Bad DMS taste in cream ale

My first all grain brew was a pale ale and it was great, My second batch (cream ale) not so much. It had a massive corn taste and was way darker than it should have been. The taste was so bad I couldn't even choke down so in the drain it went.

I am assuming this is the mistake I made after reading the forum: I came up short on my volume as I am still getting use to how much boils off so I used some light dry extract to bring it up to 5 gallons. I only boiled the extract for 30 mins when I started noticing I wasn't close to my volume, and must have not been enough to get the DMS out.

Anyways thought I would post my bad experience, gotta learn from the mistakes and move on. At least next week I will have my wheat beer flavored with oranges and coriander that looks great in my fermenter.

anyways happy brewing!

Extract shouldn't give you any DMS- it's already been processed so it doesn't even really need to be boiled.

Maybe there is some other reason you got a DMS bomb. Did you use any unusual ingredients, take a long time to cool the batch, or boil (or chill) with the lid on?

60 min boil with the lid off and I used a immersion chiller and had the wort cooled within 15 mins so I figured it had to be something with the extract. Guess I am not even sure how I got that much DMS now. It was such an overwhelming corn taste and it looked extremely off color, almost had a red tint to it.

xattamrs said:

60 min boil with the lid off and I used a immersion chiller and had the wort cooled within 15 mins so I figured it had to be something with the extract. Guess I am not even sure how I got that much DMS now. It was such an overwhelming corn taste and it looked extremely off color, almost had a red tint to it.

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Red tint? That's bizarre. I assume it had a normal recipe. Did you have any problems in the boil? That would explain some dark coloring, but not necessarily the DMS.

Why don't you post your recipe so we can see what you did.

It was just just darker than my pale ale, maybe the "red tint" is the most accurate it was just a cream ale kit from Northern brewer. I don't believe any problems occurred from the boil problems at all with the boil. Hit all my temps, gravity was in range, 3 weeks primary. Only issue I had was just short on my volume. Thats why I am confused what caused such a off taste.

Since then I now know how much I boil off and didn't have any problem hitting my volume on my wheat beer.

Revvy said:

Why don't you post your recipe so we can see what you did.

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7 lbs 2 row pale malt
12 oz honey malt
4 oz biscuit malt
1 oz cluster 60 mins

I am confused. If it was an AG recipe, why did you use DME?

greeneyed said:

I am confused. If it was an AG recipe, why did you use DME?

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I was short on my volume I didn't want to top off and dilute the beer with water so I boiled DME in a 1.5 gallons of water to top off. It was a late addition so I figured maybe that was my issue.

What was your gravity reading?

1.047
1.012

Wow. I'm at a loss. The only thing I can think of is some scorching of the wort. But that wouldn't taste like corn- it'd taste burnt.

The recipe looks ok. Maybe some darkening because of the extract and honey malt, but otherwise ok. I'm at a complete loss to explain. Any fermentation/yeast issues?

YooperBrew said:

Wow. I'm at a loss. The only thing I can think of is some scorching of the wort. But that wouldn't taste like corn- it'd taste burnt.

The recipe looks ok. Maybe some darkening because of the extract and honey malt, but otherwise ok. I'm at a complete loss to explain. Any fermentation/yeast issues?

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Safale S-04 yeast took off within 24 hours and fermented fairly quickly. Guess I will just chalk it up as a strange happening. It is only my second batch and I did jump right in to all grain so who knows. All I know is my pale ale was excellent and the beer sitting in my primary looks great.

Are there any other main causes besides boiling with the lid on and not cooling the wort fast enough? I have never had a cream ale before, but this taste was so over powering that I figured it must have been DMS

DMS usually only occurs in those situations, or I've heard that with a 60 minute boil with pilsner malt (instead of 90 minutes). I've boiled worts with pilsner malt for 60 minutes without any DMS, though.

I'm wondering if your vegetal character has more to do with stressed yeast, like a high (or low) temperature, or infection.

I usually do 90's with pilsner, but haven't had any issues with 60 brews for 2-row.

I've never used cluster, anyone familiar with it, could the vegetal NOT be dms, but be from the hops, or a combo of the hops and honey malt?

And here's this from the off flavor list.

Vegetal
Cooked vegetable is an off-flavor described best as cooked corn, cabbage or broccoli. It is caused by low levels of sulfur-based compounds primarily perceived in aroma & to a lesser extent in flavor. Primary source is from malt or malt extract. The first corrective step would be to purchase better quality product. If flavor persists, engage in longer boils to drive off those nasty volitiles. Bacteria may also produce sulfur compounds responsible for cooked vegetable via wort and/or yeast infection. Reuse of yeast without proper controls may introduce bacteria that eventually causes flavor degradation.

Steps to correct this problem include: sanitation, fresh quality malt products, longer boiling, proper yeast amounts when pitching.

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Thanks Revvy it could be Vegetal. When I tasted it it screamed burnt corn so thats why I thought DMS, Im just chalking it up to ingredients and inexperience. I am going to read up on other off flavors and move on. Well at least the next brew will be ready for the colts game.