Rant about Hoptech

I don't know, maybe I'm just not a people person but it seems like everyone is pissing me off lately. My Vette is in the shop and the mechanic is taking his sweet time, I'm selling a snowmobile trailer because I don't have a truck anymore to pull it with and I keep getting people wanting to trade me for fishing boats. What, can't you people read? I can't pull it, so why would I want it?...

Anyways I brewed BM's Centennial Blonde using all and only homegrown hops. It seems that the IBU's are really low so I went online and ordered some Iso-Alpha acid extract to bitter it up a bit. I ordered this from Hoptech and while I was on there I seen that they had Nottingham yeast. So I ordered 6 packs of it. I got the email saying that my order went thru and it all looked good. About 4 days later (last night) I get my order in the mail. Upon opening it I find that they DO NOT have Nottingham and replaced it with Windsor yeast. Never did they say anything to me about changing it nor did the site say that they did not have the Notty. The shipper says "Danstar Nottingham/Windsor ale yeast. They don't even have Windsor listed on their site.
I sent them an email stating that I was upset about getting something I did not want and that I will never order anything from them again.
If I ordered a prime rib and they brought me a cheese burger do you thing I would be happy?

I would contest the charge. You don't have to pay for anything you did not order.

Ask them to refund it first, if they don't take it up with your credit card.

Yeah, Notty and Windsor are NOT interchangeable!

what's the difference between windsor and notty again?

uglygoat said:

what's the difference between windsor and notty again?

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Danstar Windsor ale yeast originates in England. This yeast produces a beer which is estery to both palate and nose with a slight fresh yeasty flavor. These are usually described as full-bodied, fruity English ales. Depending on the substrate, the Windsor demonstrates moderate attenuation which will leave a relatively high gravity (density). Windsor yeast has found great acceptance in producing strong tasting bitter beers, stouts, weizen and hefe weizen.

The Nottingham strain was selected for its highly flocculant (precipitating) and relatively full attenuation (transforming sugar into alcohol) properties. It produces low concentrations of fruity and estery aromas and has been described as neutral for an ale yeast, allowing the full natural flavor of malt to develop. Good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures, 14 °C (57 °F), allow this strain to brew lager-style beer.

Now, to be fair, there's been a shortage of Notty due I think to some issue with the packaging, it's been really hard to get.

But, they absolutely should have contacted you and offered the substitute (or to cancel that part of the order). Strikes me as ignorance on their part to think that you wouldn't mind the substitution. I think some people are surprised how exact some of us can be when it comes to the ingredients we use; I've wondered whether some old timers just think in the context of "hell, it's beer yeast, what difference does it make?"

EdWort said:

I would contest the charge. You don't have to pay for anything you did not order.

Ask them to refund it first, if they don't take it up with your credit card.

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I would but for like $12 it's not worth it. I'll use the yeast (altough I'm not a fan of it) for something mybe a brown or ESB. I was thinking that just maybe they had some Notty stuck away. I guess not.

The Pol said:

Yeah, Notty and Windsor are NOT interchangeable!

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Yeah they may as well sent me a Heff yeast.

FSR402 said:

I would but for like $12 it's not worth it.

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If it's not worth it to contact them to resolve the issue, it's not worth bitching about in public.

I'm getting sick of threads bashing companies for errors without first asking them to rectify the situation.

I had a similar problem about a year ago. HopTech had some Cascades pellets listed on the site, so I ordered some. I got the confirmation email and all that jazz. When the shipment showed up, there were Centennial hops in the box, not Cascades. There had been no advance word from HopTech.

When I called the guy up, he tried to convince me that Centennial were the same as Cascades. Then, he tried to convince me Centennial were better, so I should be all happy with his substitution. Finally, he just said "remind me about this next time you order, and I'll throw some free hops in there or something." Yeah, next time.

I used to order from HopTech all the time. Then, Garetz sold the place or something several years ago, and I have had a problem with every order since then. Each time, I get an empty apology from them. For some reason, I try again every few years, but I just don't see the reason to try again.

Go ahead and ask HopTech to fix the situation, but don't expect much.


TL

JustDave said:

If it's not worth it to contact them to resolve the issue, it's not worth bitching about in public.

I'm getting sick of threads bashing companies for errors without first asking them to rectify the situation.

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I emailed then 3 pm their time and I have yet to hear back.

I emailed then 3 pm their time and I have yet to hear back.

