Yeah, that would work. the 20A breaker in between is not "really" needed.
But I would use the appropriate NEMA 6-20 receptacle to plug your IC3500 plate in directly instead of the second 10-30, which would need again an adapter.
Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?
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Yeah, that would work. the 20A breaker in between is not "really" needed.
But I would use the appropriate NEMA 6-20 receptacle to plug your IC3500 plate in directly instead of the second 10-30, which would need again an adapter.
steveoatley
someone has to fail, so the rest of you look good
Did someone start a thread for What pots work best with Induction ?
Sorry to ask, I seem to remember seeing the thread, but I can't seem to find it now
I am looking at this 3500 watt induction
with either a NB Mega Pot 1.2 or a Blichmann Boiler maker
and was wonder who was having good luck or bad
thanks
Sorry to ask, I seem to remember seeing the thread, but I can't seem to find it now
I am looking at this 3500 watt induction
with either a NB Mega Pot 1.2 or a Blichmann Boiler maker
and was wonder who was having good luck or bad
thanks
Did someone start a thread for What pots work best with Induction ?
Sorry to ask, I seem to remember seeing the thread, but I can't seem to find it now
I am looking at this 3500 watt induction
with either a NB Mega Pot 1.2 or a Blichmann Boiler maker
and was wonder who was having good luck or bad
thanks
Here is some info: request-induction-equipment-information
The 1.2 Megapots are really good and sturdy and have tri-ply bottoms. The Boilermakers are much thinner and have single bottoms that may warp and tweak from the high induction heat.
Read both threads, there's a lot of info there.
sumbrewindude
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I believe Blichman has stated publicly that their pots will not work with induction. I don't know anyone specifically that's using a Blichman pot with induction, but the Megapots have been proven good to go.
Also, I thought I remember reading something about thinner (within reason) pot bases being better for BOILING in induction usage, as you're not as concerned with an even heat that can be provided with the tri-clad bottoms but rather the transfer of heat through the pot to the liquid which is where the thin bottoms shine. They heat up faster, but with less uniformity.
Conjecture perhaps, but one of these induction posts also has times for boiling/heating on all the pots as well as which work. Graphing those could give credence to thin/thick bottom question.
Also, I thought I remember reading something about thinner (within reason) pot bases being better for BOILING in induction usage, as you're not as concerned with an even heat that can be provided with the tri-clad bottoms but rather the transfer of heat through the pot to the liquid which is where the thin bottoms shine. They heat up faster, but with less uniformity.
Conjecture perhaps, but one of these induction posts also has times for boiling/heating on all the pots as well as which work. Graphing those could give credence to thin/thick bottom question.
steveoatley
someone has to fail, so the rest of you look good
Thanks
Island Lizard & Sumbrewindude
I have tired of waiting for the Vaporware Blichmann - Boil Coil
And have decided to get the Induction 'burner'
So I am looking for the right pot 1
Thx
I will check out that other thread !
Island Lizard & Sumbrewindude
I have tired of waiting for the Vaporware Blichmann - Boil Coil
And have decided to get the Induction 'burner'
So I am looking for the right pot 1
Thx
I will check out that other thread !
You're very welcome!
Vaporware... accurate equipment category.
I saw those coils last year at the NHC in Philly and they do look great. The super low watt density and its stainless mantle is very attractive, alas, perhaps slightly under powered compared to typical ripple element installations. Can't blame you to look for alternatives, and the IC3500 is a great one. I also use it for making large batches of soup and wokking with a flat bottomed cast iron wok on a thin silicone "spacer" made of 1/16" slices cross-cut from a 1/2" silicone brewing hose.
The IC3500 cranks out a lot of heat in a small 6" disc shaped region in the pot. I found that area covered with a bit of a sticky/gluey residue at the end of the boil, an indication of some tenacious sticking or even some scorching. That's with an 8 gallon, 14" diameter Heavy Duty kettle from MoreBeer. I stir often and when doing so scrape that bottom area.
