Can I upgrade typical march pump to HF?

I have a typical March pump (809) I think (the kind they sale on Morebeer). Well I see they have a h315hf pump now that gives about 6 more feet of rise. I wonder if that is just a newly designed head that I might be able to buy and put on my current h315 (809) march pump?

Has anyone done this? If so, how much, and where would one just get the new 'HF' parts?

Thanks,
Ryan

I doubt it, but if you find out that it's possible, let us know!

I think you can. Read that on the thread about Chugger pumps. The guy from March said you could.

rshosted said:

I have a typical March pump (809) Has anyone done this? If so, how much, and where would one just get the new 'HF' parts?
Thanks,
Ryan

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Thru a March pump distributor as March does not sell to the public directly.
The 315 HF impeller pt# 0809-0107-0200 lists at March $24, I have one on order at $19 i'll install in a pump.
A delay so far as it was ordered 12-2-10 no phone call it's in yet.
Your correct converting a 12.1' head pump into a 18.6' head a impeller swap only a substantial pressure increase when dealing with tubing friction flow resistance and low pressures.

Merry Christmas all.

Are you pumping wort to the 3rd story? If not, why bother?

gungadin said:

I doubt it, but if you find out that it's possible, let us know!

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Philly, take a look at the above reply there is hope.

I've had issues at higher temps and need a little more power behind it. Especially for <30 bucks!

Also which store/web site/retailer did you order yours from?
Thanks

rshosted said:

I've had issues at higher temps and need a little more power behind it. Especially for <30 bucks!

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Power is not the issue, pump cavitation is applying a negative intake pressure on water nearing it's boiling point.
Under $30 you bet.

rshosted said:

Also which store/web site/retailer did you order yours from?
Thanks

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The location is app 6 miles away, i'm on the left coast saltwater surrounding the island.
The sticker is so far the excessively long wait maybe they're still building up to a large order to send in or they may not of paid March with past orders?
This was brought up by Walter at March pump, if so i'll contact Walter next week he'll look into this matter i'll post answers.
For the time being I wish not to forward this March distributors name plus not have someone else get delayed like myself.
You should be able to locate a distributor in your area, click onto the March site they have a section locating one near you.

IF you have a 3000rpm motor (The "HS" Pump model) on your pump then yes you can upgrade to the bigger impeller. If your model is not the "HS" and just the standard 809 with a motor rpm of 1750 then you will not gain anything much from the impeller swap.
-Walter

Sounds like I'll need to look at the pump for a specific part number. I hope that is printed/stamped on it...???

Thanks for that detail!

There will be a label on the motor stating the rpm's of it. It says FASCO on it and It will either say 1300/1500/1750 for the low speed versions. And the "HS" versions will state either 3050 or 3500rpm. The "HS" versions are the ones you can change the impeller to the bigger one.

The "HS" motors are one of the following part numbers:
0809-0090-1000
0809-0123-1000
0809-0139-1000
0809-0196-1000

-Walter

So one sticker says "hs" but the Pertinent things are rubbed off right where I need to see.

WalterAtMarchPump said:

And the "HS" versions will state either 3050 or 3500rpm. The "HS" versions are the ones you can change the impeller to the bigger one.-Walter

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Is the 3050 vs 3500 rpm the difference of 60 cps vs 50 cps powering the pump?

rshosted, sounds like your in luck with your HS pump by changing the impeller.
I bet Walter can run the serial number on you pump rpm, just a guess.

Looks like i forgot one number! (I have update in the list) That motor is 0809-0196-1000 and is a 3500rpm motor. Its a Sleeve bearing motor with mounting base and comes with a 72" cord with plug on the end. You can upgrade your pump with the HF impeller.

BrewBeemer, in the pumping industry "cps" usually stands for centipoise which is a viscosity rating of fluids. I think you were trying to say htz (hertz) when refering to 50 vs 60 when powering the pump. To answer your question, the two different rpms are not related to the htz of the motopr but only a rated listing the motor mfg puts on the labels. So depending on the type/model of motor and who makes it the rated rpm's can vary. On the average when you run a 60htz motor at 50htz cycle you loose about 20% output. Motor runs about 20% slower...current goes up @ 20%, and the motor runs 20% hotter due to the fan not moving the same amount of air for cooling.

-Walter

And the serial numbers only let us know when the pump was made. According to that number that pump was made in May of 2009. And according to the warranty card data base no one returned the warranty card against that serial number. So if you had any problems with the pump and didnt have a reciept for it i could only go by the serial number. So when you guys buy a pump, please return the warranty cards when you put the pump in service. That gives one year from date of purchase/installation. If no card and no resiept then we can only go by serial numbers. And if the pump has been sitting on a shelf for a number of years then it may be past the 1yr mark.

