Short lager time?

I'm planning to transfer my pilsner from primary to secondary soon. I had planned to lager in the secondary for 3 months, but I was talking to a fellow brewing compadre who said he recently heard some of the experts, including Ray Daniels, say you can lager for only 6 weeks in the primary with no diacetyl rest and apparently little to no discernable taste difference. Has anyone else heard this? I'm fermenting and lagering at 50 deg farenheit.

Some brewers can lager for six weeks, and it works out fine. It depends on your grains, your yeast, your karma, etc. However, holding a beer at 50F is not lagering. You need to lager at around 34F.


TL

2nd that, fermentation at 50 sounds good depending on your yeast, lagering is really just above freezing in my limited book.

According to how to brew the lager temp should be 5-8C less than fermentation temp. And you can lager for 3-4 weeks at 7C, just that the cooler temps are more 'traditional' and it may give a slightly better/clearer beer. Page 104.

it really depends on the yeast, i think. i have a friend that made a 30 day lager that was amazing. take a sample...does it need a diacetyl rest? i'd say put it at room temperature for few days, then cold crash it. you do want to lager colder than that if possible.

Lagering times depend on the wort more than anything. The higher the OG and the more dextrinous the wort, the longer the lagering time.

I'm fermenting a czech pilsner right now....I'm in week 2 of fermentation with 2 weeks being my schedule and 6 weeks of lagering at close to freezing as I can get...as far as a diacetyl rest, to me, the only way to tell is to taste it....I do everything at about 50F and I never had to do a "d" rest...sure you'll make more yeasties with warmer temps, but have you ever smelled the starter....yuck...I can't see putting that stuff in my beer...I'd rather do the starter around 50....then it smells like beer......2 weeks to do their thing, and then rack into a secondary if you want......and lager as usual

Zack said:

I'm fermenting a czech pilsner right now....I'm in week 2 of fermentation with 2 weeks being my schedule and 6 weeks of lagering at close to freezing as I can get...as far as a diacetyl rest, to me, the only way to tell is to taste it....I do everything at about 50F and I never had to do a "d" rest...sure you'll make more yeasties with warmer temps, but have you ever smelled the starter....yuck...I can't see putting that stuff in my beer...I'd rather do the starter around 50....then it smells like beer......2 weeks to do their thing, and then rack into a secondary if you want......and lager as usual

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Lager yeast don't really produce diacetyl, esters, etc. near the end of fermention. Only at the beginning/growth phase. However, I try to do my lager starters at primary fermentation temps just for as much flavor consistency as possible and to keep the yeast used to fermenting at those temps, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary... especially if you decant off the beer from the starter.

I just checked my recipe for my CherrBerr Lager, that I made earlier this year. The recipe is posted in the fruit beer section. I only lagered it for 22 days, in the secondary, at 35* to 40*. It turned out awesome. So, a short lagering time can be done. The main idea of lagering is the lower temps, over a period of time.

Good Luck

I did bring the secondary out of the lagering room, for 3 days, prior to bottling. I just put it in my dining room, which was about 68* - 70*.

I am the compadre he is talking about. I was listening to the "Jamil Show" on The Brewing Network. It as the June 30 Vienna Lager episode with Dr. Scott and Ray Daniels at the AHA in Cincy. Both Dr. Scott and Mr. Daniels had discussed the process of not moving the beer to secondary and letting it sit at fermentation temps until you are ready to keg. The theory is that the yeast will continue to work at the lower temps, just slower reducing any sulfur or diacetyl you may get. Once your 6-8 week fermentation is done you are ready to keg. While I have never tried this, it is an interesting concept. I may give it a try in the future, along with the olive oil thing.