Ideas for reducing costs

With the sky rocketing costs of hops and grains I thought a cost saving thread might be a good idea.

The more obvious ones include Group buys, or buying in bulk if you can't get a group together for your hops and grains purchases. Propagating yeast is another way but dried yeast is pretty cheap too.

Here are a couple I've thought about doing:

Hooking my gas burners up to a large propane tank where I can buy LP gas cheaper than in 20 lb, tanks and negotiate an additional discount for a large purchase plus buy at a time when demand is low and or prices are favorable.

I'm also going to go to a private water system for my cooling water. Most municipalities charge for water 2 times, 1 time for use and 1 time for wastewater treatment whether or not they break it out sometime people on septic tanks get a break. It takes a lot of water to brew so I see that as fairly large expense.

Facilitate a bulk buy in your area. Contact the local homebrew club for participants. Buy a whole pallet of grain for the best price & cheapest shipping. Hops & Chemicals ride for free and are at wholesale pricing.

As far as LP gas goes, you won't save much from having them refilled unless you go to the massive home tanks. Still you will pay by the gallon or pound. Too much hassle for what it's worth IMHO.

As far as water goes, look into recirculating chillers with ice and a pond pump.

You may want to check your water rates as the per gallon cost for municipal water is surprisingly low. Mine is 3 tenths of a cent per gallon for water, plus 3 tenths of a cent for sewage disposal. That makes my cost for water somewhere between a dime and a quarter for all the cleaning water I use to make my beer.

use more table sugar

Propane CAN be cheaper if you don't have to go out of your way to refill. I have a gas station at the end of the street that refills for $2.95/gal. My tank is 5 gallons, so I'm right at $15 versus the $25 for a trade. I like to further conserve this by using my kitchen gas stove to heat smaller quantities of water, i.e. mash out water. Then, I just do the big boil on my rig with LP.

StarSan can be conserved by using it in spray bottles; some people reuse if brewing frequently or store it for long periods of time. Me, I just use 1/2 oz. instead of 1 and slosh everything around, relying on the foam to come in contact with everything. (If you're a medical professional, you can jack iodophor from work )

Collecting the warm water from the output of the IC and using it for cleaning. Warm water is better for cleaning anyway.

Making starter wort by using last low gravity runoff after wort is completely run off the mash.

Reusing yeast cakes by washing trub and decanting.

Buy beverage and racking tubing from HD/ Lowe's.

Open fermentation. Don't spend money on yeast

I definitely agree that it's good to save some money here and there, but it makes sense to identify things that are actually costing you a lot and work on those first. For those using tap water (filtered or not), is the price of the water you use really a significant part of your batch cost? If, as Rich says, it is only costing you pennies per batch, is it really worth the effort to save a couple more cents?

The way I see it, the ingredients are by far the most expensive part of a given batch. Going AG (if you haven't already), buying grain/extract in bulk, buying hops in bulk, and culturing yeast can make a HUGE impact on your costs. Extract batches can easily top $30, all-grain batches can easily be down around $10-15, or less if you can get in on huge group buys on grain as EdWort mentions.

I store starsan and use it long enough that the per-batch cost for sanitizer is just pennies. Water costs me nothing where I live. Perhaps my biggest cost aside from the aforementioned ones is propane, but there's not much I can do about that other than pick a cheap enough place to get it filled.

By far my biggest expense for me so far, above all else, is buying new equipment, so I'd say controlling the addiction would be the biggest money-saver for me

ScubaSteve said:

StarSan can be conserved by using it in spray bottles; some people reuse if brewing frequently or store it for long periods of time. Me, I just use 1/2 oz. instead of 1 and slosh everything around, relying on the foam to come in contact with everything.

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Did you just arbitrarily decide to start mixing Starsan at half the recommended concentration, or are you talking about mixing up 2.5 gals at a time instead of 5 gal? Just wondering, since everyone makes a big deal about how starsan isn't effective unless mixed at the correct ratio.

Isn't it true that StarSan will not be effective after a week of storage?

Iordz said:

Isn't it true that StarSan will not be effective after a week of storage?

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No.

edit: Straight from the source...
http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?threadid=10932&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=2

Charlie Talley said:

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Star San is based on phosphoric acid, being an acid is is very friendly to s/s. When storing the use solution of Star San keep these things in mind. First it is still active as long as the pH is below 3, and the solution is clear. When the solution turns cloudy the soap in Star San has reacted with the mineral in the make-up water and has made the final solution useless. A good way of getting around this is to make up the Star San up with D.I. Water.[/FONT]

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It might make a difference to store it in a closed vs. open container, but if you were to monitor the pH you'd be fine anyway. I store all my starsan in closed bottles and a spare keg, and since I don't have pH test strips, I replace the solution every few batches, which costs me about 10 cents a gallon, which makes it cheap enough that I consider the cost negligible.