-Walter

Walter,
Part number 0809-0107-0200 being 2.156 Dia. Do I need to change the cover and housing as well to accommodate the bigger diameter impeller or can I just change the impeller and use the same cover and housing?

Read reply #4 above.
Yes it's a direct swap I picked my impeller up ($19) plus a spare SS end cover
($10.20), 2.158" (March) vs 1.682" (Chugger).

WalterAtMarchPump said:

And the serial numbers only let us know when the pump was made. According to that number that pump was made in May of 2009. And according to the warranty card data base no one returned the warranty card against that serial number. So if you had any problems with the pump and didnt have a reciept for it i could only go by the serial number. So when you guys buy a pump, please return the warranty cards when you put the pump in service. That gives one year from date of purchase/installation. If no card and no resiept then we can only go by serial numbers. And if the pump has been sitting on a shelf for a number of years then it may be past the 1yr mark.

-Walter

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Hey Walter, I got a pump from my wife for Christmas and there was no warranty card.

What's my best option here? It was a new pump purchase from Rebel Brewer.

T-townaler said:

Walter,
Part number 0809-0107-0200 being 2.156 Dia. Do I need to change the cover and housing as well to accommodate the bigger diameter impeller or can I just change the impeller and use the same cover and housing?

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You do not need to change anything to fit the impeller. Maybe the o-ring worse case if it hapen to streatch or break on you when you take it apart.

-Walter

Egbert said:

Hey Walter, I got a pump from my wife for Christmas and there was no warranty card.

What's my best option here? It was a new pump purchase from Rebel Brewer.

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Shoot me an email: wwojcik@ Marchpump.com
and give me the following:
Name
city and state you live in
model of pump
serial number
date purchased
and who purchased from

And i will add it to the data base.

-Walter

My larger impeller finally arrive and I Picked it up 26 buck and change. (my place wasn't giving deals on such a small order but they did get it in within two weeks.)

When I change I out I'll take a fee pics and post here.

WalterAtMarchPump said:

Shoot me an email: wwojcik@ Marchpump.com
and give me the following:
Name
city and state you live in
model of pump
serial number
date purchased
and who purchased from

And i will add it to the data base.

-Walter

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Excellent, thanks.

Done.

Gentlemen, thanks for the productive hijack. We will now return to our regularly scheduled mod.

Egbert, i've got a close friend just out of Wirtz Va. heading to Smith lake plus he likes bier and hot rods.
Once you get your brewery running it would be great to show him the process.

BrewBeemer said:

Egbert, i've got a close friend just out of Wirtz Va. heading to Smith lake plus he likes bier and hot rods.
Once you get your brewery running it would be great to show him the process.

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Hey BB, I noted your name and wondered if you were from the area.

I absolutely can show him the ropes, plus, I used to be a gearhead - musclecars baby!

There's a very nice active club here, we can get him setup.

You must of heard of Marvin Sutton on the right coast?
I'm left coast stuck on an islsnd.
Stuck in the 60's aka pre-plastic, 68 F250 "Bumpside" itching for a 520" FE next build MPI.
I'll shoot my bud an email tomorrow that I found a brewer in his area then get back to you by PM. .....~~=o&o>......

Popcorn!

Yeah, sounds good. We've got a stack of good brewers here.

My truck was a '59 Chevy Apache Fleetside Long Wheel Base
Also had a '56 Willys wagon.

No space in the garage for a project now, unless I give up brewing (my wife would shoot me), maybe in a few years.

Does more head pressure = better whirlpool?
I have the 809 HS (3500rpm) and would like an upgrade for whirl pooling.
brewbeemer, did your cheap vendor ever ship the parts?

bendavanza said:

Does more head pressure = better whirlpool?
I have the 809 HS (3500rpm) and would like an upgrade for whirl pooling.
brewbeemer, did your cheap vendor ever ship the parts?

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Take a garden hose then blast dirt with leaves off cement with the valve half opened then fully opened, which works better?
The company I used was only 6 miles (app) away hence no shipping.
The shocker is another member mentioned his local March distributor would not budge his impeller cost him $29 I recall on this thread.
I would call locally then expand outwards with short shipping low fees.

BrewBeemer said:

Egbert, i've got a close friend just out of Wirtz Va. heading to Smith lake plus he likes bier and hot rods.
Once you get your brewery running it would be great to show him the process.

