First time brewing- Questions about wort chilling and boiling

Next week I am going to make my first brew using a beginner's set with buckets. I am going to make a wort chiller this weekend and was wondering if that is something I should use for my first batch. I know I need to watch the temperature on my wort during the cooling process but other than that, is there any other things I should be careful of when using a wort chiller?

Also, I see many walkthroughs recommend using 2.5 gal of water when doing your first wort. If I do have access to pot that can handle all 5 gal, plus a wort chiller to bring it down to 80F fast enough, is there any reason I shouldn't do it all at once?

I'm not to worried about the transfer since I'm using the plastic bucket that came with the kit and it should be fairly easy. Just leave the stuff at the bottom of the boiling pot there, correct?

If you are going to have a wort chiller, then I would by all means use it. If its brand new, wipe it down with some mild soapy water and it goes in with 15 minutes left in the boil to sterilize it. That's it.

So I don't really need to be too concerned with using star san on it then. thanks for the info. I will be posting an update on this when it's finished.

lawle102 said:

Also, I see many walkthroughs recommend using 2.5 gal of water when doing your first wort. If I do have access to pot that can handle all 5 gal, plus a wort chiller to bring it down to 80F fast enough, is there any reason I shouldn't do it all at once?

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If you have a large enough pot, use it and do the full boil. Just be sure you have a good enough burner to boil that volume of wort. (Stove tops don't cut it well at that volume - unless you have a good gas stove)

I have a turkey fryer burner, would that handle it? I just wouldn't want to over do it on my first outing and get in over my head.

lawle102 said:

I have a turkey fryer burner, would that handle it? I just wouldn't want to over do it on my first outing and get in over my head.

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That'll do just fine. I brew on a turkey fryer.

Perfect. Looks like I shouldn't be in too bad of shape then. Just take my time and follow the steps. Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.

I'm sure this goes without saying, but given the time of year and that you're a new brewer, I'll say it anyway. If you're brewing with a turkey fryer, make sure you're either using it outside or in an area with adequate ventilation such as a garage with the door mostly open. Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning is a great way to end your brewing career before it begins.

Also, if you're doing a full boil for a 5 gallon batch, you'll probably need to start with somewhere between 6 and 7 gallons of wort pre-boil to hit 5~ gallons after a 60 min. boil, to account for boil off. If you're using a kettle that is in the 30 quart (7.5 gal) range, as most turkey fryers are, keep a real close eye on the kettle as it approaches a boil. If you're already cutting it close on head space, that burner could give you quite a boil over. You definitely don't want to lose all that wort, or to clean it up once it's spilled out. If a full boil isn't going to work, just plan on topping off with some additional water to hit 5 gallons.

As for the chiller, I would recommend soaking it in StarSan for a good half hour before putting it into the kettle with 15 minutes to go in the boil. The StarSan will eat away any oxidation that may be on the outside of the copper tubing, instead of letting it get stripped into your beer. People are always surprised at how shiny and "buttery" their copper looks when they pull it out of the kettle, and even more surprised when their beer tastes like oxidized copper. The 15 minute boil will sanitize it, killing any nasties that are along for the ride. You'll appreciate the impact of having a chiller vs. using an ice water bath. It will shave a lot of time off of your brew day, and it can give you a better cold break, meaning more junk settles out of your beer.

Speaking of junk in you're beer, you are correct that you don't want to siphon all of that into your fermenter. All that stuff is called trub (pronounced "troob"). While it won't exactly hurt your beer, you're better off not having it go into the fermenter or it can give you off flavors and murky beer. It will also lower your overall bottling volume because you won't want to suck that stuff into your bottling bucket once the beer is done fermenting. Many brewers will create a simple whirlpool in their beer while it's chilling by gently stirring the wort with the paddle. This will help the solids in your beer to gather into a cone in the center of your kettle, allowing you to siphon clean(er) wort from the side of the kettle. I usually whirlpool for about 10 minutes, and then let things settle for the duration of the cooling.

Sorry, but one last thing. Make sure you're cooling the wort to at least the upper end of the temp range for your yeast. 80* seems pretty high to me. Most yeasts would prefer to start their work day closer to the 65* to 70* range. 80* won't kill them, but it may cause them to throw some off flavors into your beer that you won't like all that much.

Good luck with your first brew, and welcome to the world of obsessed home brewers!

Witt, you brought up a good point about the transfer from boil to fermenter. Do I need to siphon or just gently pour the wort to the fermenter?

lawle102 said:

Witt, you brought up a good point about the transfer from boil to fermenter. Do I need to siphon or just gently pour the wort to the fermenter?

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Pour it right into the bucket. No need to be gentle. You're going to need to aerate the wort.

