primary.

More trub because of more yeast.

You'll get a fast ferment, which can mean higher temps in your primary. For those of us who have to work to keep our temps down, especially this time of year, that's a bad thing.

While autolysis may be a boogieman when it comes to home brewing, I would think that it could come into play if you're dumping 2 or 3 beers in a row on the same pile of dead yeast at the bottom of your fermenter.

When it comes down to it, my thought is that if you really only need half or less of that yeast cake, why not wash it, split it up and get two or more batches out of it anyway.

What's wrong with overpitching?

Scott

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Chshre Cat is right BUT. . . I just finished primarying a hefe on top of a yeast cake. Others may be pursuing different flavors/styles, but the wort I tasted while transferring to the secondary was right on target for my goals. It may turn out badly, or worst that it otherwise would have been, but it satisfied my needs, and pitching on top of the cake really helped me out of a time crunch!

SPEAKING of the hefe that I just transferred, here's MY question:

I washed the yeast from the primary today - long time brewer, first time washer. The yeast I harvested is going to be hanging out in my fridge for quite a while, at least a month, probably longer. It might end up getting transferred to a freezer bank.

Regardless, I know I'll need to make a starter to get the yeast going again. That said, is there any way to know if the yeast is still active before I pitch? I really don't want to waste 5 gallons of wort on yeast that I didn't wash properly. . .

ChshreCat said:

While autolysis may be a boogieman when it comes to home brewing, I would think that it could come into play if you're dumping 2 or 3 beers in a row on the same pile of dead yeast at the bottom of your fermenter.

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I'm not saying my tastebuds are good, but I have been doing 3-4 batches back to back on a single cake for years. I don't want to do anything stupid either so I'm intrigued by this discussion. Other than extra trub, I don't see what makes an active yeast cake any different than a starter of the same count of yeasties. Is there something different between the two I don't get?

Scott

scottlindner said:

I'm not saying my tastebuds are good, but I have been doing 3-4 batches back to back on a single cake for years. I don't want to do anything stupid either so I'm intrigued by this discussion. Other than extra trub, I don't see what makes an active yeast cake any different than a starter of the same count of yeasties. Is there something different between the two I don't get?

Scott

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The growth stage would be the big thing. Even with a starter, you get a growth stage when you pitch it in your wort and the yeast eat up the O2 and multiply.

I'm not saying that pitching onto a cake is going to automatically do ANYTHING bad to your beer. Enough people do it that I'd be pretty dumb saying it. But, depending on your beer, you might be missing out on good things that can happen for your beer if you don't have that growth phase.

Jamil says some interesting things about it in his podcasts, especially the Brew Strong cast about repitching yeast.