EinGutesBier
Well-Known Member
I have some PBW that I use for cleaning (the surfaces are usually already cleaned off), but since I have a limited amount, is it possible to reuse it?
Reuse PBW?
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Not that I know of, but if you are looking for a cheaper alternative, you can try OxyClean
MrFebtober
Well-Known Member
I'm no authority on the subject, but I re-use the same PBW solution several times. It's too expensive to use just once and still has plenty of cleaning power. I recently used the same 5 gallons of PBW to sequentially clean my kettle, then a cornie, then a second cornie, and then some misc brew stuff. I just soaked and then dumped to the next vessel. I certainly made the most of that 6 oz. of PBW!
jdoiv
Well-Known Member
Yeah, if you are cleaning several things within a few days it works fine. The dirtier the solution gets though, the less effective it will be. I'll use the same 7 gallons to clean my MLT, Kettle, IC, hoses, a corny or two and misc. stuff. I'll then save about 3 gallons in a bucket and use to clean things off until the next brew session. It's best to rinse everything as well as you can before adding the pbw solution though so it lasts longer.
I've had this question for a while and this thread motivated me to find an answer. I sent an email to 5 Star yesterday and got the following response:
Glibbidy
Well-Known Member
I have found that a little goes a long way myself. When I'm cleaning carboys, or kegs, I usually recycle the solution 2 to 3 times in the same cleaning session before discarding it. i.e. fill one carboy with solution, clean, rack solution to carboy number two, and so on and so forth....
Same process works well with iodophor as well.
Same process works well with iodophor as well.
NYShooterGuy
Well-Known Member
I've been using the same 5 gallons of mixed PBW for the last 10 months. It cleans, removes the sugary residue, and makes my kegs, lines, plastic and silicone equipment clean. Once it gets enough particles in it from say, removing labels from bottles, I dump it.
3 pounds of homemade PBW lasted me 6 years. And I brew a lot, and thus clean a lot too. I reuse, of course, and rarely make 5 gallon solutions of it.
The oxygen fleets within hours, but the remaining 70% washing soda / 30% metasilicate mixture is very potent, especially when hot. Besides, IMO the oxygen "power" is heavily overrated, it just looks good on TV.
I also just use washing soda.
The oxygen fleets within hours, but the remaining 70% washing soda / 30% metasilicate mixture is very potent, especially when hot. Besides, IMO the oxygen "power" is heavily overrated, it just looks good on TV.
I also just use washing soda.
The oxygen boost comes from the formation of hydrogen peroxide, an excellent cleaner that attacks organic matter.
If you make your own, you can just add additional sodium percarbonate for the oxy-boost.
Otherwise its still a great cleaning agent when its flat.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I find it you splurge for a larger amount of pwb in bulk online its cheaper than buying the small heavily marked up home brewing portions in the local stores..
Agreed. I recently pulled the trigger on a 50lb pail of it and it came out to about $3.50/lb. I reuse my PBW, so this should last me pretty much forever.
Homemade from (generic) Oxiclean and TSP/90 at a ratio of 70%/30% comes in under $2 a pound. With (almost) pure Sodium Percarbonate and TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) at the same ratio, around $2.00-3.00 a pound.
I have considered making my own, but I have heard that the 70/30 mix of oxy and TSP/90 is close, but isn't as good as the real thing. Between that and the lack of needing to weigh and properly mix the DIY PBW makes the extra 1-1.50 more justified IMHO. Besides, I could have gotten my 50lb pail for cheaper, had I been willing to wait for a better deal (which I will be doing for the eventual re-purchase).
I just did the math on the DIY PBW recipe posted here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/homemade-pbw-recipe.467655/
Using these links:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J5HGBZM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BHIS5MO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015WT148/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
OxiClean Free: Total for 12lbs $44.74 (Recipe calls for 6lbs, so $22.37)
Red Devil TSP/90: Total for the 4lb bag is $20.30
7th Generation (the missing part of your 70/30 mix): 2pk is $19.08, so $9.54 for the recipe
Total for the 12.5lb recipe in the link: $52.21 or $4.17/lb
If I get the cheaper 'pure' sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IXYHVI4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075ZLZW9G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
$35/15lbs ($14 for the 6lbs needed) of the percarbonate
$33.75/15lbs ($9 for the 4lbs needed) of the metasilicate
(+ the 7th Gen dishwashing powder)
Then it drops the cost to 2.60/lb with enough to make 25lbs (for $65.08).
