Mill concept

camiller said:

In a word, yes.

Just checked fedex, international economy rate for a 10 pound package: $217.26.

https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/standalone

Yes, there are obviously cheaper rates if you are a frequent shipper and have an account with fedEx but overseas shipping is expensive.

Edit: that $217 is to Christchurch central from a fedex location in Omaha

Edit2: USPS Priority Mail International - Large Box (maximum 20 pounds) $58.50. But don't forget import duties etc.

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Whoa! I had no idea. I guess I assumed you would have access to one of those shippers that combines everyone's parcels (and presumably packs a container) and sends it that way. I sold a set of aluminum wheels for my son's VW to a guy in Iceland, and I just shipped them to this outfit in Norfolk, Virginia, and they got them to Iceland. I sent them with a shipping label they sent, I paid them for everything, including the domestic shipping from Central Illinois -> Norfolk, VA. I know this was 5-6 years ago, but even so this was a pretty heavy set of wheels and the shipping could NOT have been all that high.

rico567 said:

Whoa! I had no idea. I guess I assumed you would have access to one of those shippers that combines everyone's parcels (and presumably packs a container) and sends it that way. I sold a set of aluminum wheels for my son's VW to a guy in Iceland, and I just shipped them to this outfit in Norfolk, Virginia, and they got them to Iceland. I sent them with a shipping label they sent, I paid them for everything, including the domestic shipping from Central Illinois -> Norfolk, VA. I know this was 5-6 years ago, but even so this was a pretty heavy set of wheels and the shipping could NOT have been all that high.

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Interesting, I've never used a consolidator like that (don't do much international shipping myself), but it makes sense that they exist. Still, that is effectively what FedEx is doing, packing up a bunch of small parcels into a shipping container, albeit for air cargo. If you are not in a hurry shipping by cargo ship would be cheaper still, I would guess that you package to Iceland was by sea going vessel, especially for something that bulky.

camiller said:

Interesting, I've never used a consolidator like that (don't do much international shipping myself), but it makes sense that they exist. Still, that is effectively what FedEx is doing, packing up a bunch of small parcels into a shipping container, albeit for air cargo. If you are not in a hurry shipping by cargo ship would be cheaper still, I would guess that you package to Iceland was by sea going vessel, especially for something that bulky.

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Oh, yes, I'm sure that's it. I hadn't considered the air /sea transportation differences.

So a bit of an update:
I have got the mill together in an MDF frame (just need to screw it down to the piece that will sit ontop of the bucket I will collect the crush in). I have run a few handfuls of malt through it, see my post on crushing here . A few issue have come up, mainly I am having a little trouble getting the dead roller starting, the grain is not getting drawn between the rollers and sitting ontop and spreading out (and falling out the sides since I haven't got them covered yet ). If I give the dead roller a spin and it starts going and will keep going until the grain runs out.
So my plan forward is to condition my malt to hopefully help draw it into the mill more when starting the crush and opened the gap up a bit from 39 mil to about 42-45 mil. I will hopefully post some more next week(ish)

That was a long five months! You've certainly got a lot more patience than I do.

Catt22 said:

That was a long five months! You've certainly got a lot more patience than I do.

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Or a lot less time
that was 5 months from first posting the concept, only been a few months since I got the bits

mattd2 said:

Or a lot less time
that was 5 months from first posting the concept, only been a few months since I got the bits

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What are bits? The mill looked like it was about ready to go way back in mid May. Where there some unexpected problems or what?

Catt22 said:

What are bits? The mill looked like it was about ready to go way back in mid May. Where there some unexpected problems or what?

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May was only 3 months ago (if you stretch it ), I did get them to skim off a bit from the shafts to free them up a little, then the wife was 8/9 months pregnant with what turned out to be a 10 lb 10 oz boy so I was doing a bit more of the housework as she was very tired (which in turn made me tired and wanting to sleep instead of DIY).
Now I got a 2 week old, so again not getting enough sleep!
Going to try and brew this Saturday so I will need to get my wort chiller and mill going by then (mill is not critical as I only need it to get my grist up 12 oz to hit 10 lb 10 oz, if I get stuck I will take out one of the rollers and try to do it by hand!)
Wish me luck on getting it done by then though

Expect the conditioned malt to require more force to turn the mill. Widening the gap will reduce the required torque. It's not a small difference in force required at the same gap setting.

Grrrrrrr... Still can't get the idle roller to spin by just the grain travelling through the mill! So a few wraps later of electrical tap on one end of the idle roller and it powered through the small amount of grain I was testing it with. And the tape still looks good!
I am getting there...

mattd2 said:

Grrrrrrr... Still can't get the idle roller to spin by just the grain travelling through the mill! So a few wraps later of electrical tap on one end of the idle roller and it powered through the small amount of grain I was testing it with. And the tape still looks good!
I am getting there...

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Put an oring on one of the rollers to get the free roller turning. Nice build.

Beach

beach said:

Put an oring on one of the rollers to get the free roller turning. Nice build.

Beach

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That might be the more permenate fix! Cheers

camiller said:

Why do so many people not understand that for those guys living on the other side of the planet, shipping a heavy steel item that far costs more than the item itself, then add import duties, etc?

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These folks simply need to stay out of DYI threads. If the mods want to delete off topic posts these kind of post would be a good place to start.

mattd2 said:

Grrrrrrr... Still can't get the idle roller to spin by just the grain travelling through the mill! So a few wraps later of electrical tap on one end of the idle roller and it powered through the small amount of grain I was testing it with. And the tape still looks good!
I am getting there...

beach said:

Put an oring on one of the rollers to get the free roller turning. Nice build.