When deciding, definitely get a 10 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches (5.5-6 actually) if you want to end up with 5 in the keg. I have an 8 gallon pot and although manageable a bit too small. I'm not sure if a 15 or 16 gallon kettle is large enough for 10 gallons, and what kind of boil you would get on the IC3500.
Ok since you've convinced me to go this route couple of questions I'm hoping for help with. I'm pretty handy with most stuff......but electrical in general makes me nervous and 240v scares the bejeezes out of me. That being said the house we recently purchased had a hottub at one time so there is a 240v line coiled up and ready to make beer. In the panel it's a 30amp breaker which I think is good to go for this right?
And this is the line attached to that breaker.
So.... Do I just wire this up???
And is 20 amp on the outlet ok?
And how do I wire it as the wire has white red black and bare ground? Are there four terminals on the outlet or only three?
Also since the unit is designed to be used to cook stuff is it necessary to put gfi either as a breaker or spa panel (which was sold with the hottub) feel free to make fun of my lack of electrical knowledge. I figure it's better to ask since if my wife finds my charred remains on the basement floor she's gonna be really mad at me.
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And this is the line attached to that breaker.
So.... Do I just wire this up???
And is 20 amp on the outlet ok?
And how do I wire it as the wire has white red black and bare ground? Are there four terminals on the outlet or only three?
Also since the unit is designed to be used to cook stuff is it necessary to put gfi either as a breaker or spa panel (which was sold with the hottub) feel free to make fun of my lack of electrical knowledge. I figure it's better to ask since if my wife finds my charred remains on the basement floor she's gonna be really mad at me.
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If you're not comfortable working with electricity, maybe you can find a friend or someone who is. Wiring an outlet is not rocket science, neither does it require an advanced degree of any sort, but some common sense electricity-wise is needed. This is in regard to safe wiring practices like stripping wires, attaching terminals, capping, mounting, etc. There are a lot of safety issues that must be followed to prevent accidents, electrocution, or fire at any time.
- Since someone else, maybe not a pro, wired this previously, the installation of that existing "spa" circuit should be thoroughly checked.
- As it is, the wire should be "10-3 with ground" for powering that 30A "spa" circuit. It looks beefy enough on the picture, so it's probably that. The 30A breaker is a little overpowered for your use, since you're only using 15A with your cooker, but you can get away with it. Reason is, if a shortage should occur inside the cooker your cooker wire may melt before the breaker trips. That would be a rare occasion though.
- You need to verify the wires are attached to the breaker and ground bar inside the electrical panel correctly and are torqued down right.
- Then the wire should be followed as much as possible to check for crimps, chafing areas, pinches, possible junction boxes, etc.
- If there are junction boxes in the circuit they should be checked for correct wiring and termination.
- Typically Red and Black are phase (live) each carrying 120V while there is 240V between them. Red and Black should be connected to each of the 2 lugs on that 30A breaker.
- White should be neutral, and the bare copper one is ground. They should both be connected to the ground bar in the main panel.
- There's 120V between White and either Red OR Black, which can be used to wire a regular outlet simultaneously, for example to power a fan or hood, although doing so is not according to code. Circuits like that should be dedicated to one single function (e.g., hot tub, your cooker, or a machine).
- You do not need or even want GFCI when used with your Induction Burner. But there should be no water tap point within 3 feet (?) from your outlet/receptacle.
- Yes, that NEMA 6-20 receptacle (20A) is the right one. It has 3 lugs. Red and Black go to each side of the outlet, while the ground wire (bare copper) attaches to a (sometimes green-colored) lug near the top or bottom. The white wire is not used here and should be capped off with a wire nut.
If I missed anything maybe someone can chip in.
Appreciate the help I've replaced numerous 120 outlets to gfi switched ceiling fans and light fixtures so I know the actual doing I just don't understand what amperage can go with what and with the addition of the fourth wire where that goes.
The wire is in fact 8-3 so good there and it runs on the ceiling right over to where it used to go out to the tub no junctions or crimps looks good there.
Not terribly worried about the 30 amp breaker since it'll never be on without me being right there, the burner will be unplugged after use, and I'll probably just shut the breaker off when not in use since I have no other purpose for it.