Trub or no trub is a personal preference. Using a bucket as a fermentor the easiest way to strain out the trub is with a 5 gallon nylon disposable paint strainer. I buy mine at Sherwin-Williams. I have fermented with and without trub.

It's your first brew... make it simple.

MuchoGusto said:

Pour it right into the bucket. No need to be gentle. You're going to need to aerate the wort.

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Mucho is correct that you'll be doing the yeast a favor by aerating the wort, whether that's from pouring it into the fermenter or sloshing it around once it's in there. I think you'll find that using the auto siphon that presumably came with your kit will be a much easier way to transfer your wort. It will weigh roughly 8 lbs. per gallon, or somewhere around 40 lbs. total. That's more cumbersome than it sounds, especially if it's a liquid you're trying to pour from one container to the next.

Also, by pouring it you'll unavoidably kick up whatever trub has settled to the bottom of the kettle. My preference (and that's all it is) would be to whirlpool, siphon from the edge to leave the trub behind, put the lid on the ale pail (without the airlock in yet), and then slosh it around for a minute or two. That will introduce plenty of oxygen into your wort without introducing plenty of wort into your garage or kitchen.

lawle102 said:

I have a turkey fryer burner, would that handle it? I just wouldn't want to over do it on my first outing and get in over my head.

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Is the turkey fryer brand new or has it already been used several times? If brand new you may want to do a 15 minute full burn to get any of the "loose" paint on the stand burnt off prior to using this for beer.

Do you know if your turkey fryer has an automatic shutoff? These sometimes have a maximum of 15 minutes prior to having to be reset.

The pot is new. I also have a new and one used burner. I planned on doing a good clean on the pot, then sanitize. Then make my wort.

Any turkey fryer I have used has the 15 minute timer on it. Some of my friends tape the thing down, but I prefer to keep an eye on it.

So since I am using dry yeast, once I get the temperature of the wort down, I just pour it in, and leave it, correct? After I pitch the yeast, there is no need to aerate or anything else. Just put the vodka in my airlock and let her sit.

EDIT: And you guys thought this was about just boiling wort

Chilling your wort to 70-80 degree as quickly as possible will inhibit bacteria growth in the wort. I just use an ice bath to cool the brewing pot ( Ive even used a cool mountain stream to do this when I was brewing with a buddy, that was fun), about 10 lbs of ice surrounding the brewpot should cool it down in about 15 min. If you have a wortchiller then by all means use it, its a great tool.

As far as a full or partial boil, just make sure your full boil is aerated after it cools. Boiling takes gases out of the liquid. Dont think that boiling all of it and then adding yeast after it cools will work, The yeast needs O2 to thrive. Id boil half, add the rest of the water by pouring it really high and splashing it into the wort ( think fish aquarium, those arent just there cause they are cute, they are reoxygenating the water), until u are up to your 5 gallons, this also helps to cool down the wort post boil. That is just what i do and i never get chill haze or infection, and my yeast is always active the next day. Ive always heard full boil is better, but again, just make sure you splash it around a bunch.

Just remember, keep things simple, clean everything, and read up, because theres always more to learn. Oh and the #1 thing is enjoy yourself!!! As a new brewer you will constantly be worrying about your brew and will be broken heartered when a recipe sucks, but thats just part of the thrill.

As stated many times on this site:
"Relax man, have a homebrew!"

lawle102 said:

The pot is new. I also have a new and one used burner. I planned on doing a good clean on the pot, then sanitize. Then make my wort.

Any turkey fryer I have used has the 15 minute timer on it. Some of my friends tape the thing down, but I prefer to keep an eye on it.

So since I am using dry yeast, once I get the temperature of the wort down, I just pour it in, and leave it, correct? After I pitch the yeast, there is no need to aerate or anything else. Just put the vodka in my airlock and let her sit.

EDIT: And you guys thought this was about just boiling wort

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If the pot is aluminum you will need to condition it to build up an oxide layer prior to exposing this to your wort. Fill the pot with as much water as possible and do a 45-60 minute boil. This will create a dark oxide layer on the inner surface of the pot that will keep the wort from interacting with the aluminum surface. Do not try to scrub this layer off. I did not know to condition a new aluminum pot for my first all grain and ended up with a metallic tasting beer 6 weeks later that I had to throw out.

You may want to read/search about rehydrating your dry yeast prior to pitching. I heat 2/3 of cup of water in the microwave and then let this cool down to 85-90 F prior to sprinkling on my yeast. Cover with a paper towel and pitch 15-20 min later.