Beach

mattd2 said:

That might be the more permenate fix! Cheers

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May be less permanent than you think. The Barley Crusher ships that way and the o-ring probably didn't last more than 50 Lbs of grain.

camiller said:

May be less permanent than you think. The Barley Crusher ships that way and the o-ring probably didn't last more than 50 Lbs of grain.

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hmmm... might leave the electrcial tape in then. Hopefully with use the bushes/shafts free up and it starts turning on its own

Grrrr (again). Replaced the electrical tape with new stuff because I took off the old stuff to what I though would be just over the mill gap, well I was wrong and it wasn't even gripping!
Had to buy another roll as the first stuff ran out and I might of got a cheaper quality tape as this one doesn't seem to want to stay put. Ended up shreading off about a minute in.
Next step is to tape both rollers so that it is a bit more gentle on the tape and see what happens (but it might of also been the roasted grains in the crushed ripping the tape up )
And I also got some photos I got to add. Maybe I'll get a chance tonight after work...

Quick photo of the mill as it is now

looking good!

I am intrested in what you come up with to keep the idlers going... I am in the process of building a 3 roller mill and havent come up with a solution to that yet.

Time for an update...
I oiled the rollers last night with a tiny bit of cooking oil (it was either that or motor oil!) and they spin much much better. A slight roll will spin a good 5-6 revolutions. Use a bit more of the electrical tape till it was just gripping and started it up, threw a good handfull of grains in and it just ripped through them no sweat.
Next brew (hopefully will be doing a mini BIAB 2.5 gallon batch) I'll get all unmilled malt and crush it myself!
stay tune for updates... eventually...

Uuuuuuuuuuuupdate time!

:d

Hahahahahaha.... I was actually just thinking about my mill problems. Really 2" is still not big enough for smooth-ish rollers to grip the grain and get the second roller spinning by itself. I have the mill apart and was going to drop the rollers of at the shop to see if the can either put more knurl on it (they only have a bump knurler so maybe not ) or rought them up a bit (sandblast maybe to get a P120 - 150 sandpaper like finish).
It's been good for small amounts of grain, ~1kg-ish, but trying to go through enough for a 5-10 gallon batch the electrical tap would be ripped apart 2, 3, 4, ??? times.
Other updates are;
I used so Al. can to provide end plates to stop the grain falling out (worked good but I will make some more using a ruler
Got my dad's old "drill press" (removable drill with stand) which runs at 600 rpm, much better than trying to control the trigger on a 2750 rpm electric drill!

Update!
Got the rollers back from the shop yesterday and put it together tonight. It is working awsome. Just ripped through 2# of grain (the hopper is a plastic 3 litre juice and holds just over 1 kg of grain).
Can't wait to do the inaugural milled malt brew! Got about 5# sitting ready to go, might mill a bit of crystal and do a mini BIAB tomorrow...

That's great news! Congratulations!

I'm curious if anyone has looked into using 6" or 8" bench grinder wheels as DIY mill rollers? With that big diameter, you should not have the problem of the idle wheels not turning. You could probably grind against a fixed plate?

It would seem to take more torque, but with the~ 4x higher speed at the outside of the wheel, you should only need ~ 1/4 the width on the rollers, so maybe the forces are bout the same?

Anyhow, I figure most DIY'ers have more access to grinding wheels and a frame and shafts, than to the machining needed for long 2" rollers.

Thoughts?

-kenc

For all that diameter, most bench grinder wheels are only an inch or so thick. I think it would be a major challenge to come up with a way to keep grain from finding their way to the sides and missing the whole "crushing" thing...

Cheers!

kenc_zymurgy said:

I'm curious if anyone has looked into using 6" or 8" bench grinder wheels as DIY mill rollers? With that big diameter, you should not have the problem of the idle wheels not turning. You could probably grind against a fixed plate?

It would seem to take more torque, but with the~ 4x higher speed at the outside of the wheel, you should only need ~ 1/4 the width on the rollers, so maybe the forces are bout the same?

Anyhow, I figure most DIY'ers have more access to grinding wheels and a frame and shafts, than to the machining needed for long 2" rollers.

Thoughts?

-kenc

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After two-three years of use in a homebrew shop I had to replace the stainless steel rollers in a barley crusher because the knurling had worn down. I imagine that bench grinder wheels, which are most definitely not steel, would wear down rather quickly. IIRC Somebody on here did a mill with cast concrete rollers.

Edit: found it - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-diy-low-budget-concrete-roller-grain-mill-119521/

Used the mill again on Monday night (really got to start brewing more!) and it was giving me some problems. I think it all comes down to running it to fast with the 600rpm drill. It was not dragging the grain into the mill at startup. I got round the issue by "manually" starting the crush by turning the drill by hand (i.e. slowly) until I felt the grain being drawn into the rollers and then starting the drill up. Doing this it went through ~10# of malt no issue (I also conditioned the malt first). Just had to take a few stop-starts to refill the tiny hopper!
I think I am happy enough with it to build a propper hopper/base for it and maybe try and find a motor to run it at the correct speed (and hopefully this will cure my startup issues).

mattd2 said:

...I got round the issue by "manually" starting the crush by turning the drill by hand (i.e. slowly) until I felt the grain being drawn into the rollers and then starting the drill up...

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Another batch done last night. Mill went good, closed it up to about 0.041". Had to "manually" start it again but had the "clever" idea of stopping before the hopper ran empty to refill it, this way it started up fine on the next run with no issue. I think April will have to be the month the new hopper gets built.
Cheers all