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Carl you have that rig of yours done yet ? I wanna bring a 55 gallon drum out there in back of the truck, and filler up for the trip back down south ! BTW, Buddy, Thanks for the Big Jug of Canadian Mist for Christmas ! It went down smooth as Silk too...and no Hangover !

Not yet Russ I need my back rebuilt first then win the lottery.
BTW welcome aboard.
You need to touch base with Egbert over in your neck of the woods.
Two fer three where's LCG?
Prost bro now where's my damn bier?

Well i think I need to find a book on this and sit down for a month and absorb it all.. Dealing with one of these space age pressure cookers isnt as easy and building a 700hp 428 Cobra motor ! But I think they cost about the same ?

Glenn needs to learn how to make that stuff we have out here in Franklin County ! As we know he likes his High Spirits ! about the same effect as if I went down to the sonoco station an bought a gallon of 116 race fuel..

Carl if I had your money...I'd burn Glenns !!

RapidRuss said:

Well i think I need to find a book on this and sit down for a month and absorb it all.. Dealing with one of these space age pressure cookers isnt as easy and building a 700hp 428 Cobra motor ! But I think they cost about the same ?

Glenn needs to learn how to make that stuff we have out here in Franklin County ! As we know he likes his High Spirits ! about the same effect as if I went down to the sonoco station an bought a gallon of 116 race fuel..

Carl if I had your money...I'd burn Glenns !!

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Hey, Russ, PM me.
We commonly do open brew sessions with people stopping in and, I currently don't have a brew partner. It's a lot easier than rebuilding a carb.

rshosted said:

I've had issues at higher temps and need a little more power behind it. Especially for <30 bucks!

Click to expand...

With the standard impeller in the Chugger pump I have impeller tip to pump body clearance of .365", with the HF impeller .127".
I find the larger impeller the pump has a better chance to purge out the small air pockets with catching and running vs a lost prime.
With reduced primes loss when you need the pump, quicker primes catching itself with an increased pressure from 5.22 to 8.035 psi what's not to like for a $19 investment? Compared vs the initial cost of the pump this is the best bang for the buck improvement.

Egbert said:

Hey, Russ, PM me.
We commonly do open brew sessions with people stopping in and, I currently don't have a brew partner. It's a lot easier than rebuilding a carb.

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EgBert,

I tried to PM you this morning about 5am..wrote a nice little novel..come to find out your big PM file was full...So my letter went nowhere..and nowhere to store it either..

On topic now...Carl, I think you hit the nail right on the head..Plus the pump wouldnt have to work as hard to do a better job !

Russ

I haven't had a chance to test this, but I can't help but believe this is going to substantially reduce the problems I've encountered with my 809 pump.

What problems? I've read all about how to 'avoid' said problems so please do not post how to 'fix' my problems (I've been working on them for years with no luck )

I've had a problem sparging at extremely high temps (200*F+) when trying to raise the temperature of my grainbed. The problem (as I see it) is the water begins to boil and release steam, and loses flow from cavitation.

I also have tried to pump from a lower pot to a higher pot (5' up) and find when the 15 gallon pot is close to full it just doesn't have enough 'umph' to get it full when filling via the ball valve at the bottom (yes, I realize it would be working against more pressure from the water in the pot). I'm a little sensitive about pump advice because I've received some 'colorful' advice from others already.

So that being said, I am VERY hopeful that this will help, ALOT. Just from looking at it before, I thought to myself, 'self, why is that impeller so small?' And now, I have the answer... sort of.

Okay enough of my ranting. Here's the pics. This is the stock vs. HF impeller in a regular 809 pump (High speed of course, photographed in the previous posts).

Big difference:


Back side:


Stock impeller in 809:


High flow impeller:

I am very interested if this will help or fix your problems. Keep us posted

Subscribed! I just got my 809 HS and was putting it thru a dry run to work out the kinks before brew day. Had some challenges getting the pumped primed, orientation of the outlet (pointed up) seemed to help with the flow and getting the air out. I recently finished my two stage chilling system (40 plate wort chiller and a 3/8'' jockey box). I was hopeful, but not surprised, that the throughput was suboptimal. I could benefit from some more power...

Would love to hear how this upgrade worked out for you...

Why do you guys need 2 stage chiilers?
Is your tap water that warm that you can't chill your water to pitch temp with just a counterflow or plate chiller?

Instead of a two stage, if doesn't cool that much, couldn't you just set the plate chiller in salted ice water?