So I'll run conduit down the wall to a box install the outlet with red and black, cap off the white, and connect copper to ground (woohoo knew that without help)
Last step order burner and pot before next northern ohio winter and not die from electrocution.
I'm just repeating your advice hope that sounds right and thank you again
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The wire is in fact 8-3 so good there and it runs on the ceiling right over to where it used to go out to the tub no junctions or crimps looks good there.
Not terribly worried about the 30 amp breaker since it'll never be on without me being right there, the burner will be unplugged after use, and I'll probably just shut the breaker off when not in use since I have no other purpose for it.
So I'll run conduit down the wall to a box install the outlet with red and black, cap off the white, and connect copper to ground (woohoo knew that without help)
Last step order burner and pot before next northern ohio winter and not die from electrocution.
I'm just repeating your advice hope that sounds right and thank you again
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Just looked at the wire again says awg 8 cu 3 cdr with awg 10 ground type nm-b. I'm no electrocutionist but I think that means the colored wires are 8 gauge and ground is 10 shouldn't be a problem right 8 is beefier than 10???
Ps please don't take my poor attempts at humor as not taking this seriously cause I really don't want to die and I'll at least have someone more knowledgable look it over before throwing the switch just want to make sure the breaker and wire are correct and I get the right outlet
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Ps please don't take my poor attempts at humor as not taking this seriously cause I really don't want to die and I'll at least have someone more knowledgable look it over before throwing the switch just want to make sure the breaker and wire are correct and I get the right outlet
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Yup, 8 gauge is fine, just a little stiffer to maneuver. I prefer screw lugs on receptacles and stay the heck away from push-in terminals. Can't believe those were ever accepted.
Your experience in rewiring receptacles is enough to tackle the job. Just be safe! You won't believe the hack jobs I've seen. No, I'm not an electrician, but have done my share of home wiring.
On that 6-20 receptacle, the left side has both the vertical and horizontal slots. The vertical makes it 20A, backwards compatible with 15A plugs (both prongs horizontal).
Conceivably you could run 2 of those plates on that same circuit. The wiring is heavy enough. The 30A breaker may hold but really should be upgraded to 40A in that case, to prevent overheating.
Just in case you're wondering, 240V GFCI panel breakers are ridiculously priced ($150+). If you ever want to expand with a brew control panel, installing a 50A SPA sub-panel is the cheapest and easiest solution. Your AWG 8 NM-B wiring *should be good for 50A* as long as all your terminations are also rated as such.
Confused me a little on that one by two plates do you mean two receptacles? If so I understand but only need one for now. Also not sure what you mean by vertical and horizontal on the outlet but I'm sure I'll get it when I see it I'm only used to 120 v
Thanks again
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Thanks again
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Didn't mean to confuse you.
You have 8 AWG wire to your panel, which supports 40A, possibly 50A with the right "terminations."
That means you could run 2 IC3500 plates at the same time from that same circuit if you wanted to, by installing a 2nd NEMA 6-20 receptacle. Each IC3500 pulls about 15A, for a total of 30A. If you did that, you would only need to replace the breaker with a 40A one since the existing 30A breaker would be at its limit.
Vertical vs. horizontal. Take a good look that picture you posted of the 6-20 receptacle, the left prong in particular.
The 6-20 receptacle and your IC3500 are rated at 20A, hence the left prong is vertical, the right one horizontal. But you can also plug in a 240V 15A device, where both prongs are horizontal.
This "keying" prevents you from plugging in a 20A device into a 15A circuit (both horizontal). But the reverse works fine.
I am sure there are many people using this with a Tower of Power or equivalent. My conscern is, when mash temp is reached and the induction burner cycles off, when it clicks back on when mash drops below the set temp, what wattage does the burner click back on to? Im visualizing a default setting and having to manually raise it to 3500 watts each time. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure there's no-one who uses the IC3500 or any other self-contained unit with such a controller. The controller turns devices off and on. Doing that resets the IC3500 internal circuitry, and doesn't automatically start it or controls its output.Conceivably it could be wired as such, bypassing or hacking the existing on-board circuitry.
