Full boils on the stovetop - getting depressed here...

Recently got a Blichmann Boilermaker 10 gallon kettle. I've been using a 5 gallon pot doing 3.5 - 4 gallon boils until now. Well I tested today trying to boil 6.25 gallons of water and after an hour and a half I was only at 180 degrees. I know the stovetop sucks but I was really hoping to be able to do this on the stovetop and have read many that are doing it successfully. Guess my stove sucks. Trying to use two burners seemed even worse. It slowed down the temp climb. It took so long I gave up on the boil and am out here smoking a cigar posting from my phone. Thing is doing it outside on a propane burner seems way too much hassle. Freezing winter temps, frequent rain/snow, moving the wort into the house, etc. I don't like the idea of electric heat sticks and the garage usually has the father in laws cars in there.

Basically, without replacing my entire stove or using electric heating devices am I confined to boil outside? I figured 6.25 gallons is about right to compensate for boil off.

Lastly, I figure I may get some ridicule whining about this on a public forum since others are doing this successfully. I just would like to do this indoors if I can. If I can't I will suck it up and probably do it outside on a propane burner.

Any suggestions?


Rev.

best suggestion is to suck it up. i know it gets icy there (used to drive a lot through nj), but an electric stove really isn't up to full boils

Are you on electric stove or gas? Electric does suck.
Getting to a boil is usually harder than maintaining a boil. It might be a PITA but you could try using your boilermaker plus another smaller pot on a second burner just to get the wort to a boil. Then combine the two into your big pot and my guess is that it would be able to maintain a boil after a few minutes. Try with water first.

I do full boils on my cheapass electric stovetop with my 8G kettle with a starting volume of around 7G typically. I have 2 heatsticks. I always have at least 1 going, I'll throw in the 2nd one as well if I really want to get up to a boil fast(i have 2 separate circuits in close proximity to the stove). But with just the 1 1500w heatstick plus the big burner on high, I can get up to boiling pretty fast.

without any heatsticks i'd barely get a simmer after 45 minutes, though.

I have an electric stove and I do full boils all the time. One thing I think I have going for me is that I also do ag brews so what I am putting the stove is already pretty hot. If you are using the pot I think you are the problem is the size of the pots base vs. The size of the burner. I don't have any suggestions on how to improve that unless you did stove top with a electric element in the pot to help the water along. Good luck!

Yeah the pot base is quite bigger than the burner. Oh, and I have a gas stove, not electric. I have a perfect spot in the basement where we all do laundry. It's a concrete floor and there's a utility sink right next to me - perfect for the wort chiller. However, the thought of me using a propane burner anywhere indoors has the wife totally frightened about the house burning down. Is she right here? Should I just totally forgo the idea? I mean, I have a fire extinguisher LOL.


Rev.

I think the unventilated propane burner problem has as much to do with carbon monoxide as fire hazard.

I agree with Oly. Get few pots, plus your 10G Blichmann close to boiling temps and combine into the Blichmann. Once all wort is up to temp it's not hard to keep it there. (I don't recommend pouring boiling liquid.. that's up to your ability and comfort zone). I know you have your reasons and I probably shouldn't ask, but why not just go to the local home depot or Lowes and get a turkey fryer kit? They're about 60-70 dollars plus a propane tank another 30-40 dollar investment and you can easily boil much more wort. Well worth it IMHO.

Later if you go all grain use the same Blichmann boiler maker pot you have now for the entire boil, you can use the same propane burner and and 30 qt pot that comes with the TF kit to transfer your mash runnings into the Blichmann.

http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm

if you're in an apartment or other situation where outdoor brewing is impossible. just remember to always always use a gfci circuit and don't go too high on the wattage or energy density of the element.

Dan said:

Get few pots, plus your 10G Blichmann close to boiling temps and combine into the Blichmann. Once all wort is up to temp it's not hard to keep it there. (I don't recommend pouring boiling liquid.. that's up to your ability and comfort zone).

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I've thought about even using the tea kettle to keep boiling and adding the boiling water to speed up the process to boiling. I'm ok with doing that but my worry is mainly keeping a boil going. When I got my Blichmann and immersion chiller I did a boil test just to see how quick I can cool down some water from boiling to pitchable temps and I wasn't concerned about other details so I boiled 5 gallons of water. I put on the lid to speed up the boil and got it to a boil ok in a reasonable amount of time. Once at a boil I removed the lid and to my surprised shortly thereafter it stopped boiling! I wasn't too concerned at the time so I cooled the boil with the chiller and was happy with the cool down time.

However, I am now worried from that test that I may have a problem keeping the boil going since the boil receded when I removed the lid.


