Brutus Ten ????

RonInPHX said:

Little giant. 2-MD-HC

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I have a Little Giant Pump on the Mash side of my current rig, It runs so much quieter than the March pump on the wort side. Seems to prime faster too.

I have my frame built. I am obsessing over how to make the mash return manifold work and how the whole process will work. I dont want to put the fitting in the lid I would rather put it trought the side of the kettle up high. I still have a few questions:

I have seen the copper return manifolds that sit on the grainbed and return the wort slowly. Is this how the "fly" sparge is conducted also?

I seen Lonnies curved tube return. Does this return upset the grainbed when sparging? If it doesn't how is that possible?

I want a simple solution that will not cause HSA issues and can be used for batch or fly sparging. Any help would be appreciated.

My understanding the HSA isnt an issue in the process of mashing as you still are going to boil the hell out of the wort after this step.

The copper returns that Lonnie use in Brutus can be throttles back to a slow trickle if you put a valve on the output of your pumps.

Additionally, I put the copper returns to recirculate the mash and put a swivel union on the end so that i can add a copper arm that i drilled small holes in that will spin when water pressure goes through it. I can perform a batch or a fly sparge this way by simply adding the spinning arm if I want it. I'll post some pics tonight of my assembly.

MNBugeater

I think Im going to sparge with a fly wheel, and do a whirlpool recirculation. It will be just a matter of swapping a hose to switch between the two

Gumby1974 said:

I have my frame built. I am obsessing over how to make the mash return manifold work and how the whole process will work. I dont want to put the fitting in the lid I would rather put it trought the side of the kettle up high. I still have a few questions:

I have seen the copper return manifolds that sit on the grainbed and return the wort slowly. Is this how the "fly" sparge is conducted also?

I seen Lonnies curved tube return. Does this return upset the grainbed when sparging? If it doesn't how is that possible?

I want a simple solution that will not cause HSA issues and can be used for batch or fly sparging. Any help would be appreciated.

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I've tried this several different ways - sparge ring sitting on grain bed, curved copper return tube, sprinkler, vinyl hose, etc. They all work fine for batch sparging and recirculating the mash. Some disturb the grain bed less than others (sprinkler and sparge ring) and some will argue they are better suited for fly sparging. In truth, with fly sparging you should have a little water above the grain bed anyway so it should really make any difference.

Right now in my setup I've got the curved tube connected to a fitting on the top of the keg wall. The outside fitting is a QD for my pump so I can move the hoses around easily. The return tube inside does disturb the top of the grain bed a little, but it doesn't seem to be a problem and the runnings from the bottom of the MLT are extremely clear. I don't think you'll be disappointed going this route. It's a very clean design, and there's no messing around with hoses and things down in the MLT. I'd show some pics, but I don't have them loaded up on my website yet.

Lil' Sparky said:

I've tried this several different ways - sparge ring sitting on grain bed, curved copper return tube, sprinkler, vinyl hose, etc. They all work fine for batch sparging and recirculating the mash. Some disturb the grain bed less than others (sprinkler and sparge ring) and some will argue they are better suited for fly sparging. In truth, with fly sparging you should have a little water above the grain bed anyway so it should really make any difference.

Right now in my setup I've got the curved tube connected to a fitting on the top of the keg wall. The outside fitting is a QD for my pump so I can move the hoses around easily. The return tube inside does disturb the top of the grain bed a little, but it doesn't seem to be a problem and the runnings from the bottom of the MLT are extremely clear. I don't think you'll be disappointed going this route. It's a very clean design, and there's no messing around with hoses and things down in the MLT. I'd show some pics, but I don't have them loaded up on my website yet.

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Ok great! I think I will start with this method because it is very clean and easy. If someday I decide to fly sparge well that will be easy also. I guess I thought that the return was faster than you are all making it sound. If the return is as slow as you all make it seem there shouldn't be a problem. I would have responded earlier but the forum does not notify me of replies like others, maybe there is a setting I missed. EDIT** I found the notify thingy DOH. Thanks all.

MNBugeater said:

My understanding the HSA isnt an issue in the process of mashing as you still are going to boil the hell out of the wort after this step.

The copper returns that Lonnie use in Brutus can be throttles back to a slow trickle if you put a valve on the output of your pumps.

Additionally, I put the copper returns to recirculate the mash and put a swivel union on the end so that i can add a copper arm that i drilled small holes in that will spin when water pressure goes through it. I can perform a batch or a fly sparge this way by simply adding the spinning arm if I want it. I'll post some pics tonight of my assembly.

MNBugeater

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I would like to see this setup, it sounds interesting. I will start with the bulkhead going through the top side of the kettle and I think I can adapt multiple methods from that.

Here you go...
I can attach this to a return in the lid if I want to fly sparge via a male compression fitting at the end of the return.