Controllers work with simple, raw heating elements.
Quick Update: Had this burner going since March 2013 and on my 30th batch last night the internal fuse blew. I opened it up and soldered a wire over it temporarily but will have to find another fuse or breaker to replace it.
Cheers,
Eric
Cheers,
Eric
wobdee
Junior Member
Interesting, how big of batches do you brew and what setting do you normally boil at?
Conceivably it could be wired as such, bypassing or hacking the existing on-board circuitry.
Controllers work with simple, raw heating elements.
Hmmm....that puts a wrench in my plans. I have been seriously thinking of the Blichmann Breweasy, but really liked the idea of induction more. Recirculating with a temp controller is important to me, so maybe I have to consider the breweasy more closely. Thank you for the good info.
Siberian
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Using the IC3500 with a controller will be hazardous for it. When you turn it off with the panel the cooling fan keeps running for a while after.
Cutting the power would prevent this and potentially damage the unit. If you want this kind of control you will need to use a traditional electric element in the kettle.
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Cutting the power would prevent this and potentially damage the unit. If you want this kind of control you will need to use a traditional electric element in the kettle.
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That fan can easily be driven by a separate or modified circuit that is not affected by the power cut to the coil, and yeah, just cutting power at the lead may have detrimental effects over time.
Plus as I said cycling power won't turn the plate ON, it leaves it in OFF (standby?) mode. Only when the ON button is pressed it will go into default 1200W mode and starts heating at that power setting.
If one is clever and electronically apt the IC3500 could be modified to be controlled with a more sophisticated system such as a PID and temp probe. Beware, the internal high voltage system needs to be respected appropriately, and general electrical safety guidelines to be followed.
rayf
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking about using a 3-way solenoid valve, pump, induction cooker, heat exchanger(stainless chiller) and a temp controller to circulate the wort continuously and to maintain the wort temp in a ten gallon Water cooler.
The temp controller would be set at mash temp. The Temp controller would be connected to the 3-way solenoid valve electrically. The wort would circulate continuously out of the bottom of the mash tun through the 3 way valve back to the top of the mash tun. When the mash calls for heat via temp probe in the mash tun the 3 way solenoid valve changes state so the worts direction is then circulating through a heat exchanger inside the MLT fired by an induction cooker(possibly set at sparge water temperature) until it reaches correct temp and then changes back to continuously circulating when the mash heats up to correct temperature.
The water that was used in the HLT for maintaining my mash through the heat exchanger now becomes my sparge water. I would either have a second pump to sparge and transfer to BK or just gravity feed to boil kettle.
I think I'm onto something here. Anyone following me on this?
We use this system for heating and cooling baths in the plant I work in.
We call it a loop system.
The temp controller would be set at mash temp. The Temp controller would be connected to the 3-way solenoid valve electrically. The wort would circulate continuously out of the bottom of the mash tun through the 3 way valve back to the top of the mash tun. When the mash calls for heat via temp probe in the mash tun the 3 way solenoid valve changes state so the worts direction is then circulating through a heat exchanger inside the MLT fired by an induction cooker(possibly set at sparge water temperature) until it reaches correct temp and then changes back to continuously circulating when the mash heats up to correct temperature.
The water that was used in the HLT for maintaining my mash through the heat exchanger now becomes my sparge water. I would either have a second pump to sparge and transfer to BK or just gravity feed to boil kettle.
I think I'm onto something here. Anyone following me on this?
We use this system for heating and cooling baths in the plant I work in.
We call it a loop system.
JustLooking
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rayf
Well-Known Member
Hey JustLooking, do you have that system? I was planning to use a water heater element in the HLT rather than the propane. I'm also going to use an induction cooker for the boil. I initially thought I could use the induction cooker as my heat source for the mash process but unfortunately the Ic3500 only runs by increments of 10.