Rev.

don't know at this point. maybe someone with a stove that can keep the right temp can help answer the question, once they read your question. your stove can't do a full boil is what it sounds like; you might have to either boil outside or use a heatstick

Solution: :Make smaller batches or topp off. Im about to attempt a double small batch boil this weekend boiling 4 gallons giving me 2/3 of a batch that will fit into both my 2 gallon fermenters, if i do this successfully im definatly getting a 3 gallon carboy. Im at a breaking point in brewing that im confident enough to start making bigger batches after experimenting with a differnet brew almost every week for a year,plus i can use a whole pack of yeast, or start using liquid vials which is another reason.Experimentation is great something new all the time in brewing,im still in love.
You need to know your limit for your boil, otherwise you need to make amends, if you dont have the money, then just do partial boils.I dont know wether topping off sucks, but i see it alot in books/recipes so im shure its fine.My opiinon without experience in this is to avoid topping off-its only a thing like i cook but i dont want to do it that way.With so many variables its hard to determine what you did right or wrong, it can be many things.

Ok let me get this straight, you have a gas stove in your basement. What is the difference between a jet styled burner mounted on a small steel stand and the gas stove other than size? You CAN get burners that run on the exact same gas set up that is in your basement. With a sink near by (Water source and drain) you are just about as ready for a basement brewery as I have ever heard of.

Grab your stuff and get some planning in, IMO a whole stove is the same size as 1/2 to 2/3 a brew card/stand. Toss in a pump or two...

I would post up a CL add and sell the stove and buy a NICE burner and a decent stand.

Insulate the crap out of it. Consider buying a canning element (~$23) for your largest burner.

My method with a horrible stove: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/stovetop-problems-ag-224438/#post2637327

I can boil over 8 gallons reasonably strongly

edit: nevermind assumed you had electric

I brew on an electric stove and only do full boils. I have a 6 gallon pot and a 3 gallon pot and do a 4 gallon and 2 gallon boil in each pot and when I've gone through my hot break and am comfortable with the boil off I just pour the boiling water into my large pot. The one issue this may cause is poorer hop utilization but it is what is it. I even do all grain with this method and has worked out great. As for not being able to keep a boil going I don't know what to tell you. I can maintain a pretty steady boil with 5 gallons on my electric element no problem. It's about 15 minutes to get my wort from my spathe temps to boiling.

Zamial said:

Ok let me get this straight, you have a gas stove in your basement.

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LOL, no, my stove is in the kitchen. I was saying there's space in the basement.


Rev.

OK, first I would like to thank everyone so far for their input and suggestions!

Next, I think I've come up with a workable plan which I will outline now followed by a question or two. I'm thinking now that maybe the 6.5 gallons I was trying to boil (the excess for boil off) might be a struggle on my stove top. So I've come up with this:

1. Start the boil with about 3 gallons or so. When that is getting close to a boil use a tea kettle or two, might even buy larger ones, to heat water to a boil and incrementally add the boiling tea kettle water to the brew kettle. I would be boiling in the tea kettles with the lids off to avoid any DMS or whatnot.
2. Get a full 5 gallons only to a roiling boil.
3. As boil off occurs at certain points I can add more boiling tea kettle water to the pot to maintain 5 gallons boil.
4. When the brew time has ended I can have a kettle or two ready with boiling water to top off to 5 gallons if I boiled off more than expected then use my immersion chiller to cool.

I think this method will solve a number of issues. For one I should be able to achieve boil much quicker using the other burners to heat water in tea kettles. I know someone else suggested using my other smaller brew pot to boil water but I can't for the life of me figure out a safe way to move the boiling water into the main kettle outside of using some kind of metal cup to scoop out and pour - and that too is still not very safe. Also, if for any reason 5 gallons is a struggle I can boil 4 I know for a fact and top off later with boiling water.

Secondly, I should be able to keep a boil with exactly 5 gallons as opposed to 6.5. Lastly, any differential can be made up for right at the end.

Now, my questions - 1. Does this sound like a good plan? 2. Tea kettles are dome shaped with a smaller opening at the top, is it still fine to boil in them with the lids off to avoid any DMS?

In a final note, I am not concerned in the slightest about hop utilization as I will be keeping 5 gallons boiling and I will use that factor when plugging into Beersmith. I also think any discrepancy will be very slight and I can always adjust later as I gain experience doing it this way. So what's the consensus?


Rev.

If you like to DIY, you can pick up a drop-in range top from CL or other source and rebuild it like this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/lives-stovezilla-born-177317/

Works great. I do have to spend 10 or 15 minutes baking the moisture out of the elements if I haven't used it in a while - otherwise it trips the GFCI breaker, but after that initial bake, it works with no problems. I can get 8 gallons (most I've tried) to a very vigorous boil and hold it for as long as I want (I've done several 60 minute and one 90 minute boil).

Of course, building this was a lot more work than putting a water heater element in my pot, but I like not having anything sticking into the pot - nothing to hit while stirring, and it makes clean-up really easy. Besides, I like to be different.

I had tthe same issue as you. Then I made a heat stick.
I know you don't want to use one, but it solved my problem perfectly. I still brew inside, it cost me 30 bucks.

Going outside is a PITA but honestly, if you're doing it right you really need not spend moe than maybe 20 minutes out there. Here's the process I found, and keep in mind I'm doing AG with a cooler.

-Fill up turkey fryer with water. Bring it outside and get it to a boil.
-Empty turkey fryer into the Igloo Mash Tun and add cold water from the tap or boiling water from an electric kettle.
-Mash out and bring the kettle outside.
-Get kettle to boil, throttle it down for the protein break and leave it alone.