I don't know Ed you may be right. I stopped buying LP gas in bulk when it went above $1.25 a gallon because I discovered it was cheaper to heat my house with electricity.

But I use to get at least a 10% discount for buying in bulk and another 15-25% because I purchased in the off season when prices were low. Now you could also watch the market in addition to the off season.

In today's market that translates into a $0.75 to $1.05 per gallon discount.

Now granted I had to make a signifigant investment, buying a tank but that tank is now worth at least
2x what I paid for it or more. And buying in bulk. But I'm sittiing on 350 gallons I paid $0.82 a gallon for. It's worth around $1050 now. That more than paid for my tank.

Rich the Brewer said:

You may want to check your water rates as the per gallon cost for municipal water is surprisingly low. Mine is 3 tenths of a cent per gallon for water, plus 3 tenths of a cent for sewage disposal. That makes my cost for water somewhere between a dime and a quarter for all the cleaning water I use to make my beer.

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That's a good idea Rich. Here in the Atlanta area and the southeast water rates vary wildly while some areas are reasonable. Some areas are ridiculously expensive. If i wash my car and am careful with the water I notice a big increase in my water bill.
But with the drought down here nobody's is getting cheaper and the restrictions are becoming absurd. Of course this is something not everyone can do anything about.

For me, the two most expensive parts of my beers are grains and hops. I culture my own yeast (mainly because I actually find it to be fun) and don't pay for water. Ranking behind there somewhere is propane but Wal-Mart swaps tanks for just over $14 which is a decent deal from what I hear.

I brew "low hop" beers already, and plan to begin making bulk grain purchases later this year.

abracadabra said:

With the sky rocketing costs of hops and grains I thought a cost saving thread might be a good idea.

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I would look for high alpha acid hops. You'll use less. Nugget, Galena, Chinook.

You can also use the more obscure hops or go for rosemary or spruce for late addition aroma.

I was pulling out the rosemary and basil out of the garden a few weeks ago and I found the basil rather awesome smelling. I've always liked the rosemary, I just don't know of anybody who's made a beer with it recently. Rosemary is rather piney smelling. It might be a good Xmas beer.

:fro:

Here in S VT, a 20lb LP refill costs $11.20 ... tank swap is around $17

I actually bought a 40# tank (about $75) and get that filled during maple sugaring season.

I guess LP costs abt $1 or so per batch, so it is more than 5% of the cost of an AG batch.

Switching to all grain and repitching yeast help costs...

My savings will increase when I get that barley crusher for Christmas and I can finally justift that 55 pound sack

For me:

~Bulk grain purchases with the local HB club ($25-$35 per 55# sack).

~Save on shipping - When ordering stuff on line, get what you need and then add the things you will need, just up to the point where a second box for shipping is required. (No need in paying $13.00 for 2 - 5 pounds bags of crystal, when a third bag and some yeast & hops can hitch a free ride.)

~Two Propane tanks – Run one completely dry before filling to avoid paying a fill cost for a tank that is still 20% full.

~Look for suitable (cheaper) substitutes for items in your local grocery store like: Flaked Oats (quick oats), Demera Sugar (pure brown cane sugar), Gelatin (gelatin).

~Develop an appreciation for Mild Browns, Wits, Belgian Blondes and other low hopped beers.

~Brew more session beers…

Put off buying angle grinders.

ScubaSteve has it right. Propane is cheapest if you go to a bulk supplier. Check you local area for the largest supplier & bring your tanks to them for filling. Look for a supplier that trucks the propane out to people that have the large home heating propane tanks. These suppliers also sell regulators & other parts cheap. They are also very knowledgeable. Remember Hank Hill?

My bulk propane ends up being more expensive than filling 20 lb. tanks, because of the delivery charge. Almost no seasonal variation either.
Water: the monthly base fee is $12/ month. Actual usage: $3.60

If I was looking to cut my costs, a grain mill and buying by the bag would be the next step. Although it would be very difficult to build rodent-safe grain storage. The local critters can chew through drywall, plywood and plastic bins.

My biggest saving has to be: Stop buying brewing equipment!

BrianP said:

Put off buying angle grinders.