Hi Guys,
Similar to rayf, i'm thinking of a way to automate temp control with this induction plate. However, i'm trying to keep things "simple", and stick with a single vessel eBIAB. I'm hoping to keep mash temps constant by writing some arduino code and having a thermometer and servo connected to the arduino. My plan is to mount the servo act as a finger and push the on/off button on the induction plate. I'm not expecting to blast the on/of button with many changes, it would mostly be 3-4 on/offs for a few mins over a 60 min mash. I'm mostly looking to not baby sit the mash, and have pretty graphs at the end
I'm not sure if this will work, so i have a few questions for people that already own the plate:
Does the unit turn on when the power button is pressed, or does it require multiple buttons to be pressed to start?
What is the default power level when started? can the default be changed? should i even worry about changing it?
Does it get hot around the buttons while brewing? ie will by servo burn up?
Is the button difficult to press?
Thanks for your help!
Similar to rayf, i'm thinking of a way to automate temp control with this induction plate. However, i'm trying to keep things "simple", and stick with a single vessel eBIAB. I'm hoping to keep mash temps constant by writing some arduino code and having a thermometer and servo connected to the arduino. My plan is to mount the servo act as a finger and push the on/off button on the induction plate. I'm not expecting to blast the on/of button with many changes, it would mostly be 3-4 on/offs for a few mins over a 60 min mash. I'm mostly looking to not baby sit the mash, and have pretty graphs at the end
I'm not sure if this will work, so i have a few questions for people that already own the plate:
Does the unit turn on when the power button is pressed, or does it require multiple buttons to be pressed to start?
What is the default power level when started? can the default be changed? should i even worry about changing it?
Does it get hot around the buttons while brewing? ie will by servo burn up?
Is the button difficult to press?
Thanks for your help!
Sounds cool, MrRumples. The unit does turn on with a light press of the power button, and the default is 1200W. I do not know of a way to change the default, but I think you may want a little more juice if you are doing a step mash versus just maintaining your infusion mash temperature. To just maintain, 1200W should hold it just fine. It does not get hot around the buttons. I must see photos of this when complete!Hi Guys,
Similar to rayf, i'm thinking of a way to automate temp control with this induction plate. However, i'm trying to keep things "simple", and stick with a single vessel eBIAB. I'm hoping to keep mash temps constant by writing some arduino code and having a thermometer and servo connected to the arduino. My plan is to mount the servo act as a finger and push the on/off button on the induction plate. I'm not expecting to blast the on/of button with many changes, it would mostly be 3-4 on/offs for a few mins over a 60 min mash. I'm mostly looking to not baby sit the mash, and have pretty graphs at the end
I'm not sure if this will work, so i have a few questions for people that already own the plate:
Does the unit turn on when the power button is pressed, or does it require multiple buttons to be pressed to start?
What is the default power level when started? can the default be changed? should i even worry about changing it?
Does it get hot around the buttons while brewing? ie will by servo burn up?
Is the button difficult to press?
Thanks for your help!
Hi Guys,
Similar to rayf, i'm thinking of a way to automate temp control with this induction plate. However, i'm trying to keep things "simple", and stick with a single vessel eBIAB. I'm hoping to keep mash temps constant by writing some arduino code and having a thermometer and servo connected to the arduino. My plan is to mount the servo act as a finger and push the on/off button on the induction plate. I'm not expecting to blast the on/of button with many changes, it would mostly be 3-4 on/offs for a few mins over a 60 min mash. I'm mostly looking to not baby sit the mash, and have pretty graphs at the end
I'm not sure if this will work, so i have a few questions for people that already own the plate:
Does the unit turn on when the power button is pressed, or does it require multiple buttons to be pressed to start?
What is the default power level when started? can the default be changed? should i even worry about changing it?
Does it get hot around the buttons while brewing? ie will by servo burn up?
Is the button difficult to press?
Thanks for your help!
