Electric 1.5 BBL Upgrade

So here are the pics of the progress I made that I mentioned in the last post:

Frame Primed:


Close up of some of the welds and fittings and such:
Sight glass and one of the nuts with an element threaded in


The bottom drain with butterfly valve on it. Also the welder made the custom length elbow, turned out nicely. I have ordered some pipe supports to hold the weight of the valve and piping so that the bottom triclover isn't taking all the weight. Working the valve puts lots of force on it.


Close up of a temp prob with M8 connector for easy removal.


Inside shot of the elements i threaded in. Its what I had on hand. 2 x 4500 and a 5500:
I'm really glad I thought ahead about how long the heating elements were before I had the nuts welded on. I had to offset them vertically.


Comment!!

Edit: Oh yeah!! I filled the thing with water and no leaks!!! 2 more to test out.

How did you get rid of the lids? Grinder?

Mikeystewart said:

How did you get rid of the lids? Grinder?

Click to expand...

Yup. 4" cutting wheel on a dewalt angle grinder. I thought about building a jig and then said screw it and just free handed it. Cuts turned out pretty darn nice. Even the welder said I did a good job on them. There was a really nice radius where the lids were rolled over the top of the drums that I could follow very easily with the angle grinder. I did all 3 of them in about 45 min- 1 hour. I need to clean them up a bit with a flapper wheel. But I don't have one atm. I'll make a quick Home Depot run today and get them cleaned up so I don't cut myself.

Very cool. As far as separating the hops go, have you thought about whirlpooling before chilling and then going out of the side of your whirlpool vessel?

thats gonna be a lot of beer? whos all going to be drinking this if your not gonna sell it? i would like to nominate myself.

DrawTap88 said:

Very cool. As far as separating the hops go, have you thought about whirlpooling before chilling and then going out of the side of your whirlpool vessel?

Click to expand...

I've definitely thought about it, I would need an extra furrel welded onto the boil kettle for a side drain/whirlpool recirc.

I ended up building a 50' CFC over the weekend. I had the hose lying around so I just bought the copper and threw it together. I think this will work well for chilling with a bunch of trub in the wort. I'll do my best to keep it seperated, but I think I can just dump the majority of it out of the conical fermenter right before active fermentation gets going.

Let's put it this way. If it's a problem down the road, I may have to go the route you are suggesting. Right now, I think it will be easily manageable with either hop bags/hop spider/false bottom/nothing. I use nothing in my 10 gal set up and it works fine.

Thanks for the suggestion!

rycov said:

thats gonna be a lot of beer? whos all going to be drinking this if your not gonna sell it? i would like to nominate myself.

Click to expand...

Haha, but I AM selling it. That's the whole point. Regardless I would be happy to have you drink some of it. Come on out to CO and stop by, beers are free until I open up. Even then I'll give HBT members a decent discount.

cruelkix said:

I want all my equipment good to go before I drop the Money on 3 months of rent I'll never see profit from. Damn Government ....

Click to expand...

sorry. i misunderstood this to mean your spending all this money and can't make money off the beer.

well good luck! if i'm ever out your way i'll come buy some of your beers!

cruelkix said:

Haha, but I AM selling it. That's the whole point. Regardless I would be happy to have you drink some of it. Come on out to CO and stop by, beers are free until I open up. Even then I'll give HBT members a decent discount.

Click to expand...

you going to be down in the springs area anytime soon?

Looks awesome man. Do you have a store front or anything yet?

wedge421 said:

Looks awesome man. Do you have a store front or anything yet?

Click to expand...

Thanks! Not yet. I am currently hunting for a good location. I'd say in about a month I would like to have a place ready to rent.

mcaple1 said:

you going to be down in the springs area anytime soon?

Click to expand...

I can't say I find myself in the springs very often. Got a good reason for me to go down there? It's really not all that far.