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Just my tuppence, but I'd wait to actually get a response before skewering them in public. We've all had shoddy experiences with retailers over the years (not just homebrew suppliers), and I can's say that I've ever really been compelled to tar n' feather any of them on an internet forum. Emails get lost in spam filters- and it's the price of doing business in the internet age. Take the direct approach and call them directly.

last time i was in bells (kalamazoo,mi) they had plenty of notty like more than a whole vender pack ,picked six

They should fix it because you didn't get what you ordered. If they don't refund your money or exchange the item, your credit card company will refund the portion of the order because they violated the terms of their contract with the card processor by charging you for a sale without your agreement (they don't have your signature on a receipt proving you accepted the charges for the goods delivered).

If you end up keeping it (I doubt they would bother with a return) use the Windsor on an IPA.

have you tried calling? I've used HopTech a couple times - the shipper messed up my address and it got sent back to HopTech. Dan sent it out immediately overnight and didn't charge me for any of the shipping.

I've always had no problems calling and talking to Dan...

I got a reply and he never even mentions doing anything to "fix" the problem.

Hi Troy, Thank you for your order, We have always carried Nottingham which
is made by Danstar, my supplier subs Windsor for Nottingham, which they
claim is simalar( actually they claim its better) Yes its a different yeast
but that is the sub they send me. I've been trying to but Nottingham for a
couple of months now, what they also tell me ( 2 suppliers say the same)
that Danstar makes 1 yeast at a time & this time of year they are making
Windsor, latter they will make nottingham. Does not sound correct to me I'm
just quoting the wholesaler. Most people are very happy with it, You are
correct I should have changed my web site. This was supposed to temporary
sub, so far just Windsor. Sorry for the problem Thanks again Dan H.T.

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So what we have here is someone selling things he knows nothing about and I see his reps either don't know jack or they just tell him what he wants to hear so he will sell their stuff, not knowing the difference.
I also see he pulled the "actually they claim its better" deal with me too. Sounds like the same BS they pulled with Texlaw.

Pretty lame ass answer to me. Who cares what his supplier does. YOU ordered Nottingham, NOT Windsor.

I'd reply and tell him to refund the Windsor and issue a UPS pickup for it. Very poor excuse, very poor.

EdWort said:

Pretty lame ass answer to me. Who cares what his supplier does. YOU ordered Nottingham, NOT Windsor.

I'd reply and tell him to refund the Windsor and issue a UPS pickup for it. Very poor excuse, very poor.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

I have a bad analogy. You went to the Toyota dealer got a Toyota Camry. Two weeks later, they called and said your car was in. You get there, and it's a Toyota Tundra. You say, "Well, that's NOT what I ordered, and it's NOT what I wanted.". My answer? "But it's BETTER! The Toyota Company said so, and I'm only a puppet to them. It's made by the same company, so it'll be exactly the same. Oh, maybe not the same gas mileage (attenuation), but otherwise the same! Even Better!"

YooperBrew said:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

I have a bad analogy. You went to the Toyota dealer got a Toyota Camry. Two weeks later, they called and said your car was in. You get there, and it's a Toyota Tundra. You say, "Well, that's NOT what I ordered, and it's NOT what I wanted.". My answer? "But it's BETTER! The Toyota Company said so, and I'm only a puppet to them. It's made by the same company, so it'll be exactly the same. Oh, maybe not the same gas mileage (attenuation), but otherwise the same! Even Better!"

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LOL... In my reply to him I used the " I orderd a steak and you gave me chicken. Sure I love chiken and I'm sure some will say "it's better" but it's still NOT what I ordered."

I also said that'm I'm not going to worry about the $12 and the yeast I didn't want. it's just not worth it to me I guess, but maybe if I keep brewing over it I'll change my mind and make him take it back. I also said that I will look elsewhere for my brewing needs.

Well, Ive never ordered from them, but if that is their attitude toward their customers, I WON'T be ordering from them. Its my beer, I know what I want to make it happen -your opinion as to one ingredient being better than the other will get nowhere with me, unless I asked for your advice.
I have had some great experiences with certain suppliers, and they get my repeat business.

Yep, sounds like the same stuff, alright. So much for HopTech.


TL

That response makes me cringe for two reasons. First the guy is blatantly shipping the incorrect product to people without warning. Second, holy crap the grammar is poor in that email. I am of the mindset that business email should be proper and at LEAST spell checked. I guess "latter" is technically a word, but come on. Grammar, people.

TexLaw said:

...When the shipment showed up, there were Centennial hops in the box, not Cascades...

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Now that's the kind of mistake I could learn to live with...

Looks like I got thru to him at least and stopped the next guy from having the same problem.