This arm just has a male compression fitting and then a spinning union to it can spin with some pressure. I'll try to post a You Tube video in the neat future.



I drilled 6 holes in each arm to give it some directional pressure so it spins.

I cant for the life of me see how lonnie uses 35 feet of the silicone tubing. From my calculations 24 feet should be more than enough. Those of you who have this finished let me know your findings on how much you needed.

MNBugeater said:

Here you go...
I can attach this to a return in the lid if I want to fly sparge via a male compression fitting at the end of the return.

This arm just has a male compression fitting and then a spinning union to it can spin with some pressure. I'll try to post a You Tube video in the neat future.

I drilled 6 holes in each arm to give it some directional pressure so it spins.

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you sir are a genius! im going to use your idea if you dont mind

Chimone said:

you sir are a genius! im going to use your idea if you dont mind

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Ha..well thank you. Use away, it may be the last good idea i have...

Gumby1974 said:

I cant for the life of me see how lonnie uses 35 feet of the silicone tubing. From my calculations 24 feet should be more than enough. Those of you who have this finished let me know your findings on how much you needed.

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I'm with you on this one. If you create at MOST six sections of tubing and do a dual recirculation through a chiller (plate or counter flow) at 4 feet each you get 24. But even thats alot and only if you do the cooling water and hot wort recirc.

I found 6 to be just a tad long too, but 4 pieces at even 5 feet is half the cost of tubing.

Lonnie, are we missing something? How did you use 40 feet of tubing?

Ahhh my friends!

I AWAYS keep spare tubing. Brutus uses 6 pieces of silicone tubing. 5ea at 4' and one at 6'. The rest sits on the hose reel hanging on my wall!

You can never have too much of a good thing!

Thanks for the reply Lonnie. I got my frame welded up and I have the pumps and I am waiting on a control panel/box so I can get the mounts for both welded on. Then it gets paint and the work begins. I will be posting pictures along the way.

wiring time

what you guys using for a 120V bus bar?

Chimone said:

wiring time

what you guys using for a 120V bus bar?

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3 of these and 3 of these

HarvInSTL said:

3 of these and 3 of these

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sweet tyvm

HarvInSTL said:

3 of these and 3 of these

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+1 ... identical parts on mine. Radio Shack for me too. I just purchased a ground bar for the ground. But i have those Radio Shack parts for the hot and neutral bus.

RonInPHX, great job on your build. How do you like the tippy dump option you installed? Do you think it is worth the extra work to fabricate on both the stand and the keggle? Can you post the lengths of the tippy arms, Thanks. I was ready to go and then started drooling over your mods.
Bill

Thanks I am very happy with the rig.

The tippy dump arm pivot is 16" long from the front of the frame to the pivot.

If I build another one I will have it dump back wards so I wouldn't have to remove the valve to dumb.

The mods were very easy to do I would recommend the dump.

RonInPHX said:

Thanks I am very happy with the rig.

The tippy dump arm pivot is 16" long from the front of the frame to the pivot.

If I build another one I will have it dump back wards so I wouldn't have to remove the valve to dumb.

The mods were very easy to do I would recommend the dump.

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Yeah, I was really Pissed when I saw your photos. One more freakin' mod to think about. I want it....Gotta have it.

KD

Anybody using the 100k jet burners: What's the distance from the top of the jets to the bottom of your kettle?

thanks
KD

korndog said:

Anybody using the 100k jet burners: What's the distance from the top of the jets to the bottom of your kettle?

thanks
KD

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~2.5"
....

Chimone said:

~2.5"
....

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thats about where i have it. i guess ill give it a shot there and see.

I think I have like 5-6" of space but that's under a keg. Something about the side skirt that must be creating a pocket of co2 but if I get too close, the flame bogs/goes orange.

I seen somewhere someone with indicator lights on the panel. I would like to put that in my system but cannot find 120v indicator lights that are reasonable price. I would like LED's. Any suggestions?

Gumby1974 said:

I seen somewhere someone with indicator lights on the panel. I would like to put that in my system but cannot find 120v indicator lights that are reasonable price. I would like LED's. Any suggestions?

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Here you go. Light away. I'm right behind you. Can't have enough lights!

Any tips on polishing mill finished stainless appreciated. I've been going over it with flap wheel on angle grinder and ready for the next step.

btw. after many frustrating session of drilling, I FINALLY got the hang of it. Sloooooow.

Get the 3M 4" hook& loop adapter for your 4" grinder and a supply of blue and gray color pads. Scotch brite pads range from maroon (coarse) green (medium) blue (fine) and gray (very fine), coarse and medium pads will leave scratches in the stainless if you are going for a mirror finish. Only warning when polishing is heat buildup in polishing area can melt pads as stainless is a poor heat conductor, usually noticed by streaks of material on surface after pass with pad, spray bottle with water is a big help in keep work temperatures under control.