Honestly the thing to remember in all of this is that the first few minutes of putting heat to something is the time span where it's most likely NOT to boil. Don't wander off, but also realize that you don't really need to be there right away.

And use the lid to keep heat in on the kettle. When it's at a boil leave it off but to kick it all of keep the top on! I would also suggest waterproofing a remote thermometer so that you can know what's going on without even being there.

Back in my extract days, I used to do full boils on the LP gas cooktop. Problem was that the biggest burner only cranks out about 8.5K BTU. This resulted in over an hour for the boil in my 30 qt. SS pot. I cut this time down 20 minutes or so by getting some automotive firewall insulation from JC Whitney and insulating the pot. It's about 3/4" thick, and Whitney also sells the spray glue and foil tape to attach it properly. Doesn't seem like insulating the pot would cut down the heating time by that much, but it does.

I still use the same pot out in the garage, now that I'm doing AG. I might also note that even with a turkey fryer burner, the heat doesn't burn the tape or insulation the pot is wrapped in.

As for beating the heat of Summer or the frigid Winters out there.....I just restrict my brewing to Spring & Fall only.

Just suck it up and brew outside or go electric. What you are planning might work, but good luck having a repeatable process when you add water about 5-6 times during the boil. I brew in the Quebec winter and I live on a windy mountain face. I manage it just fine.

Yeah, Ive been seriously considering brewing outside since having this issue. My only real concern now is where to drain off the IC water. We have a backyard garden and hose out there but no floor drain of any kind. Not sure if it would be good releasing that much water into the grass especially during times where it will freeze up quickly. There's a utility sink in the basement and a small window I can run a hose through but it will be a long tube.

Rev.

OK, well I tested that method I mentioned earlier. I was able to get the temps up much quicker, including using hot water from the tap to start with. However, once again it took forever to go from 206 to 210. I simply could not maintain a vigorous boil on my stove top, I got a basic simmer which appeared to hold at 211

Then I noticed my stove has one burner called Power Boost Burner and looked it up and found a manual that says it's a higher output 12,000 BTU burner. I felt stupid at first because that is the burner I always used with my last 5 gallon pot doing partial boils. Well, I moved the Blichmann over to it and there was NO difference whatsoever. It doesn't even appear to be a higher output so I don't know what's up here.

Apparently this Blichmann just can't boil on my stovetop. I even tried 4 gallons and had pretty much the same result. I noticed my 5 gallon economy kettle with the sandwiched steel-aluminum-steel bottom seems to be thicker and heavier in build than the 10 gallon Boilermaker which only feels a little heavier than my 5 gallon pot. I wonder if things would be any different if it were thicker walled.

Anyhow, I'm going to see if there is any way to increase my stove gas output. If not I'm buying a Blichmann floor burner and will have to do it outside when I can and do partial boils on the stove for days where I simply can not brew outside. Still depressed lol.


Rev.

Guess you've gotta get a better stove or move outdoors. Don't know what to tell you man.

Hate to say it, but get some coveralls and learn to love the cold. I have brewed in -15 wind chills, all my neighbors think I'm either insane or bad-ass. For 5G batches a turkey fryer will work wonderfully.

Not to be rude but.....why would you buy a Blingmann kettle and then try to boil on your stove? You can get a propane burner for like 50 bucks at Home Depot. It will boil way faster than anything in your kitchen. I am assuming you are brewing extract so how much time do you actually have to be outside? Once you have a boil under control you can go inside. You don't have to watch it boil!!

Phunhog said:

Not to be rude but.....why would you buy a Blingmann kettle and then try to boil on your stove? You can get a propane burner for like 50 bucks at Home Depot. It will boil way faster than anything in your kitchen. I am assuming you are brewing extract so how much time do you actually have to be outside? Once you have a boil under control you can go inside. You don't have to watch it boil!!

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Your post wasn't rude at all, good questions actually but I do have an answer. Before getting the 10 gallon Blichmann I searched online and found a bunch of posts from others saying they were able to boil a full batch with their Blichmann on their stovetop. The users ranged from gas stove owners to electric stove owners and I didn't find any real postings indicating a problem.

Secondly, I've boiled 4 gallons in my 5 gallon economy kettle, but almost never do that much that cause the boil over risk is too high, so I thought boiling about 6.5 gallons would work ok. But, I was wrong. So that is why I went with the Blichmann, well that and because all the features make for a whole lot of convenience and quicker brewing experience. I'm nowhere near rich, but I'm making an ok income and we both work. My step father's father had a motto and it was "It doesn't pay to buy cheap". So, where possible, I tend to buy the more top of the line best rated gear so I don't have to do it all over again. I have no problem buying the Blichmann floor burner and it appears now that is what I will be doing. I was just hoping I could keep it in the kitchen for convenience. Of course, the benefit to doing this outside is a much quicker steep and boil reach time. Plus I won't have to hear the mother-in-law whine about the house smelling like beer brewing


Rev.