I don't THINK you've addressed this yet, but my apologies if i missed it. what's your ideal square footage for the buildings you're looking at? I assume you need an area for the actual brewing system and sinks and such, a cold room for fermentation (maybe one for serving vessels/kegs?), room for malt and all sorts of brewing supplies (bottles, kegs, hoses, what have you). How small can you go with all that stuff? Also do you have a hood or vent or something like that for the brewsystem?

hillhousesawdustco said:

I don't THINK you've addressed this yet, but my apologies if i missed it. what's your ideal square footage for the buildings you're looking at? I assume you need an area for the actual brewing system and sinks and such, a cold room for fermentation (maybe one for serving vessels/kegs?), room for malt and all sorts of brewing supplies (bottles, kegs, hoses, what have you). How small can you go with all that stuff? Also do you have a hood or vent or something like that for the brewsystem?

Click to expand...

You are correct. I have not brought this up yet.

I looked at a bunch of industrial zoned places when I had initially thought about just distributing. At that time I saw a lot of 1000 sq ft. places and really that was a TON of space to "just" brew in . I think with the need for room for everything you mentioned, I would want a minimum of 1200 sq ft. Half for brewing stuff half for serving stuff. 600 sq ft. seems small, but sq. ft. = $$. I can always move or expand if I out grow the place. I would ideally find a small place with potential to grow when the need arises. I am def going the cold room for fermentation and serving vessals like you mentioned.

I dont have a hood or vent as it is all electric but I would assume that whatever municipality I end up in will want to get me to install one.

I think I've said a few times that realestate is going to be the most difficult part of this entire venture, both location and cost being so important.

So the frame is painted and the kettles have all the tri clovers welded on with equipment attached. Not a huge update, but pics say a lot right?

Looks awesome, I'm jealous

So at lunch today a truck pulled up and dropped off my fermeneters!



I'm pretty excited! 4 showed up but I had to send one back due to damage.

85 gallons a piece!! 5 kegs worth of beer. Double batch 40 gallons into each one.

Cost me $1700 for 4 shipped. Shipping was stupid expensive and I dont want to talk about it, especailly considering they damaged one. Ridiculous.


On a seperate note:

Majikterror said:

Looks awesome, I'm jealous

Click to expand...

Thanks!

dang, i wanna see those fermenters...stupid work blocks so many websites

Ok, So now that I have these bad boys I need to modify them so I can maintain temperature during active fermentation. My current thinking is as follows.

The lids are approximately 14" across and relatively solid. I plan on placing a stainless steel coil in each tank and running chilled water/glycol through it to maintain temps based off a temperature controller, a pump, and some solenoid valves. I'll figure out how to chill the cooling liquid later. I will prob place a reservoir in my walk in cooler. The hole for the CIP spray ball will also be used as a pressure release with an airlock/blow off valve during fermentation. I'm planning on laying it out like this:



The underside of the Lid:



My questions are:

1) In my head I'm thinking the diameter of the SS coil for chilling barely matters. Fermentation does not produce THAT much heat, so I can get away with 1/4" I.D. S.S. pipe for the coil I would think? Anyone disagree with that? Should I bump it to 3/8" I.D.? Anyone have a good site for cheap stainless steel bendable piping? In the same train of thought, not much heat, I think I can get away with like 20 feet of coil per fermenter if not less. Again, any disagreements?

2) When I punch through the plastic, what can I use to maintain a good airtight seal between the SS coil/CIP pipe and the plastic lid? I was thinking of something similar to all the weldless bulkheads used for temp probes and drain valves on keggles? Any good ideas there?

3) I'm going to go with 20" temperature probes to get from the lid down to the center of the fermenter. Anyone see any reason why this would not be the best place to take the temperature?

4) Anyone have a good place to buy solenoid valves? I'm thinking of just grabbing a standard temp controller unless anyone knows of a cheap one that can handle 4 inputs and 4 outputs?

Thoughts?

Also, I found a 13 1/2" silicone o-ring on mcmaster I am going to use to get a more airtight seal from the lid.

Here's the best deal on SS tubing i found so far, they're have a ebay store where they offer 316 SS as well as different pricing.

http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/tubing-steel.php

Thanks for the link. Mcmaster is pretty close tothat pricing as well. I guess it depends on shipping ...