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There's a scary truth to that... I needed to pick up a bunch of crap yesterday from Home Depot to re-caulk my bathroom. Totally aloof to the "mundane happenings of the world" I didn't realize why it was so damn busy (Black Friday)... Standing in line for 35 minutes, that angle grinder was looking like a better and better deal every moment.

I decided to hold off though, I've got a Christmas party coming up and need more Corny's.

Old_Brewer said:

Remember Hank Hill?

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Ain't he the guy that sells "Popcorn and Popcorn accessories"? (King of the Hill - "Meet the Manger Babies")

ScubaSteve said:

Propane CAN be cheaper if you don't have to go out of your way to refill. I have a gas station at the end of the street that refills for $2.95/gal. My tank is 5 gallons, so I'm right at $15 versus the $25 for a trade.

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I think this depends on where you live. I agree fully with the "out of your way" point, but from everything I've read, I can't see refilling to be cheaper. Paying $25 for a tank swap sucks, Wal-Mart swaps tanks for $14.95. I've yet to check out the prices for Southern States but I'm not sure they'd be able to profitably refill tanks for much less than that in small volume.

I don't think anybody's mentioned dry yeast yet. If you use dry yeast and then wash it or pitch on the cake, you're down to pennies per batch in yeast costs very quickly.

Also, use less honey, spices, and specialty ingredients. Those items tend to be very expensive.

For the Little amount your saving in bulk grain you still have to store it. Buying steel grain box is just not worth the saving by buying in bulk. My way of thinking is that home brew is cheaper and better then buying commercial beer.

This is just a good cheap hobbie.

bandit77 said:

For the Little amount your saving in bulk grain you still have to store it.

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Uncracked grain will keep for a long time (up to a year) with no special treatment. Simply throw it in a plastic bin or bucket and put a lid on it.

You only need a steel box if you've got rats.

Other's on this forum have reported savings from group bulk grains purchases of 50%.

BrianP said:

Put off buying angle grinders.

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Crossed off the list a long time ago...

bandit77 said:

For the Little amount your saving in bulk grain you still have to store it. Buying steel grain box is just not worth the saving by buying in bulk. My way of thinking is that home brew is cheaper and better then buying commercial beer.

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An $18 aluminum trash can will hold 3 bags of grain just fine (165 lbs.). They stay nice & shiny too.

My Haus Ale cost $7.85 per 5 gallon batch. Not only do save a considerable amount of money, but more importantly I save a great deal in time and gas money.

While I love going to the LHBS just to impulse buy, it's a minimum of 2 hours out of a Saturday to do so, plus at least $10 in gasoline for the round trip.

Because I have bulk grain, hops & yeast, I can brew many different beers, well, right now if I feel like it. The freedom and savings in time, gas, and money are well worth buying bulk IMHO.

Screw it man, it must be the end of times. I am just going to keep living as decadently as ever.

Sanitize your carboys with Iodophor and when you get one siphon the solution into an empty one to sit until something needs racked into that one. I only do this if something else is already in primary though b/c that stuff will lose its effectiveness eventually. This saves sanitizer and of course water although water is very cheap.

Also using high alpha hops that are obscure for bittering would be a huge cost cutter. As long as you calculate the IBUs correctly it won't change the flavor of your tried and true recipes very much if only used for bittering, but I guess you have to break down and use the old favorites for flavor additions if you want consistancy b/c that will show, but I plan on doing alot of experinmenting with hops when my supply that was purchased b4 the shortage runs out. And BTW I did not panic buy, I'm still working on hops I bought b4 I even knew of a shortage.

This one is going to sound obvious, but nobody has mentioned it yet. Fine tune your mashing process for maximum efficiency.

Try U-Haul for your propane. They charge by the gallon, not a flat fee. I just payed $16 for an empty cylinder vs. $27 at Lowes.
Also try local hardware stores for supplies. The mega stores are always more expensive for tubing, fittings and small pieces. And the people in the store can actually help you.

D*Bo said:

Try U-Haul for your propane. They charge by the gallon, not a flat fee. I just payed $16 for an empty cylinder vs. $27 at Lowes.

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The U-Haul I use is quite a drive and the people there are a PIA to deal with. Fortunatly, Lowes is 4 minutes away and they charge $16.99 for a swap. I save about 2 hours in the process plus about $8 in gas.

The Simplest way to reduce costs is to brew a style of beer that requires less ingredients and less expensive ingrediets.