Ok, so after reading the FAQ regarding the use of Stainless vs. Aluminum, I will probably stick with using stainless. I don't want to risk trashing my first batch to oxidization. I know I have a stainless kettle around that will handle 5 gallons of wort. But after searching around a bit, I see some places offer kettles with built in ball valves near the base of the kettle. Is this so you can directly transfer to your fermentation container without moving the kettle?

lawle102 said:

Ok, so after reading the FAQ regarding the use of Stainless vs. Aluminum, I will probably stick with using stainless. I don't want to risk trashing my first batch to oxidization. I know I have a stainless kettle around that will handle 5 gallons of wort. But after searching around a bit, I see some places offer kettles with built in ball valves near the base of the kettle. Is this so you can directly transfer to your fermentation container without moving the kettle?

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Whether you have a valve or not, you can transfer without moving the kettle. It just requires a siphon if you don't have a valve.

lawle102 said:

Ok, so after reading the FAQ regarding the use of Stainless vs. Aluminum, I will probably stick with using stainless. I don't want to risk trashing my first batch to oxidization. I know I have a stainless kettle around that will handle 5 gallons of wort. But after searching around a bit, I see some places offer kettles with built in ball valves near the base of the kettle. Is this so you can directly transfer to your fermentation container without moving the kettle?

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Yes, the ball valve is for transfer. Are you brewing a kit? What is it specifically? It takes plenty of burner and propane to boil 5 gallons.

I'm brewing a kit from home brewer's outpost. It's called North Rim Wheat. The one page instructions included with it recommend a 2.5 gallon boil. Also, they say not to re-hydrate the yeast, just pitch it after aeration. Should I just go with the easy instructions first?

lawle102 said:

I'm brewing a kit from home brewer's outpost. It's called North Rim Wheat. The one page instructions included with it recommend a 2.5 gallon boil. Also, they say not to re-hydrate the yeast, just pitch it after aeration. Should I just go with the easy instructions first?

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Which kit? They have an all grain and a mini mash. I'm guessing you have the mini-mash with a liquid malt extract.

What brand and type of dry yeast do you have?

Yeah it's got the malt extract with it. My yeast is nottingham something, can't remember the entire name.

lawle102 said:

Yeah it's got the malt extract with it. My yeast is nottingham something, can't remember the entire name.

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That's fine. Use 6 gallons in the kettle to start, add more water at the end if you need to to top up to 5 gallons and then make a note of how much you boil off. In the winter (which is dry here), I boil off a bit more than 1.5 gallons per hour, but in the summer (which is a bit more humid), I boil off about a gallon per hour.

Cool the wort to under 70 degrees. Then move it to the fermenter. Splashing is good, as it aerates the wort. Then gently sprinkle the yeast on top and cover it and put the airlock (with some water in it!) on the top. That's it!

Yooper, I have seen many people use vodka in their airlock. After I sanitize the airlock, does the vodka act as a sterile fluid for the fermentation gases to bubble through? Should I use vodka my first time ? I know if everything works as it should, I should have constant pressure through the airlock until the fermentation finishes. But do I risk having the vodka flow back through the airlock into my fermentation bucket?

And another thing,, once you transfer to the fermenter, leave it there for 3 weeks.3 weeks. Period. Don't look at it, don't think about it, don't pop the lid to take a peak. Just leave it alone. And if you have any questions, DO A SEARCH BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION. Chances are someone asked that same question already and its been answered.

lawle102 said:

Yeah it's got the malt extract with it. My yeast is nottingham something, can't remember the entire name.

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I found the instructions for your kit. If I was brewing this kit this is what I would do.

1. Steep the 12 ozs. of specialty grains at 155 degrees in the 2.5 gallons of water for 45 minutes in the grain bag. Lift the bag up over the pot and put it in a colander. Pour 1 pint of 170 degree water evenly over the grain bag and let it drain for 2 or 3 minutes. I would add 1/2 gallon of water and bring it to a boil then turn off the heat.
2. Add the malt extract and stir well. Return to heat and bring to a gentle boil. BE CAREFUL at this point. It can boil over. I would not do a 5 gallon boil. It is not necessary. Once you have a nice controlled boil add the hops per instructions and start your timer. Once 60 minutes has elapsed turn off the heat and cool the wort to 80 degrees ASAP. Pour it into the sanitized primary bucket. Add room temp water to the 5 gallon mark on the bucket (if no mark determine the level beforehand). I use bottled water in 1 gal jugs. Stir the wort well and take a sample for specific gravity.
3. You need to aerate the wort at this point. The yeast need O2. I use pure O2. You can attach the lid and cover the airlock hole and shake the primary or rock it back and forth for a couple of minutes.
4. Pitch the yeast and stir. DanStar recommends rehydrating the yeast. Your instruction say do not rehydrate. I would rehydrate per DanStar instructions and pitch it. Some do and some don't. There are 1,000 ways to skin a cat. You choose. I would keep the primary at 70 degrees until signs of fermentation start then move it to a cooler location. Let it sit 2 weeks.