Sooo, before I spend a bunch of money on this, I think I'm going to set up a little test.

I think I'm going to measure the ambient air and the temperature of the fermentation and see if I truly need internal cooling or if I can just use a cold room to achieve the same thing. I'll log all the data to see what happens.

Thoughts?

Just an update to anyone who might actually be following this thread:

I BREWED LAST NIGHT!!!!!

Everything went pretty well. Brewed my first beer for a "customer" after a request.

I brewed 14 gallons of an American Wheat. My next door neighbors are having an aniversary party and really liked it when they came over to have some. They asked if I could make them a keg for the party. I thought it would be a perfect chance to use the new system.

I obviously wont be charging them as thats not legal......

Ragardless, everything went pretty well. My homemade false bottom worked which was slightly shocking as it is not pretty, haha. Ended up getting 78% efficency yeilding a 1.054 OG.

Putting 16 gallons of wort into a 55 gallon BK is hilarious btw. It barely fills up the bottom. Glad I placed my heating elements low. I'll let you all know how it tastes in 2 weeks (their party is on the 30th, I told them it might not be ready....). Good thing its a wheat and I dont have to worry about it being cloudy...

For the sprayball lid question, I would buy one extra lid and have the sprayball attached to that lid only. That way you can just move it from fermenter to fermenter and don't have another opening to contend with.

onthekeg said:

For the sprayball lid question, I would buy one extra lid and have the sprayball attached to that lid only. That way you can just move it from fermenter to fermenter and don't have another opening to contend with.

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. Thanks!

Cruelkix

Some thoughts

First of all you will need some extra cooling for your fermentors. 35 gallons of a normal beer will add 5-7 F if you move up to double that the heat will be too much especially on a big beer. Try 20 feet at 3/8.

Are you planning on leaving the coil in for the entire fermentation or will you remove it after day 4-5 when its not needed?

You need a 1in blow off tube. You cant stand to get a plugged blow off tube.

You are talking about double 40 gallon batches but for an 85 gallon fermentors you need more head space especially if you make some big beers.

Will your 20 in probe still be in the wort with only 70 gallon batch. I like the idea of it coming in from the top.

Aeration You should get an oxygen stone and an oxygen tank. aeration with oxygen will help 1 getting your wart started AND 2 cut down on the chance for an air born contamination

When you are pumping from your BK to the fermentors you will generate a huge amount of foam…. So you need to have your lid off ( at least loose) at that time

We are running (6)1 bb fermentors and brewing in a 55 gallon Brewmation kettle check out our build.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/squam-lakes-brewery-pictures-144764/

Nice build and thanks for posting it

Good luck

Boar Beer said:

First of all you will need some extra cooling for your fermentors. 35 gallons of a normal beer will add 5-7 F if you move up to double that the heat will be too much especially on a big beer. Try 20 feet at 3/8.

Click to expand...

Good to know.

Boar Beer said:

Are you planning on leaving the coil in for the entire fermentation or will you remove it after day 4-5 when its not needed?

Click to expand...

Yes, I would leave the coil in for the entire fermentation.

Boar Beer said:

You are talking about double 40 gallon batches but for an 85 gallon fermentors you need more head space especially if you make some big beers.

Click to expand...

Hve you messed around with Fermcap-s at all? I was planning on using that to allow me to not need a huge amount of head space? Also, there are a good couple of inches of head space between teh 85 gallon marker on teh tank and the actual lid. It could technically prob hold around 90 gallons.

Boar Beer said:

Will your 20 in probe still be in the wort with only 70 gallon batch. I like the idea of it coming in from the top.

Click to expand...

It should. The actually difference between 70 and 80 gallons is only an few inches. The 20" probe gets pretty well into the center of the tank. I can rest my arm on top of the tanks. So they are about 48" high, maybe a few more.