The only problem I see here is the lack of the building agent, sodium carbonate, when substituting the oxi with the percarbonate.
Using these links:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J5HGBZM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BHIS5MO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015WT148/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
OxiClean Free: Total for 12lbs $44.74 (Recipe calls for 6lbs, so $22.37)
Red Devil TSP/90: Total for the 4lb bag is $20.30
7th Generation (the missing part of your 70/30 mix): 2pk is $19.08, so $9.54 for the recipe
Total for the 12.5lb recipe in the link: $52.21 or $4.17/lb
If I get the cheaper 'pure' sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IXYHVI4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075ZLZW9G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
$35/15lbs ($14 for the 6lbs needed) of the percarbonate
$33.75/15lbs ($9 for the 4lbs needed) of the metasilicate
(+ the 7th Gen dishwashing powder)
Then it drops the cost to 2.60/lb with enough to make 25lbs (for $65.08).
The only problem I see here is the lack of the building agent, sodium carbonate, when substituting the oxi with the percarbonate.
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Percabonate is approx 50-60% of oxi so you would use it at a lesser rate. The remainder is sodium carbonate. If you search soda ash instead, its the exact same thing but cheaper.
Also, 5lb bag of Tetrasodium EDTA as a chelate will last you forever as it's about 3-4% of the blend. If you have a brew buddy, it would be a good item to share. I'm fortunate to have a few brew-buddies.
I buy the ingredients individually but I also use them for other cleaners around the house. And wife's hobby is making skin care and cosmetics, so there is some cross-over of supplies which is nice.
Real PBW also contains a small % of Sodium or Potassium EDTA, which is a sequestering agent for metal ions, and some sort of surfactant.
We split those 50 lb pails of PBW at our group buys, they run around $4 a pound that way, IIRC, including shipping and the shop's markup. You did very well with your $3.50!
You won't be back for more for quite a few years. The working solution can be reused, alas without the O2 being present. If you really need the O2 action, toss in a fresh scoop of Oxiclean Free (odor free) or some generic.
Throw some dried desiccant packs in that pail and scoop a pound or so out into a small container for daily use, keeping the big bucket sealed the rest of the time. The stuff is hygroscopic, and when damp loses the O2 slowly. You know when it's damp when it loses its granular structure and starts to get fluffy, resembling popped rice bits.
Enjoy, it's marvelous stuff!
The 7th Generation version has nothing to do with real PBW. It is NOT a PBW clone, it's an entirely different formulation adding tons of NaCl (table salt) and Citric Acid. I never had the urge to try it.
I used to get TSP/90 at Ace Hardware for $16 a 4 pound bag. Maybe the price has been creeping up.
Sodium Carbonate (aka "washing soda") is what's left after the O2 splits off the Percarbonate ion. No need to add Sodium Carbonate, it forms by itself. Or just add a % of washing soda to cut the extra strength PBW.
Yes, right now I’m soaking a keg, then it will go to delabeling and soaking bottles.
Travesty! What a waste of good PBW!
After a good rinse out and the hot PBW shake-soak-shake-invert-soak method I may stick my long handled brush in the keg and scrub the inside. The PBW gets then stored for other cleanup. But I'm way too cheap to waste it on delabeling bottles...
When I needed bottles they got delabeled by soaking in a storage tote filled with water and a scoop of laundry detergent. The cheap stuff, like Surf. Laundry detergent is mostly washing soda anyway. Since I started kegging 6 years ago I don't do a lot of bottling anymore, maybe 3-4 cases a year worth, if that. I may get back into that though for Belgian Dark Strongs, Saisons, Sours, etc. Something about bottle conditioning in 750s that's hard to beat.
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I’m sure most brewers do the following:
Clean their hlt, mt, and bk with pbw at the beginning of their brew day then reuse it at the end.
I’ve done it a bunch of times (reuse PBW). I view it as cleaning one big thing where you know you’re going to clean it again at the beginning of the next brew session so it’s like why not
Clean their hlt, mt, and bk with pbw at the beginning of their brew day then reuse it at the end.
I’ve done it a bunch of times (reuse PBW). I view it as cleaning one big thing where you know you’re going to clean it again at the beginning of the next brew session so it’s like why not
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Why would you clean clean equipment?
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