Keep it SIMPLE. Sanitize everything. You'll be fine.

lawle102 said:

Yooper, I have seen many people use vodka in their airlock. After I sanitize the airlock, does the vodka act as a sterile fluid for the fermentation gases to bubble through? Should I use vodka my first time ? I know if everything works as it should, I should have constant pressure through the airlock until the fermentation finishes. But do I risk having the vodka flow back through the airlock into my fermentation bucket?

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What size is you primary? I hope it's at least a 6 gallon. I always use a blowoff tube during fermentation.

lawle102 said:

Yooper, I have seen many people use vodka in their airlock. After I sanitize the airlock, does the vodka act as a sterile fluid for the fermentation gases to bubble through? Should I use vodka my first time ? I know if everything works as it should, I should have constant pressure through the airlock until the fermentation finishes. But do I risk having the vodka flow back through the airlock into my fermentation bucket?

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There is a chance of whatever liquid you use being sucked into the fermenter, which is why some people use alcohol. Personally, I use starsan. It's almost free if you are using it for other things, it is safe, and it even breaks down into yeast nutrient if it gets into your beer. Save the booze for other things.

lawle102 said:

Yooper, I have seen many people use vodka in their airlock. After I sanitize the airlock, does the vodka act as a sterile fluid for the fermentation gases to bubble through? Should I use vodka my first time ? I know if everything works as it should, I should have constant pressure through the airlock until the fermentation finishes. But do I risk having the vodka flow back through the airlock into my fermentation bucket?

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Yes, vodka keeps the nasties out. One thing to remember is that if you don't cool the wort down to at least your ambient room temps, you will get suck back through the airlock because of contraction. In other words, if your fermentation area is 65* you should cool the wort to below this temp before putting on the lid and airlock or it will suck the vodka into the fermenter as it cools to this room temp.
As far as leaving the trub behind, I use is a 10" mesh strainer ($13) from any brew shop. It will sit on the rim of your bucket. After cooling the wort, just pick up your kettle and dump everything through the strainer into the bucket. This will catch most of the hop gunk and cold break and you will not be wasting any wort. If you find that the strainer fills up with gunk, you can stop pouring, scrape out the strainer into the garbage with a sanitized spoon. Spray off the strainer with a hose and dunk it back into your bucket of sanitizer. You should always have a couple of gal. of sanitizer made up to keep everything wet. Ok, now after you get all of the wort into the bucket, set the strainer over the kettle and pour back into the kettle. Clean the strainer again if you need to. A good habit to get into when using dry yeast is to rehydrate it in a few ounces of water before using. Now is the time to pour that into your bucket and then pour the wort back on top of the yeast in the bucket. Then pour once more into the kettle and back into the bucket. Now you have sufficient aeration, most of your hops and coldbreak gunk is gone, and you didn't leave any beer in your kettle from trying to do a whirlpool. Now add the lid, airlock, and put away for a few weeks.
This all may sound complicated but it really takes all of 5 minutes and you wont be leaving a half gal. of wort behind.

Thanks to everyone for breaking this down so well for me. I am pretty sure I have the initial process covered with all the info here.

But one thing I am having trouble understanding, Do I cool the wort to 70 then add my topping water or do I add my topping water then cool to 70? It seems that if I cool to 70 then add my topping water I might run the risk of dropping the temperature below the 70 mark. But I guess if I leave my topping water at room temp, which would be 68-72, I shouldn't have any issues. Right?

lawle102 said:

Thanks to everyone for breaking this down so well for me. I am pretty sure I have the initial process covered with all the info here.

But one thing I am having trouble understanding, Do I cool the wort to 70 then add my topping water or do I add my topping water then cool to 70? It seems that if I cool to 70 then add my topping water I might run the risk of dropping the temperature below the 70 mark. But I guess if I leave my topping water at room temp, which would be 68-72, I shouldn't have any issues. Right?

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Cooling to under 70 is more difficult than you think, but if you can get it to 70 and then add your top off water, that would be good. You WANT to be way below 70, especially using nottingham yeast. Most ale yeasts are happiest in the mid 60s range, but nottingham would prefer to be low 60s and will work down to 57-58. It will be very clean in that range. I know a lot of ale yeasts say their optimum temperature is around 70F, but you really need to be below that.

Also good to remember is that fermentation will generate heat, which can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient. I was incredulous about that claim (really? 10 degrees just from adding some yeast?) until I actually measured the temperature of my beer IN the liquid, and lo and behold, at high krausen, my room was 61F and the beer was 71F during a particularly vigorous ESB fermentation.

For the cleanest flavors, try to always keep your beer at the lowest end of the temperature range advertised, and many yeasts may work below that. Low-mid 60s is a good rule of thumb (in the beer, not in the room- try a stick-on thermometer).

Thanks for the input daksin. I have one of the little stick on thermometers that came with my kit so I will put that on the side of my fermentation bucket.