Stainless $417 delivered.
Not sure if this is a good price where you guys live but It's about $200 less than anything I can find local in the Maryland area. I ordered from www.onlinemetalsupply.com and paid $417 delivered. I did have to modify the cut lists because they can only ship up to 96" lengths. I found that 4 at 96" and 1 at 72" will fill Lonnies cut list with enough left over for the pump and control arm.
Bill

Gumby1974 said:

I seen somewhere someone with indicator lights on the panel. I would like to put that in my system but cannot find 120v indicator lights that are reasonable price. I would like LED's. Any suggestions?

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I got mine at Radio Shack.

Here is the one I used as the master indicator.
This was for my 4 smaller switches. They have drawers full of them if you walk into any store.

Here are a few others.

Option 1
Option 2

I was thinking of also running some inline fuses just before the switch. Thoughts? One for each controller and solenoid, maybe pumps. Suggestions for fuse amperage rating?

What is the estimated cost to build the Brutus 10? $1,000... $2,000? I want the plans, I want to contemplate building one over the next year.

Chimone said:

I was thinking of also running some inline fuses just before the switch. Thoughts? One for each controller and solenoid, maybe pumps. Suggestions for fuse amperage rating?

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I just put one from the hot bus to the master switch. At least you would save your pumps, controller, and solenoids in the event of a short. And absolutely use a GFCI outlet.

The Pol said:

What is the estimated cost to build the Brutus 10? $1,000... $2,000? I want the plans, I want to contemplate building one over the next year.

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From scratch with no existing equipment, you are probably going to be in the 1500-2000 range. But there are so many variables that effect price. Stainless Steel vs. Mild, Kettle Size and type, gas vs. electric pilots, safety valves, etc., truly just countless options.

Im sure you will hear prices from $500 to $3000. I personally am in the $2500 range, but $700 of that was for 2 new Blichmann kettles. I didn't need them. I had kettles that would work fine. I wouldn't really count it as brew stand costs. I also used polysulphone quick connects everywhere and that added $250-$300 to the overall costs. I'm happy to share my parts list if you want it. If you want a really detailed parts list with numbers and prices, I have it in Pages for Mac. I can export it to Excel for you, but it looses something in the translation. Part numbers and prices are still there, but youll need to do some deciphering to know what parts go where. Inevitably there are the countless runs to Home Depot, Lowes, etc for this little piece or that piece etc. I tried to be really good and keeping those receipts to get a good idea of where I ended. Im in the $1800 neighborhood for the stand itself. Kettles excluded.

Lonnie's plans are really quite accurate and complete. You can do it all for just over $2000 with no equipment. The BYO November 2007 issue for $5 has everything.

Yep Im right around 2500. But look at it this way, I wanted a semi automated rig and B3 and SABCO sculptures are 5k+.


If you want, I can do one for you for 4k

kladue said:

Get the 3M 4" hook& loop adapter for your 4" grinder and a supply of blue and gray color pads. Scotch brite pads range from maroon (coarse) green (medium) blue (fine) and gray (very fine), coarse and medium pads will leave scratches in the stainless if you are going for a mirror finish. Only warning when polishing is heat buildup in polishing area can melt pads as stainless is a poor heat conductor, usually noticed by streaks of material on surface after pass with pad, spray bottle with water is a big help in keep work temperatures under control.

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Thanks Kladue. I'll order some of those. I already have a coarse scratch pattern on it, so I will probably have to work through all the grits.

Im thinking about installing some sort of QD for the probe leads now. Maybe some plug in the front that is directly wired in the back to the LOVE controller.

This way I can disconnect the whole ass'y for cleaning, storage or whatever. Think that little bit of extra impedance from the connection and the extra wire will give false readings? Are the probes calibrated to a certain length? Or you guys think it should be ok?

Chimone said:

This way I can disconnect the whole ass'y for cleaning, storage or whatever. Think that little bit of extra impedance from the connection and the extra wire will give false readings? Are the probes calibrated to a certain length? Or you guys think it should be ok?

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Impedance shouldnt be an issue. I didn't add a quick connect, but I did lengthen the leads by adding 3' more and put heatshrink over the connection. Then I just wrapped 80% of the lead with spiral wrap. I'd be a little concerned having a quick connect that wasn't water tight and protected. To me it would just be one more joint that liquid could sneak into.

Just thought I would give a heads-up to those considering Blichmann 15 gallon kettles for the the Brutus frame. The bottoms of these kettles are chamfered, and smaller than the diameter at the top. They DO fit on the frame, but there is not much room for error on placement of the kettles. I am considering welding some "keepers" on the top frame for safety reasons.

Best
KD