Boar Beer said:

Aeration You should get an oxygen stone and an oxygen tank. aeration with oxygen will help 1 getting your wart started AND 2 cut down on the chance for an air born contamination

Click to expand...

Totally agree. It is on my list of things to buy!!

Boar Beer said:

When you are pumping from your BK to the fermentors you will generate a huge amount of foam…. So you need to have your lid off ( at least loose) at that time

Click to expand...

Why would I generate foam from the BK to the fermenters? I dont generate any now when I pump over? Are you saying if I pump it in from the bottom up it will cause foaming? Usually I pump inot the top and let it fall in to get my a small amount of aeration.

Boar Beer said:

We are running (6)1 bb fermentors and brewing in a 55 gallon Brewmation kettle check out our build.

Click to expand...

Haha. I've read through you and your son's thread about a million times at least!! Awesome stuff. I've asked a few question in there as well. Thanks to you as well for sharing all the great info.


Thank you for all the helpful information. YOur experience with this size batches is hugely benificial to me

Craig

Foam

Its from aeration. when we made small batches with carboys we just used a funnel and swirled the wart. But with a big batch like what you are making and adding oxygen weather you go in the top or the bottom you will get a great deal of foam. Just be ready for it.

Buy the way you can burn the oxygenated foam with a match. Oxygen can be dangerous so be care full with it.

Boar Beer said:

Foam

Its from aeration. when we made small batches with carboys we just used a funnel and swirled the wart. But with a big batch like what you are making and adding oxygen weather you go in the top or the bottom you will get a great deal of foam. Just be ready for it.

Buy the way you can burn the oxygenated foam with a match. Oxygen can be dangerous so be care full with it.

Click to expand...

Gotcha. I was thinking that I would aerate in the fermenter. It will prob spill all over the top. Do you aerate "inline" as you transfer to the fermenter?

Yes we use an in line Oxygen aeration set up after the plate heat exchanger. (cold wart holds more oxygen than hot wart) I will try to send you a couple pictures.

Boar Beer said:

Yes we use an in line Oxygen aeration set up after the plate heat exchanger. (cold wart holds more oxygen than hot wart) I will try to send you a couple pictures.

Click to expand...

Thanks, you rock!

You can see the oxygenator with the silicon tubing we use to connect it to the Blichmann plate chiller.
In addition I have sent the picture of the double peristaltic pump which is the greatest work saving device you can have.

Boar Beer said:

You can see the oxygenator with the silicon tubing we use to connect it to the Blichmann plate chiller.
In addition I have sent the picture of the double peristaltic pump which is the greatest work saving device you can have.

Click to expand...

Where did you get the stone from and what size is it? .5 micron? How does it attach to the SS Tee? Most the ones I have seen don't have a threaded connection?

That pump looks like a boss. Where did you get and what kind of flow rates are you seeing from it?

subscribed

awesome

Boar Beer said:

(cold wart holds more oxygen than hot wart)

Click to expand...

Tht's only if you don't believe in hot side aeration....

Monster Mash said:

Tht's only if you don't believe in hot side aeration....

Click to expand...

Actually I believe he is referring to the fact that colder liquids have a higher capability to hold gases.

Solubility of gases in Water
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

I'll be following along as well. Looks great

Monster Mash said:

Tht's only if you don't believe in hot side aeration....

Click to expand...

control and repeatability is what i believe in

cruelkix said:

Where did you get the stone from and what size is it? .5 micron? How does it attach to the SS Tee? Most the ones I have seen don't have a threaded connection?

That pump looks like a boss. Where did you get and what kind of flow rates are you seeing from it?

Click to expand...

It came from More Beer http://morebeer.com/view_product/16613/102281/Stainless_in-line_Oxygenation_Assembly

This unit came all assembled you only need to connect the tubing.
Yes .5 micron and we follow the direction of abut 8 lb pressure for half the batch.

Let me check the pump. its old and came from a HBT member

Awesome, Craig! Do you plan to be exhibiting at GABF? I have a business trip out there (from CT) and i would love to see your setup when i'm out there, and try a few tasty brews.

Jason