Brewing with Wild Yeast? But How...

I've seen the subject of brewing with wild yeast pop up now and then, though far more rarely compared to more conventional methods of brewing. I have to say, I'm interested in how it works in detail, because it has the potential to create very unique beers (although I am aware of the potential for a disastrous brew).

Now I've also read that pretty much all of the wild yeasts here in the US are not good for anything but ruining beer, whereas the ones in French/Belgium are mostly pretty good. Is there truth to that? There are some books I could get that will answer some of this, but I'd like to go straight to you guys, since some of you may have had real experience here. Definitely more valuable than a book if you ask me.

Thanks guys.

oo, I'm interested in this as well.

Also:

Can one teach yeast to speak french or german?

I've been wondering this too... and when breweries like DFH, Rogue, New Belgium, etc say that they're using proprietary yeast, does that mean they've isolated some wild yeast strain in their area?

I'll take a stab at this although I'm a newb and have been lurking around lately...so FWIW:

Those French/Belgian beers are a distinct style because they are fermented with the wild yeast and bacteria from that particular region. There is nothing to say that leaving a batch of beer to ferment by wild yeast/bacteria here in the US will lead to a bad batch of beer. Who knows...your region of the US might have that certain environment that allows a certain yeast and/or bacteria to thrive that would produce a great beer...you just don't know it yet. What the French/Belgians beers have on their side is that they have been brewing with those wild yeast/bacteria for centuries...often is the same brewery...they know how there beer is going to ferment. At best, brewing with wild yeast would be highly variable....you certainly aren't going to get what we would call "good beer" even a small percentage of the time.

This is the reason man has gone to using cultivated strains of yeast...a consistent, high quality beer every time. Cultivated stains of yeast were wild yeast at one point; over time we have "bred" them to ferment in a certain way and they are now capable of producing a certain style of beer because of this breeding over the years.

@shlap: Yes, those breweries use proprietary yeast, but they aren't wild yeast. Somewhere in their past, they were given, bought or stole the strains of yeast that they use and are proprietary since they do not allow other to use them. Furthermore, over time they have cultivated their yeast in-house, leading to further changes in their yeast stains that give them their house-flavors.

Brewing with wild yeasts is quite simple, just leave the top off of your fermenter and see what happens. Or you could find an apple tree, pick a few fruit and add them to your wort, since apples frequently have yeast colonies on them. As stated, breweries that use 'wild' yeasts have enough yeast from previous batches to start new ones just from what floats off of the walls.

Most proprietary yeasts are mutations from known yeasts that have been isolated and cultivated by a brewery. Who knows, maybe you'll find the next Pacman.

Interesting, David. I guess my question was less about the nuts and bolts about how it works (though that's good to know too) so much as how you do it, exactly. A question that comes to mind is, if I leave the top of my fermentor off to expose the beer to wild yeasts, how do I prevent potentially harmful bacteriums from getting in as well? Or is that just a risk you run? Also, does an individual leave the beer outside to get the yeast in it? I can imagine that indoor yeast wouldn't be as beneficial to use. I was given a bag of apples from my grandmother - they were harvested from a tree in her yard. Would that be a good potential yeast colony to put into unfermented beer? Finally, I promise, how long does the unfermented beer need to be exposed to potential yeast agents until you cover it up, airlock it and hope for the best?

Sorry for all the questions but they're just popping into my head as I type.

P.S. David, I read your sig about the Hopwine...281.8 IBU? That's pretty high...I computer calculated my Bitter Belgian and it says I have about 474.6 IBU. I guess that makes sense since I put in 4 oz. of Galena 13 alpha with another sack of it in for dry hopping too. I was wondering at the validity of that number I got, but maybe there's some truth to it, judging from your number as well.

EinGutesBier said:

P.S. David, I read your sig about the Hopwine...281.8 IBU? That's pretty high...I computer calculated my Bitter Belgian and it says I have about 474.6 IBU. I guess that makes sense since I put in 4 oz. of Galena 13 alpha with another sack of it in for dry hopping too. I was wondering at the validity of that number I got, but maybe there's some truth to it, judging from your number as well.

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Wait, you're not calculating your dryhops to affect the IBU's, are you? Because they don't. Alpha Acids need the boil to release bitterness. Dryhopping will have no affect on your IBU's.

Evan! said:

Wait, you're not calculating your dryhops to affect the IBU's, are you? Because they don't. Alpha Acids need the boil to release bitterness. Dryhopping will have no affect on your IBU's.

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No, no, that would be cheating :cross: I was just tossing that out there for consideration. I just calculated the 4 oz. of 13 Alpha Galena I used and plunked in the numbers for the yield, etc. and that's what it gave me. I didn't count the additional 2.5 - 3.0 oz. of Mt. Hood hops either. Unless I made an error unknown to myself, this is one bitter brew.

EinGutesBier said:

A question that comes to mind is, if I leave the top of my fermentor off to expose the beer to wild yeasts, how do I prevent potentially harmful bacteriums from getting in as well? Or is that just a risk you run? Also, does an individual leave the beer outside to get the yeast in it? I can imagine that indoor yeast wouldn't be as beneficial to use. I was given a bag of apples from my grandmother - they were harvested from a tree in her yard. Would that be a good potential yeast colony to put into unfermented beer? Finally, I promise, how long does the unfermented beer need to be exposed to potential yeast agents until you cover it up, airlock it and hope for the best?
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As I understand it the time for doing open/ambient/spontaneous fermentation is almost upon us -once it cools down the acetobacter become less of a problem/ liability. You don't want them unless you want vinegar. Also, you can do open fermentation inside, I read about a guy who makes great beers on babblebelt.com just placing the open fermenter in his basement and letting it go. Of course this is all hearsay, but to me they seem like fairly reliable sources. I like the idea of using the yeast on apples to get the ferment going. I have not done an ambient ferment yet, but once the weather cools I plan on doing one(low grav. saison). The other option is to culture from a bottle someone has used wild yeast in, although they wouldn't be from your area necessarily. I have visited Jolly Pumpkin outside detroit, they barrel age all their beers and wild yeast has 'infected' all their barrels. I cultured some yeast from their bottles, so I have wild yeast from the Michigan area. Hope this helps, when I do mine I'll post how it goes.

Belgian brewers use techniques to counter acetobacter activity in the production of lambic. Some brewers introduce a little saccharomyces cerevisiae to kick start fermentation and allow the yeast to build up a defense against the acetobacter. Another technique is a faster cooling period, this does not allow the acetobacter to come into contact with the warm wort and start growing rampant. I would say it's safer to pitch a blend of lambic organisms in the beer, plus it offers greater control and a more predictable outcome, a palatable product. Spontaneous fermentation may not come out the way you had hoped and is risky. Flanders ales are not under a big treat of an acetobacter attack.
May I suggest Wild Brews by Jeff Sparrow, it is a great book and a must have for any serious lambic/flanders ale brewer.

perhaps i'll offer my meager experience...in Newfoundland it's quite common to use wild yeasts in wine production...mash up a whole lot of freshly picked blueberries and top up with water and a few months later you get some of the best blueberry wine you'll ever find anywhere...so simple it would make most people on this site cringe...but really, wild yeast from fresh organic fruit is an excellent source of yeast