Amazing how these ideas to automate processes spawn, even using cat in the hat methods. Instead of pushing the power button, you could have your servo press the up and down buttons to regulate power instead. Or even better, hack into the circuitry to regulate the power directly or more finely. I haven't opened mine up yet, but I bet there's a chip that controls the display, interfaces with the controls, and has the timing values stored. The power values shown are:
500<>800<>1000<>1200<>1500<>1800<>2100<>2500<>2700<>2900<>3100<>3500W, IIRC.
Seems like a lot of hassle to avoid "tending the mash" for an hour. I'm not familiar with BIAB mashing, but just heating the bottom doesn't necessarily transfer the heat to the top, aside from risk of scorching and/or rapid enzyme denaturing. Or are you still stirring or planning to recirculate?
In the last case a simple RIMS tube controlled by a PID is fairly simple, and does give you much better control, also for step mashes. I'm looking in that direction myself. Until then there's nothing wrong with the mashtun cooler I'm using right now. Even a step mash is possible, yet a bit messy by scooping out and heating up portions.
Please keep us informed on how you're implementing this, and some pix of the solution of course.
dyqik
Well-Known Member
If you're going to go for that kind of hack, wouldn't make far more sense to open the unit and tap into the contacts on the back of the buttons? Just put cheap relays or voltage outputs onto each button's contact to fake pressing the button.
<Heavy_London_Accent> Brilliant! </Accent>
I had thought of that, but it seemed a lot easier to just put the servo next to the button. It doesnt require me to open the induction plate, void warranty, potentially damage the business end (which scares me a little!). However after some more googling of "induction plate arduino", i might be feeling a little more brave.
I plan to recirc with a pump. I agree with you that the RIMS tube is easy enough, and I could even put that on a separate 120V circuit, etc. But the main thing i'm looking for with my build is less equipment, less cleaning, less work! One pot, one heater, one pump.
dyqik
Well-Known Member
The issue with that kind of hack is that you don't have any feedback to know what state the controller is in. You can't tell if your button presses are coming too close together, or that something has gone wrong.
But it's significantly more reliable than a mechanical interface doing the same thing, while exposed to hot sticky wort...
Do they make induction burners big enough to hold a 15g kettle that is about 15 inches wide. Would also need to be more powerful, like 5500w
Hmm, if you pulse the contacts as if you were pushing the actual up/down buttons, the display should change following the chip's program. Now your external controller doesn't know the set temp unless you keep track of pulses applied in either direction starting from a given default. And yes you're right, there's no direct feedback of state, as in many hacks.
I've seen the reports where 10 gallon batches (~13-14 gallons of wort) are boiled successfully using just the IC3500, but my latest experience is a bit different.
Last week I brewed an 11 gallon, double batch of Belgian Wit in my 15 gallon Northern Brewer Megapot (same as Morebeer's Heavy Duty pot, but weldless). It has the 5mm tri-ply sandwich bottom and the walls are 1.2 mm thick. It also has its signature wide ass aspect ratio, 17 3/4" diameter x 14 1/8" high (inside measurements).
It took a long time to get the 13 gallons to a boil after the mash, and as I usually do, I start heating runnings while sparging, and add them as I go.
When the wort finally came to a boil it was not a very strong one. Just a little rising in the center. So I cladded the outside with several layers of large bubble wrap, which didn't help all that much and ended up covering 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot with the lid. This looked familiar, when boiling 7 gallons on my stove.
When partial covering, the boil-off, and energy needed for that, is reduced, yet a significant amount of steam still escapes. Undoubtedly there is some refluxing taking place on the bottom of the lid, but I've never had any DMS issues that way, and I know what DMS smells and tastes like.
The wort temp was 111.7-111.9°F around the perimeter, so that was good. I'm at sea level.
I finished the 90' boil, wishing for a bit more power all along. A 110V 1500W heat stick may just add that extra needed oomph. Or a mounted support element in the bottom. Pass me that drill bit please...
My 20-gallon pot is 17.25 inches wide and works fine on this cooktop.
http://johnsonrose.com/product.php?item=47802
I do leave the lid partially on for a more vigorous boil, but removed it for this clip. I boiled off 2.8 gallons in 90 minutes.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ7-h0D69wo[/ame]
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