Hi Troy, Thank you for the info, now I know that my supplier is not as
knowledgeable as they claim, I have always sold Nottingham & I have
personnaly never used Windsor. Makes sense that they would be different.
Yesterday I did recieve another order for nottingham & I did call him about
Windsor. I do not make the changes to the web but I'm going to get it
changed. I'm Sorry you feel the way you do about H.T. we do have some
great products. If you want to send the yeast back I will credit you & pay
for the shipping. There is no nottingham available at any of my vendors.
Thanks Dan

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I'm just going to keep the yeast and maybe see if anyone in my brew club wants to trade something for it.

I'm sure the guy's a nice guy and all but he really needs to know what he's selling.
I wont be getting anything else from him again though.

YooperBrew said:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

I have a bad analogy. You went to the Toyota dealer got a Toyota Camry. Two weeks later, they called and said your car was in. You get there, and it's a Toyota Tundra. You say, "Well, that's NOT what I ordered, and it's NOT what I wanted.". My answer? "But it's BETTER! The Toyota Company said so, and I'm only a puppet to them. It's made by the same company, so it'll be exactly the same. Oh, maybe not the same gas mileage (attenuation), but otherwise the same! Even Better!"

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Yeah, that is a bad analogy. If I paid for a Camry and ended up with a Tundra, I'd be pretty stoked.

yea that reply really is a bucket o chum. i didn't know the difference between the two ales, but after a 30 second reading ed's description of both, i wouldn't try and pass them off as interchangeable. skewer on...

I was told by a HBS owner yesterday that his supplier told him Nottingham will back very shortly. So take that for whatever it's worth.

I spoke with the folks at Danstar and Nottingham is shipping to the distributors next week, so retailers should have it by mid October if all goes well.

McKBrew said:

Yeah, that is a bad analogy. If I paid for a Camry and ended up with a Tundra, I'd be pretty stoked.

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Why? There is considerable overlap in retail pricing on Camrys and Tundras so it not like you are getting something worth more. But you will have a vehicle that gets worse fuel economy, does not as nice, costs more to insure and is more difficult for passengers to get in and out of. Plus with todays market the Tundra will be worth less for resale. Sounds like a bargain to me!!????

Nope, I'd be pissed about the Tundra and I'd be pissed about the Windsor also. If I ordered 1 or 2 packs then I might consider ignoring the problem, but with 6 packets of a yeast I didn't want I would expect replacement or at the very least reimbursement.

Craig

If he had any sense of customer satisfaction he should of offered a refund and let you keep the yeast or arranged collection.

I think the OP was right in sharing the info.

FSR402 said:

I also said that'm I'm not going to worry about the $12 and the yeast I didn't want. it's just not worth it to me I guess.

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To me it's the principle. First he charged you $2 a pack when most are selling it for $1.25 to $1.50 a pack. Second he substituted it without permission.

He'll have Nottingham in stock in a couple weeks (hopefully). Tell him to ship you what you ordered when it comes in and to issue a UPS call tag for the stuff you did not order. Most likely, he'll say keep it as it will cost him more than it's worth to have it shipped back. Then you can pass out the Windsor at your brewclub.

NOTTY IS BACK!!!!!!


I stopped by my LHBS to get some honey and yeast for a mead and there was a bag od Notty sitting there. It was not even opened yet so I ripped it open and bought 6 packs.

EdWort said:

To me it's the principle. First he charged you $2 a pack when most are selling it for $1.25 to $1.50 a pack. Second he substituted it without permission.

He'll have Nottingham in stock in a couple weeks (hopefully). Tell him to ship you what you ordered when it comes in and to issue a UPS call tag for the stuff you did not order. Most likely, he'll say keep it as it will cost him more than it's worth to have it shipped back. Then you can pass out the Windsor at your brewclub.

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I would do that but I had already told him that I would keep it, and that was my word so I'm not going to go back on it.
He also charged me $1.75 per pack the $12 was a guess.

Having been to hoptech in person, I was quite dissapointed in how bad his stock was. Many items he had listed on the website such as better bottles he said he has not carried in years. They where not very helpfull, luckly now I live blocks away from more beerr riverside, which seams to have more instock the morebeer online, tons of hops good price notty all the time.

Just an FYI, If anyone happens to read this thread....HopTech has new ownership. Now owned by brewers. No more shipping or substitution issues. Just voted best homebrew shop in Nor Cal by Northwest Brewing news poll. Check them out!

LOL nobody would have seen this 3 year old negative thread until you bumped it to the top of the forum.... Here's to hoping they make it page 4!!

stubbornman said:

LOL nobody would have seen this 3 year old negative thread until you bumped it to the top of the forum.... Here's to hoping they make it page 4!!

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Yeah I forgot all about this thread. But thanks for the update. Maybe I'll give the new owners a shot.