I supper hopped up multi malt IPA is going to be a lot more expensive than a Scottish style bitter or a mild.

EdWort said:

An $18 aluminum trash can will hold 3 bags of grain just fine (165 lbs.). They stay nice & shiny too.

My Haus Ale cost $7.85 per 5 gallon batch. Not only do save a considerable amount of money, but more importantly I save a great deal in time and gas money.

While I love going to the LHBS just to impulse buy, it's a minimum of 2 hours out of a Saturday to do so, plus at least $10 in gasoline for the round trip.

Because I have bulk grain, hops & yeast, I can brew many different beers, well, right now if I feel like it. The freedom and savings in time, gas, and money are well worth buying bulk IMHO.

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I live next to a lake so high humidity is a problem. Mold is a consern to me as to storing grians. In the winter months I don`t see a problem. But the rest of the year I think mold will be a problem. For me their`s no saving by throwing out half bag of grain because of mold.

I don`t brew that much in order to build a special humidity controlled storing room or a freezer for grains.

But I`m looking for a cheaper Ideal if anybody has any comments.

sorta playing devil's advocate, but seems like a lot of folks don't mind wasting water. Sure, it may be cheap (or free) where you are but that doesn't change the global budget. I use a regular one-way chiller and can't help but cringe at all the water I waste in the process, especially in summer. Where I live now, we are charged a flat rate for water (which, like others have said, is super duper cheap) BUT our sewer costs are based on the quantity of water we use and THAT price is super high. I've only been brewing about once every two months and I notice a HUGE spike in water use I can attribute to chill water. For y'all looking to be really cheap, I challenge you to try and be super EFFICIENT. I'm liking eds suggestion of having a pond to circulate water - an ornamental goldfish pond would work and you'd already have the pump if you use a filter in the pond. Also, for star-san reusers (this is what I think I'll do) we can fill carboys, buckets, etc. with chill waste water and treat with sanitizer to be used whenever. Last brew I used my chill water to wash everything since I was done with most of the equipment. Anyway, sure $$ hits us in the pocket, but we should consider the resources that will, likely in our lifetimes, show a serious cost increase. Propane shopane.

mm

bandit77 said:

I live next to a lake so high humidity is a problem. Mold is a consern to me as to storing grians. In the winter months I don`t see a problem. But the rest of the year I think mold will be a problem. For me their`s no saving by throwing out half bag of grain because of mold.

I don`t brew that much in order to build a special humidity controlled storing room or a freezer for grains.

But I`m looking for a cheaper Ideal if anybody has any comments.

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I weigh out my usual recipes in 5 gallon batch sizes and put them in foodsaver bags. Makes for an easy brewday and humidity in the garage is not a problem.

Anyone toast there own grains? I've never done it but you'd figure you could cut down the cost of specialty grains if you toasted them yourself.

Something that has yet to be mentioned is purchasing some hops rhizomes. Growing a high alpha acid hops along with a universal flavor/aroma hops could save you $5-$10/batch. I plan on planting some come springtime.

A lot of folks mentioned high alpha acid hops as a route to savings. It should be noted that high alpha acid hops are the ones effected the most by low availability and subsequently rising prices (if you can get them at all).

No one has mentioned that money can be saved outside of the brew room in order to sustain the brew room at status quo. Think of your household as an organization and the brew room as the production floor. Trim the fat throughout the organization to keep the brew room at full capacity.

I will eat Ramen and turn my thermostat down another 10º to keep drinking my homebrew as is.

Think outside the box people. What's more important driving to work or beer?

brew beers with corn and/or rice.

Some of the ways we looked at saving water in another thread was to:
Use the water to fill your clothes and or dish washing machine, Bath tub, sinks.

And like Man said filling buckets for cleanup and sanitation. Also those buckets of water could be used to wash your car.

Anyone with access to a swimming pool could recirculate that water.

Something I'd thought about was hooking the exhaust hose of the chiller to a water sprinkler to water the garden or lawn. I was thinking that spraying the water up into the air might cool it down enough. Plus having a sprinkler would put a little bit of restriction on the flow thru the cooler & by slowing it down it might increase the efficiency. I don't really know but it's worth a shot.

I tried growing hops this year but they failed. A combination of the drought and a series of mistakes on my part. I plan to try it again next spring.

EdWort said:

I weigh out my usual recipes in 5 gallon batch sizes and put them in foodsaver bags. Makes for an easy brewday and humidity in the garage is not a problem.

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wow :rockin: that should work.

Thank

Foodsaver bags - does that require special equipment ?